Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[TageGod]

I really like Peterka, particularly his speed and ability to create off the rush. His shot is also very good. But, you have to give to get.

Reinhart's shot was not very good for the first few seasons, but his net front ability was incredible. Reinhart didn't have that ability when he entered the league, but learned it out of necessity.

So while I like Peterka's goal scoring ability, to come into the league without a skill like tipping pucks (which isn't easy, try it), it's pretty amazing.

He is proving to not need it even at the NHL level. Maybe as he gets stronger, he rounds his game out a bit. JJ is going to pot 40 for us. I am not giving up anyone good on the roster. It is add only season for me.

 

[Der Jaeger]

He is proving to not need it even at the NHL level. Maybe as he gets stronger, he rounds his game out a bit. JJ is going to pot 40 for us. I am not giving up anyone good on the roster. It is add only season for me.

Going to be hard to adjust the roster with a stance like that. You can't get an impact player without giving something of value.

 

[TageGod]

Going to be hard to adjust the roster with a stance like that. You can't get an impact player without giving something of value.

"add only" so prospects/futures. With goal scoring an issue, our current goal scorers are off the table for me. I am fairly confident Tage will be closer to 40 next year, Cozens will rebound a bit too, I just think its add player mode not trade away young goal scorers. You can move peterka and get back a higher end player, or you can keep peterka, use less assets, and have a middle 6C to replace Mitts. Even if you use Peterka plus maybe 1st and Kulich for a Tkchuck or similar, you still have a huge hole and have to use a lot more assets.

For all my talk of Mitts not being that great, he was a perfect 3C player. Need a new Mitts.

 

[zenthusiast]

You don’t often get better by trading your young 30 goal scorer, especially when his overall game in my estimation isn’t quite as bad as some others feel. Baby Tkachuk might be something we need but I’d sooner empty the cabinet than move Peterka.

 

[Gabrielor]

I played plenty with the idea of a Tkachuk trade, and no matter how you slice it, it's a bad idea.

I'd love a player like him, but it f***s over the salary structure and costs a load of futures for something I don't think will solve our biggest issue.

This is one of those rare scenarios where I prefer Adams' patience. 1st+Peterka+ for Tkachuk turns our current timeline (it's open ended basically) and puts it on a 4 year clock, and might actually make us worse in the NHL.

 

[Gabrielor]

Byram: I'm probably the wrong person to ask about Byram; I've been a Mitts fan since pretty much about two weeks after Krueger was fired. Since that time (and when he wasn't injured) he was our best 200' forward. So while I'm trying to make an effort to root for Byram, I'm naturally jaded. I'll also echo everything that @Chainshot said about the type of player he is - young, rover, offensively minded, left handed, etc. I just don't like the roster fit. Even if I disregard the handedness, I'd much rather have someone stronger at shot suppression than shot generation. All of that being said, this top 4 D core of Dahlin, Power, Byram, and Samuelsson should grow to become very very good, perhaps a top 3 unit in the league if they can stay healthy.

Cozens: I'm not worried about him at all. The slow start sucked, but I think young players sometimes struggle after getting big contracts because they're trying to prove their worth it on every shift. They tighten the grip on the stick and then it just gets into their heads. Losing Quinn as a linemate made things worse. His numbers aren't pretty, but our turnaround in the second half was largely because he was able to turn his game around. Making things worse is his deployment, the kid just turned 23 and is a top 6 center, top PP, top PK, leads the team in D zone starts, and is often deployed in a shut down role. His deployment isn't ROR level of insanity, but he's got a full plate at a young age with limited teamates.
View attachment 848352

I have some other thoughts about the slow starts for our core guys, but I've kind of been saving that for a post-mortem/offseason thread post.

Krebs: In the preseason I wrote that he was obviously a big piece in the room and brings a lot of energy. The intangibles buys him a lot of leeway for me. I also previously referenced an interview with Jeep on Sabres Live, where he mentioned that Krebs would have to embrace his place as a role player if he wasn't able to cut it as a top 6 skill player. I think Krebs has done that this season to a certain extent, but I was really hoping he'd be able to make a minor impact on special teams (PP2 or as a penalty killer) as well, which hasn't happened.
Even if he does become a solid bottom 6 energy player, his point production needs to improve or he's just unplayable. His total points per 60 is below guys like Girgs and Robinson. Hell, his assists/60 was supposed to be his strength and he's at the bottom in that category as well.

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I think they're going to continue to let him develop because of the intangibles, but in all my lineup projections he's firmly in the bottom 6 and he's one of my biggest question marks going into next year.

This is the good stuff. There will be a super-like on this site.

Here's a precision-based question from all of the writing.

How much of this summer is 'Adams, make additions / fire the coach' and how much of this summer is 'hey, core guys who are here, play to your potential'? One could argue they're hand-in-hand, but while Krebs might be effected by some addition, Cozens' only way back is Cozens himself.

 

[Jim Bob]

RE: Tkachuk/Peterka discussion

Not sure why people need to tear one down to boost the other. The Sabres need both types of players, but if the request from Ottawa was Peterka, I would gladly trade him away for what Tkachuk is as a player. For what ails this team, for the sort of impact he can have on his teammates, I think Tkachuk is a lot more valuable, and would be more valuable to the organization especially when the main concern for this team is consistently "getting ready to play", than his production numbers would be, which aren't too bad to begin with.

In a perfect world, I would love to keep Peterka and have Tkachuk as I think that would be a fantastic winger duo together.

We need a lot of bite, which needs to be addressed by management in the offseason. Whether that's of the play on the ice, or that presence in the locker room. Tkachuk is exactly the sort of personality of team NEEDS. He would be a player I would absolutely trade any of the next two years' 1st rounders for.

As soon as people in the organization understand, and the fans understand, that winning consistently, you need to have a pr***ish sort of behavior from the players on your team, maybe then they will make headway in their progress. Otherwise, they can and will continue to play in the less valuable areas of the ice every night.

The Senators are 103-110-18 since Tkachuk was named captain.

I like Tkachuk's game in general. I liked him in the draft. I just worried about the offensive upside as his pre-draft offensive numbers were not great.

I wonder if he would be able to elevate this team. Or, if he would be another younger guy with no winning experience in the NHL that would just be more of the young, talented, inexperience that they already have and not exactly what they need right now.

For instance, I would much rather they go after a guy like Anthony Cirelli this summer than a guy like Brady Tkachuk.

This is the good stuff. There will be a super-like on this site.

Here's a precision-based question from all of the writing.

How much of this summer is 'Adams, make additions / fire the coach' and how much of this summer is 'hey, core guys who are here, play to your potential'? One could argue they're hand-in-hand, but while Krebs might be effected by some addition, Cozens' only way back is Cozens himself.

How much of the core guys playing to their potential might be tied to upgrading the coaching staff?

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

You seems to be wedded to points. Check out the metrics posted above by @Jim Bob they aren't close to being the same player (Tkachuk and Peterka).

Tkachuk carrying the Sabres is a straw man argument which I never made. I think he's a great fit for what the Sabres need. Two completely different arguments.

Reinhart forced his way out by indicating the management that he wasn't re-signing. There's a huge difference. Reinhart could've been the centerpiece of the rebuild had he said that he'd re-sign. That's a large difference between trading away Peterka.

Are you comparing Peterka and Reinhart on just goal amounts? Reinhart scored 23 goals in his first full NHL season, largely playing with O'Reilly. And he wasn't getting goals as gifts from other players (I proved that ad naseum years ago). Reinhart is a consistent 20 goal player with the Sabres who developed into a 30 goal scorer with the Panthers.

Peterka scored 12 goals in his first full NHL season and he's close to 30 in his second. That's hardly showing more goal scoring ability, particularly since Reinhart had the ability to score multiple way early on, and Peterka is largely beating goalies with a mid range shot.

I never said they were the same player. I said you are far underrating what Peterka has done at 22 & what Tkachuk's impact is on a team. Brady is almost 3 years older than him. Peterka hasn't hit his prime yet.

You're missing the point. If we're trading one of the biggest trade packages over the last 20 years it better be for a guy that can carry a team.

Sam's personal best was 25 goals in a season. Peterka already has hit 28 goals while on the PP2. If Sam was able to be a 30+ goal scorer with the ability to score 50 I don't see why Peterka couldn't.

 

[Der Jaeger]

"add only" so prospects/futures. With goal scoring an issue, our current goal scorers are off the table for me. I am fairly confident Tage will be closer to 40 next year, Cozens will rebound a bit too, I just think its add player mode not trade away young goal scorers. You can move peterka and get back a higher end player, or you can keep peterka, use less assets, and have a middle 6C to replace Mitts. Even if you use Peterka plus maybe 1st and Kulich for a Tkchuck or similar, you still have a huge hole and have to use a lot more assets.

For all my talk of Mitts not being that great, he was a perfect 3C player. Need a new Mitts.

I'm not sure goal scoring is an issue as much as the power play. I think if Granato fixes it, you'd see a different season outcome.

What's the difference between what Peterak scores and TKachuk scores? Not a huge gap either way it goes. But what Tkachuk does at the front of the net is something the Sabres desperately need. And he's very good at it.

You don’t often get better by trading your young 30 goal scorer, especially when his overall game in my estimation isn’t quite as bad as some others feel. Baby Tkachuk might be something we need but I’d sooner empty the cabinet than move Peterka.

I don't think Ottawa would make a prospects for player trade in total. I think someone off the main roster needs to go the other way. Peterka played with Stutzle, so that's an enticing player in a trade.

I doubt Adams, or anyone really, improves the roster to the degree that it needs by moving prospects alone. Plus, there's a mega crap ton of forwards, and they all can't play.

 

[paulmm3]

Not saying I would've taken Marco Kasper over Matt Savoie, but I understand what I thought was a bad selection from Detroit more now. Two way forwards like that are just hard to add any way other than through the draft

 

[OkimLom]

The Senators are 103-110-18 since Tkachuk was named captain.

I like Tkachuk's game in general. I liked him in the draft. I just worried about the offensive upside as his pre-draft offensive numbers were not great.

I wonder if he would be able to elevate this team. Or, if he would be another younger guy with no winning experience in the NHL that would just be more of the young, talented, inexperience that they already have and not exactly what they need right now.

For instance, I would much rather they go after a guy like Anthony Cirelli this summer than a guy like Brady Tkachuk.

With Brady, his style and mindset of play is about 90% of the reason I want him. Any offense is a bonus for me (he's been a .93 PPG player since being named captain).

I love me some Cirelli play, and I do think he fits the style of team that Adams is building of favoring a finesse style of play vs the bull in a China Shop style, but I also hold the opinion that the style of team Adams is trying to build doesn't have enough fortitude and we need some pieces on this team in the leadership group/sense that needs a bit more bite to their game to balance out the more finesse aspect of the team.

I don't think Brady NEEDS to elevate the team, but I do think he would be a big piece that we could add that may impact how the rest of the players attack the game, especially early in the game. I don't think Brady is the sort of player, that would settle into the team and become just another player.

 

[Chainshot]

Not saying I would've taken Marco Kasper over Matt Savoie, but I understand what I thought was a bad selection from Detroit more now. Two way forwards like that are just hard to add any way other than through the draft

Let's not forget that Kasper's father talked about how he thought Marco was going to Buffalo, that Buffalo was pre-draft rumored to be very interested in him too.

 

[Jim Bob]

With Brady, his style and mindset of play is about 90% of the reason I want him. Any offense is a bonus for me (he's been a .93 PPG player since being named captain).

I love me some Cirelli play, and I do think he fits the style of team that Adams is building of favoring a finesse style of play vs the bull in a China Shop style, but I also hold the opinion that the style of team Adams is trying to build doesn't have enough fortitude and we need some pieces on this team in the leadership group/sense that needs a bit more bite to their game to balance out the more finesse aspect of the team.

I don't think Brady NEEDS to elevate the team, but I do think he would be a big piece that we could add that may impact how the rest of the players attack the game, especially early in the game. I don't think Brady is the sort of player, that would settle into the team and become just another player.

Given his contract and what many expect the trade cost to be to acquire him, Tkachuk would need to elevate the team or the trade and the contract would not be worth it, IMO.

 

[OkimLom]

Given his contract and what many expect the trade cost to be to acquire him, Tkachuk would need to elevate the team or the trade and the contract would not be worth it, IMO.

Okay, that's fine.

I'm of the opinion he would and can, but I don't think the onus should fall on this shoulders solely, as I feel guys like Thompson and Dahlin should also carry those expectations as well.

The organization requires a core identity change. Tkachuk could be the catalyst for that change and that's the only expectations I would want out of him if we traded for him.

 

[Chainshot]

This is the good stuff. There will be a super-like on this site.

Here's a precision-based question from all of the writing.

How much of this summer is 'Adams, make additions / fire the coach' and how much of this summer is 'hey, core guys who are here, play to your potential'? One could argue they're hand-in-hand, but while Krebs might be effected by some addition, Cozens' only way back is Cozens himself.

It remains on Adams to get over himself regarding "not blocking" his selection of prospects. They could've used a top 6 NHL vet because injuries happen and happened. They did nothing to effectively replace Quinn or improve in the middle of their forward lineup.

They can't sit around hoping things ambiently get better.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I never said they were the same player. I said you are far underrating what Peterka has done at 22 & what Tkachuk's impact is on a team. Brady is almost 3 years older than him. Peterka hasn't hit his prime yet.

You're missing the point. If we're trading one of the biggest trade packages over the last 20 years it better be for a guy that can carry a team.

Sam's personal best was 25 goals in a season. Peterka already has hit 28 goals while on the PP2. If Sam was able to be a 30+ goal scorer with the ability to score 50 I don't see why Peterka couldn't.

I see Peterka as part of the top 2 lines as a scoring winger, so I don't underrate him. You don't get a player like Tkachuk without giving up good players.

So Vegas got Eichel, who hasn't carried the team, but became the #1 C they needed as part of the team. He's never carried them.

Huberdeau and Weegar, at the time of the Matthew Tkachuk trade, was a big trade package. I'd place it higher than what I offered for Brady Tkachuk. It's about what Vegas traded for Eichel.

 

[TageGod]

I'm not sure goal scoring is an issue as much as the power play. I think if Granato fixes it, you'd see a different season outcome.

What's the difference between what Peterak scores and TKachuk scores? Not a huge gap either way it goes. But what Tkachuk does at the front of the net is something the Sabres desperately need. And he's very good at it.

The difference would be the assets you used can get you a middle 6C to add while keeping Peterka. Get one that is good at that as well. Not that I would be unhappy with trading for him.

 

[sabremike]

It remains on Adams to get over himself regarding "not blocking" his selection of prospects. They could've used a top 6 NHL vet because injuries happen and happened. They did nothing to effectively replace Quinn or improve in the middle of their forward lineup.

They can't sit around hoping things ambiently get better.

 

[StrompTroller]

With Brady, his style and mindset of play is about 90% of the reason I want him. Any offense is a bonus for me (he's been a .93 PPG player since being named captain).

I love me some Cirelli play, and I do think he fits the style of team that Adams is building of favoring a finesse style of play vs the bull in a China Shop style, but I also hold the opinion that the style of team Adams is trying to build doesn't have enough fortitude and we need some pieces on this team in the leadership group/sense that needs a bit more bite to their game to balance out the more finesse aspect of the team.

I don't think Brady NEEDS to elevate the team, but I do think he would be a big piece that we could add that may impact how the rest of the players attack the game, especially early in the game. I don't think Brady is the sort of player, that would settle into the team and become just another player.

I want both players not just one. Now make the cap work....

 

[OkimLom]

I want both players not just one. Now make the cap work....

I'm not disagreeing. Problem is that you need trade for both. Not sure I want to strip the cupboards THAT bare for two divisional rivals.

 

[TehDoak]

Can someone print like 1000 of copies of this quote out, break into First Niagara arena, and wallpaper kevyn adams office with it.

I'm still incensed at the whole bullshit that was 'we're not going to block the kids' movement in 2021. It was just a euphemism for "well we aren't going to win this year so we're going to spend the bare f***ing minimum and call it development"

For a team that history is just heartbreak and ineptitude, to go out and just essentially throw these prospects off the deep end and hoping they'd swim with a first time head coach and minimal veteran leadership is just pure incompetence. And the result is what you see here.

Nobody cares that they keep losing because they've been shown by management that losing is acceptable. That they aren't going to spend to fill the roles that are desperately missing. They are just going to attack the problem by amassing draft picks and hope it works out.

This summer has to be a show me summer by the front office to the players, or there is going to be players lining up for the door and it'll make the Krueger's last year look like a picnic.

 

[SabresFan26]

Wonder what team Trotz was referencing?

But that’s Sabres to a T.

 

[TehDoak]

Wonder what team Trotz was referencing?

But that’s Sabres to a T.

A stanley cup winning GM did an aggressive failed rebuild?

I'm guessing Dave Tallon's time with the panthers.

 

[Der Jaeger]

A stanley cup winning GM did an aggressive failed rebuild?

I'm guessing Dave Tallon's time with the panthers.

It said they weren't winning any more Cups. So it probably is a team which won a Cup, and then went youth movement.

 

[Gabrielor]

That's a major reason why I'm happy with Rochester right now.