Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[sabremike]

Is Pageau a good option until Ostlund is ready?

Absolutely f***ing not, 100% washed up and with an awful contract to boot.

 

[Gras]

Baffling = Adams for 2 years has been trying to trade Olofsson and we are trying to make the playoffs and there he is on the roster.

So much dead weight on this roster.

coaching and management is incompetent.

(No I am not blaming Olofsson for missing the playoffs. I am blaming Adams and his inability to turn the page on players that need to go. Olofsson was probably tradable last offseason but Adams sat on his hands)

He was probably tradeable, but then Quinn got hurt.

 

[Chainshot]

The issue with the team isn't talent level.

It's inconsistent effort, defensive zone coverage, and just general softness.

Which player on our team embodies these "qualities"?

Leave him be, he's still probably stinging from the departure of Evander Kane.

Elsewhere, it's the annual UDFA season. Here is one writer's attempt to put together a list:

2024 NHL Free Agency: Top 10 European UFAs

Here is EP Rinkside's European UFA list:

The EP Rinkside 2024 European Free Agency Guide

Lassi Alanen, Jimmy Hamrin, Greg Balloch, Marek Novotny, and Dylan Griffing team up to look at the 12 top European free agents this year.

eprinkside.com

 

[TehDoak]

Leave him be, he's still probably stinging from the departure of Evander Kane.

Elsewhere, it's the annual UDFA season. Here is one writer's attempt to put together a list:

2024 NHL Free Agency: Top 10 European UFAs

Here is EP Rinkside's European UFA list:

The EP Rinkside 2024 European Free Agency Guide

Lassi Alanen, Jimmy Hamrin, Greg Balloch, Marek Novotny, and Dylan Griffing team up to look at the 12 top European free agents this year.

eprinkside.com

Kane's effort wasn't anything to remember either. When he WANTED to be, he was a force. But it wasn't consistent at any level. And he wanted to leave. I don't think anyone shed any tears over his departure.

It's time for the Skinner buyout. There isn't a way cap wise or roster space wise, to remake the forward group with him here still. You don't have to speak ill of him, but simply recognize that he is part of the problem here, not the solution. It was a dumb contract and it's time to take our medicine and be done with it. The issue is Skinner doesn't "want" to go, he seems happy to wallow in well paid mediocrity. Which...is another reason he's gotta go.

 

[Chainshot]

Kane's effort wasn't anything to remember either. When he WANTED to be, he was a force. But it wasn't consistent at any level. And he wanted to leave. I don't think anyone shed any tears over his departure.

Only his drinking buddies seemed to be bothered by it.

 

[Chainshot]

This time of year used to engender a bit of excitement for me regarding teams shopping for UDFA to round out their depth and perhaps find a quality player for the farm (or rarer still, for the big club). But one downside to the slew of prospect forwards is there is way less incentive for a UDFA who might have a skillset they lack to sign simply because there isn't as clear of a path to possible NHL playing time. Similarly, if we look at their defense, five key guys are under 24 with a former first round pick waiting his turn in Rochester. Goalie? UPL and Levi (and Ratzlaff in the pipeline).

It's a place to find energetic worker bees who have had to strive to get a chance at the next level, something that can continue to serve them well at the next level(s) of pro hockey. Oskar Eklind and Arttu Hyry and Max Lindholm would be solid adds for the Amerks in that all three have good size and use it in puck battles and traffic areas. They need so much more of that then they have. If they could land one of those guys (Hyry would be my favorite since he plays center and I have serious questions about Kozak's ability to stay healthy enough to make it to the next level).

 

[toddkaz]

He was probably tradeable, but then Quinn got hurt.

Thats irrelevant to me. You dont keep a player that you dont even want because of injuries. You trade for another player that fits in to your plan.

You say it like you find it acceptable. You can get a 3rd line player for a 2nd or even a 3rd round pick. To keep Olofsson because Quinn got hurt is moronic.

Also Olofsson never took Quinn's spot. I would say Benson more than Olofsson. Olofsson gets 10 minutes a game and is scratched most of the time. How is that replacing Quinn? Its not.

 

[Beerz]

Thats irrelevant to me. You dont keep a player that you dont even want because of injuries. You trade for another player that fits in to your plan.

You say it like you find it acceptable. You can get a 3rd line player for a 2nd or even a 3rd round pick. To keep Olofsson because Quinn got hurt is moronic.

Also Olofsson never took Quinn's spot. I would say Benson more than Olofsson. Olofsson gets 10 minutes a game and is scratched most of the time. How is that replacing Quinn? Its not.

Lots to blame Kevyn for... this ain't it.

Nobody was taking VO at his cap hit or even at 50%.

Hit Kevyn for not replacing Quinn.. not keeping VO

 

[Der Jaeger]

Lots to blame Kevyn for... this ain't it.

Nobody was taking VO at his cap hit or even at 50%.

Hit Kevyn for not replacing Quinn.. not keeping VO

I think he could've gotten something with 50% retention for Olofsson had he moved him over the summer. He was coming off 20 goal and 28 goal seasons.

 

[Beerz]

I think he could've gotten something with 50% retention for Olofsson had he moved him over the summer. He was coming off 20 goal and 28 goal seasons.

I think there was only a handful of teams who had cap space

 

[zenthusiast]

I’ve said before that I think coaching isn’t getting the full potential out of this roster, but this year also should raise some concern as to whether the Sabres actually have an elite forward to lead the offense or if last year was an extreme outlier

 

[Chainshot]

I think he could've gotten something with 50% retention for Olofsson had he moved him over the summer. He was coming off 20 goal and 28 goal seasons.

Soft, one-dimensional shooter who does nothing else well when everyone is capped out, even at 2.4 million, is not worth that much.

 

[Beerz]

I’ve said before that I think coaching isn’t getting the full potential out of this roster, but this year also should raise some concern as to whether the Sabres actually have an elite forward to lead the offense or if last year was an extreme outlier

Quinn potentially

 

[brian_griffin]

This is why we need Bruce Boudreau.

Or this guy, but his legal issues likely preclude hiring him any time soon.

Tuch’s right that it’s not an excuse to point out that the team is so young. The problem is how many more years is this going to be the organizational plan? They just got a lot younger. Traded the two oldest players out and shave another four years off in their Mitts for Byram deal. Until prospects start being moved for proven players…their only future hope continues to reside in even younger players who haven’t made the league yet.

It’s a total left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing issue. Because you can catch Don and Kevyn talking about how they don’t think the youth is a problem because the young guys have a lot of experience.

So which is it? Is it the makeup of the roster? The coaching? The players? I mean it’s all of them but no one acts like it’s any of them. All each side does is talk in circles, not take responsibility and get mad when anyone questions another side.

How many more seasons can be lost without anyone having to answer for anything?

They’re probably going to be the youngest team in the league again next year. So should we just write off another one? Not hold coaching or management accountable for that? Or the players? What are we doing here? What is the plan?

I may be arguing just to argue, but to the bolded above, mean (what most people and Microsoft Excel call "average") age is different from median age. "Age" or "experience" is important, but I don't think mean (simple average) team age means as much as some people (not you singularly) make it out to be.

I think for you to make a sweeping, grandiose statement like "almost always" and THEN say "of course there are exceptions"....you need to define what you think of as small. I don't think anyone thinks that Ostlund is "small". He's 5'11". Savoie is 5'10".

A quick scan of NHL rosters tells me that there are plenty of 5'11" centers out there and more 5'10" centers than I thought there would be......especially given the "almost always" you claim.

I only saw a handful of 5' with single-digit inches though.

So to me, your claim is accurate with players 5'9" and shorter but kind of falls short otherwise, as there are lots of NHL-level centers that are 5'10" and 5'11'.


And I think your "most people" think statement is just flat wrong about Ostlund. I don't think I've seen one legitimate prospect media-type say/write lately that Ostlund is a likely winger (by lately, I mean post-draft...not pre-draft scouting reports).

Italic underline of the bolded - pun intended?

My son is coached by a former NHL/AHL defenseman who coached in the ECHL, and a former NCAA D1 forward who was drafted in the NHL and played a decade in the AHL. I asked them.

I asked them about size at center and why do smaller centers get moved to wing, when it happens.

Coach who played D: “Players typically slow down a lot when they get older and lose a step. A lot of coaches build their teams down the middle and speed is a huge part of it. Or could just be making room for the up and coming player who knows how to play center, because those types of players are hard to find.”

Coach who played forward: “Most natural center men are solely offensive minded at a young age. When you get older and smarter, you realize playing wing is much less work with less defensive responsibility. So offensive players eventually gravitate there.”

(and)

When you're young, the best players get moved to C and D as they impact the game the most. I agree that finding that defensive oriented C with offensive skills are unicorns as scoring goals is sexier than shutting the opposition down

(and)

Marty St Louis was undersized but he was built like a truck…..I can’t speak about Ostuld but Rosen, Benson and Savoie all look like they’re 5’7” and 140lbs.

In particular, St. Louis, and his older French Canadian prototype Yvan Cournoyer, had massive thighs and were outstanding skaters.

I question whether Krebs knows which end to shoot at unless told before the period starts.

And, since I invoked Couronyer, I will remark that sometimes Krebs is Roadrunner (pun intended), and some times Krebs is Wile E. Coyote.

The bar is so low that VO isn't even in the top 5 of controllable issues

VO is the loose newel post cap at the bottom of the stairs in the general cold and draftiness in George Bailey's house in It's a wonderful life.

Kane's effort wasn't anything to remember either. When he WANTED to be, he was a force. But it wasn't consistent at any level. And he wanted to leave. I don't think anyone shed any tears over his departure.

It's time for the Skinner buyout. There isn't a way cap wise or roster space wise, to remake the forward group with him here still. You don't have to speak ill of him, but simply recognize that he is part of the problem here, not the solution. It was a dumb contract and it's time to take our medicine and be done with it. The issue is Skinner doesn't "want" to go, he seems happy to wallow in well paid mediocrity. Which...is another reason he's gotta go.

You continue to come back to a Skinner buyout. What is the differential savings and the differential benefit of a buyout? The savings is minimal - Skinner will need to be replaced by a player who will garner ~50-75% of his salary, and the buyout penalty will make up the different. The most you will save will be ~25% of his cap hit. What performance benefit will you get from the buyout? A little less counting stats, better Corsi / Fenwick possession stats. So a few million dollars savings for a likely push on team goal differential. I agree Skinner is overpaid, and was a "forced" decision to extend him to the $9M AAV contract, but an incremental $2-3M per year spent on a player who should be a 2nd or 3rd line forward isn't the reason Buffalo has missed the playoffs in Skinner's tenure, and it won't be what keeps them from making them next year.

 

[brian_griffin]

Lots to blame Kevyn for... this ain't it.

Nobody was taking VO at his cap hit or even at 50%.

Hit Kevyn for not replacing Quinn.. not keeping VO

Agreed. In reality, Sabres could have paid and not played VO the entire season.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Soft, one-dimensional shooter who does nothing else well when everyone is capped out, even at 2.4 million, is not worth that much.

I would've taken a 7th.

 

[Chainshot]

I would've taken a 7th.

I would’ve too.

 

[Irie]

I think Ostlund's size absolutely will be a handicap for him.

Height is relative. Weight is somewhat relative. Build type is really what matters. The knock on Ostlund at the draft was that he was a small human being with a small framed bone structure. Narrower frames equals shorter bones which means shorter muscles.

Players don't have to have huge muscles to be successful in the NHL, but they have to have strong core muscles and being slight of frame substantially reduces their leverage to battle in the face off circle, on the boards, and for general position all over the ice.

I believe that is why some people envision Ostlund on the wing in the NHL.

A lot of premier offensive centers had the size, but didn't use it, and they found plenty of success, so why can't Ostlund? I think it will all comes down to team make-up and finding the right fit for players. Unfortunately, with Tage in the long-term plans at center, and him also being fairly ineffective defensively, if Ostlund is to play center here, they are going to likely need him to at least hold his own on the defensive side of the ice. You can shelter one defensively suspect center, but sheltering two is hard in this league. Whether or not Ostlund will adapt and find a way to use the tools he has to compete, or use high hockey IQ to be effective enough to play center is something we will have to wait to see.

 

[TehDoak]

You continue to come back to a Skinner buyout. What is the differential savings and the differential benefit of a buyout? The savings is minimal - Skinner will need to be replaced by a player who will garner ~50-75% of his salary, and the buyout penalty will make up the different. The most you will save will be ~25% of his cap hit. What performance benefit will you get from the buyout? A little less counting stats, better Corsi / Fenwick possession stats. So a few million dollars savings for a likely push on team goal differential. I agree Skinner is overpaid, and was a "forced" decision to extend him to the $9M AAV contract, but an incremental $2-3M per year spent on a player who should be a 2nd or 3rd line forward isn't the reason Buffalo has missed the playoffs in Skinner's tenure, and it won't be what keeps them from making them next year.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

The buyout saves us a bundle this year, some in 25, and about 3M in 26 and then costs us 3 years at 2.4M

The issue is actually more about his one dimensionality, soft play, and overall attitude.

We are a docile team. Skinner is a docile player. I'm not sure how many of those we can carry and be successful.

I am reasonably sure you will be able to replicate about 75% of his offensive output. He averages around 29 goals per 82 games played. 75% of that is 22/goals a season

To get 22 goals/82 games with top line minutes, high offensive zone starts, and premium power play time is not a herculean task.

If you can replicate 75% of his offense and can have more utility to the lineup (such as a good PKer, someone who is actually an asset to the PP rather than a liability, or actually some sort of physical presence, that would contribute more to team wins than skinners goals alone.

 

[elchud]

I will stick with what I said 5 years ago...the last two years of Skinners deal will be bought out. We will see him back next year.

They are gonna run back the essentially the same roster next year.

 

[toddkaz]

Lots to blame Kevyn for... this ain't it.

Nobody was taking VO at his cap hit or even at 50%.

Hit Kevyn for not replacing Quinn.. not keeping VO

Sorry I dont take your word for it. Can you send a link where no one wanted OV for the last 2 years at 50%

I am going to blame Kevyn for anything I want. Its a totality of his actions and when you need to turn the page and move on from a player you don't keep the player on your roster.

Thanks.

(Also if you google it teams were interested in Victor for the last 2 years you can be creative and get rid of him)

 

[TommyDangles]

Baffling = Adams for 2 years has been trying to trade Olofsson and we are trying to make the playoffs and there he is on the roster.

So much dead weight on this roster.

coaching and management is incompetent.

(No I am not blaming Olofsson for missing the playoffs. I am blaming Adams and his inability to turn the page on players that need to go. Olofsson was probably tradable last offseason but Adams sat on his hands)

We would've been lucky to get a 5th round pick at that point. Last time Victor had some real value was probably around 3 years ago. Nobody here wanted him traded though. People got pretty upset when I suggested it.

 

[toddkaz]

We would've been lucky to get a 5th round pick at that point. Last time Victor had some real value was probably around 3 years ago. Nobody here wanted him traded though. People got pretty upset when I suggested it.

Then you take your 5th and move on.

If I am building a team not just a sports team as manager I eliminate the waste as soon as possible then bring in guys I want to surround myself with.

We are on year 4 of the Adams rebuild. Unless your philosophy differs I understand but pretty sure mine is solid.

 

[TommyDangles]

Then you take your 5th and move on.

If I am building a team not just a sports team as manager I eliminate the waste as soon as possible then bring in guys I want to surround myself with.

We are on year 4 of the Adams rebuild. Unless your philosophy differs I understand but pretty sure mine is solid.

At that point depth is more valuable than just a 5th.

 

[Chainshot]

Well f***.