Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[sabremike]

Well f***.

If you were him why would you have even considered choosing us over them for even a split second? They are one of the elite organizations in the league and we are anything but, zero chance he was coming here.

 

[Chainshot]

If you were him why would you have even considered choosing us over them for even a split second? They are one of the elite organizations in the league and we are anything but, zero chance he was coming here.

His best friend is Devon Levi.

And I still really think you need to take a break.

 

[Chainshot]

I think Ostlund's size absolutely will be a handicap for him.

Height is relative. Weight is somewhat relative. Build type is really what matters. The knock on Ostlund at the draft was that he was a small human being with a small framed bone structure. Narrower frames equals shorter bones which means shorter muscles.

Players don't have to have huge muscles to be successful in the NHL, but they have to have strong core muscles and being slight of frame substantially reduces their leverage to battle in the face off circle, on the boards, and for general position all over the ice.

I believe that is why some people envision Ostlund on the wing in the NHL.

A lot of premier offensive centers had the size, but didn't use it, and they found plenty of success, so why can't Ostlund? I think it will all comes down to team make-up and finding the right fit for players. Unfortunately, with Tage in the long-term plans at center, and him also being fairly ineffective defensively, if Ostlund is to play center here, they are going to likely need him to at least hold his own on the defensive side of the ice. You can shelter one defensively suspect center, but sheltering two is hard in this league. Whether or not Ostlund will adapt and find a way to use the tools he has to compete, or use high hockey IQ to be effective enough to play center is something we will have to wait to see.

There are 148 forwards who have played a game in the NHL listed at 5'11" or less. 99 have played more than 30 games, 41 of them are listed by the NHL registry as centers (out of the 205 listed centers). Ostlund defensively is about positioning, quickness, smarts and use of his stick to break up plays. That's going to be the same thing he has to do in the NHL. Nothing he's done thus far points to him being lesser because of his height. He may wind up on the wing, but he looks like a player who could be good at his job defensively at the next level.

 

[Dubi Doo]

What's everyone think about Benson getting a shot at center? Too much too soon? It seems like a terrible idea for most 18 year olds, but Benson's mental game is on another level. Assuming no major changes for next year:

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Peterka-Cozens-XXX
Greenway-Benson-Quinn
Girgs-Krebs-XXX

Again, this is assuming Adams doesn't make any major changes. XXX could be a young player, an outside acquisition (likely a top-9, two-way winger), or Robinson.

 

[brian_griffin]

Well f***.

Rob Ray exhales heavily in relief when reading the news...

 

[OkimLom]

What's everyone think about Benson getting a shot at center? Too much too soon? It seems like a terrible idea for most 18 year olds, but Benson's mental game is on another level. Assuming no major changes for next year:

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Peterka-Cozens-XXX
Greenway-Benson-Quinn
Girgs-Krebs-XXX

Again, this is assuming Adams doesn't make any major changes. XXX could be a young player, an outside acquisition (likely a top-9, two-way winger), or Robinson.

Too much too soon. I wouldn’t hate the idea too much, as it would allow Benson to be consistently moving and being able to attack more of the ice with his IQ. It’s an idea I would put a pin in and come back to it maybe year 2 or year 3.

 

[Chainshot]

Rob Ray exhales heavily in relief when reading the news...

Ritz coe vee en. Easy.

 

[toddkaz]

At that point depth is more valuable than just a 5th.

No its not. Its not about depth. You can get depth anywhere. Thats what people here are missing. Its about having a plan. You gonna miss Olofsson's 5 goals and 8 minutes a game?

Instead Adams brings back
Jost
Olofsson
Bryson
Okposo
Clague
Girgensons

On top of that the plethora of 4th line players and borderline players that Adams signs and resigns.

13 years of missed playoffs lets rinse and repeat next year? People are so content with what is going on here. Lets get Girgensons that 2 year contract for 3 million a season next year. People are so content with what is going on here.

Or

How about moving on and turning the page and bringing in NHL players and build a winner? The biggest mistake Adams made last offseason was resigning Okposo. Bringing back people that aren't part of the bigger plan is a mistake. Bringing back Okposo instead of naming Dahlin captain was a huge mistake.

Adams just does the bare minimum to get by. I hope that changes this offseason but I am doubtful.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Ritz coe vee en. Easy.

“Wreck-o-ween with a nice play there.”

 

[Gras]

No its not. Its not about depth. You can get depth anywhere. Thats what people here are missing. Its about having a plan. You gonna miss Olofsson's 5 goals and 8 minutes a game?

Instead Adams brings back
Jost
Olofsson
Bryson
Okposo
Clague
Girgensons

On top of that the plethora of 4th line players and borderline players that Adams signs and resigns.

13 years of missed playoffs lets rinse and repeat next year? People are so content with what is going on here. Lets get Girgensons that 2 year contract for 3 million a season next year. People are so content with what is going on here.

Or

How about moving on and turning the page and bringing in NHL players and build a winner? The biggest mistake Adams made last offseason was resigning Okposo. Bringing back people that aren't part of the bigger plan is a mistake. Bringing back Okposo instead of naming Dahlin captain was a huge mistake.

Adams just does the bare minimum to get by. I hope that changes this offseason but I am doubtful.

Harping about 4th line, 14th forwards and 8+ D is such a strange hill to die on.

Sabres werent gonna get someone like Tarasenko to sign and be like, he we have this roster spot for you but when this guy comes back from injury hes gonna get his spot back, so your role will get diminished.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

What's everyone think about Benson getting a shot at center? Too much too soon? It seems like a terrible idea for most 18 year olds, but Benson's mental game is on another level. Assuming no major changes for next year:

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Peterka-Cozens-XXX
Greenway-Benson-Quinn
Girgs-Krebs-XXX

Again, this is assuming Adams doesn't make any major changes. XXX could be a young player, an outside acquisition (likely a top-9, two-way winger), or Robinson.

Benson is way too small and lacks the skating to counter his size disadvantage. He excels in the small area game where he can use his plus edgework and leverage to get inside defenders but that is neutered when forced into open ice. His big brain is perfectly fine in the offensive zone, seeing and sliding into open areas

 

[Chainshot]

What's everyone think about Benson getting a shot at center? Too much too soon? It seems like a terrible idea for most 18 year olds, but Benson's mental game is on another level. Assuming no major changes for next year:

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Peterka-Cozens-XXX
Greenway-Benson-Quinn
Girgs-Krebs-XXX

Again, this is assuming Adams doesn't make any major changes. XXX could be a young player, an outside acquisition (likely a top-9, two-way winger), or Robinson.

I think Benson works as a sort of hybrid center who is listed at wing, is frequently the F1 disrupting on the forecheck and is also responsible enough to rotate back if needed to cover for whoever the center may be if they are a bit slushy in their own zone. I don't know about plugging him into the middle yet.

 

[brian_griffin]

No its not. Its not about depth. You can get depth anywhere. Thats what people here are missing. Its about having a plan. You gonna miss Olofsson's 5 goals and 8 minutes a game?

Instead Adams brings back
Jost
Olofsson
Bryson
Okposo
Clague
Girgensons

On top of that the plethora of 4th line players and borderline players that Adams signs and resigns.

13 years of missed playoffs lets rinse and repeat next year? People are so content with what is going on here. Lets get Girgensons that 2 year contract for 3 million a season next year. People are so content with what is going on here.

Or

How about moving on and turning the page and bringing in NHL players and build a winner? The biggest mistake Adams made last offseason was resigning Okposo. Bringing back people that aren't part of the bigger plan is a mistake. Bringing back Okposo instead of naming Dahlin captain was a huge mistake.

Adams just does the bare minimum to get by. I hope that changes this offseason but I am doubtful.

Jost - every team has a Jost who plays ~half the NHL season in a depth role at ~11 min TOI
Olofsson - No one was buying at the price the Sabres were demanding. 2/3 the Sabres games at 15:30 TOI - he's the issue, yep.
Bryson - Every team has a #8 d-man like Bryson who plays a third of the teams games at 15 min avg TOI and btw, #78's numbers this season look fine.
Okposo - Essentially full season with decent play for his role. He's the only player on your list with a regular, recurring role.
Clague - Has played 2 games this season. Your argument weakens by including him.
Girgensons - playoff teams would kill for a Girgensons in their forward depth.

As @Gras said, it's not the depth. It's the high-minute "top-end" talent who have crapped the bed and/or not elevated their teammates.

“Wreck-o-ween with a nice play there.”

Ritz Carlton

 

[Irie]

There are 148 forwards who have played a game in the NHL listed at 5'11" or less. 99 have played more than 30 games, 41 of them are listed by the NHL registry as centers (out of the 205 listed centers). Ostlund defensively is about positioning, quickness, smarts and use of his stick to break up plays. That's going to be the same thing he has to do in the NHL. Nothing he's done thus far points to him being lesser because of his height. He may wind up on the wing, but he looks like a player who could be good at his job defensively at the next level.

The height is not the issue. Height is only relative when considering it alongside with body type. What I am saying is that "if Ostlund has trouble as a center in the NHL" it will be because he is slight, not because he is sub 6'. He has a small frame with narrow hips and shoulders. It was the overwheling knock on him in his draft year.

Positioning is great, but you need leverage, and if you are scrawny and weigh 150, you are never going to win a position battle. When playing the high slot area on D, the center needs leverage to be able to compete for position on shooters. For wingers, it is much less of a necessity, and I think that is why a lot of folks penciled him in at wing in the NHL.

 

[Chainshot]

The height is not the issue. Height is only relative when considering it alongside with body type. What I am saying is that "if Ostlund has trouble as a center in the NHL" it will be because he is slight, not because he is sub 6'. He has a small frame with narrow hips and shoulders. It was the overwheling knock on him in his draft year.

Positioning is great, but you need leverage, and if you are scrawny and weigh 150, you are never going to win a position battle. When playing the high slot area on D, the center needs leverage to be able to compete for position on shooters. For wingers, it is much less of a necessity, and I think that is why a lot of folks penciled him in at wing in the NHL.

I don't see the concern about that in what I've read and watched. Also, Black Book specifically mentioned what you are concerned about with -

On a more positive note, his endurance, and athleticism are top of the class and while he may need to add muscle mass, he is still not particularly narrowly built and it seems to be room for physical improvement in that regard.

I'll have to see if I can dig up any of the other scout stuff as I melted my laptop from then until now.

Having watched him play at the U18's, the U20's and both Allsvenskan and SHL... building mass is a must but he does not look particularly slight. Hell, he was 164 when he was drafted. It would be a shock if he's not 12-15 lbs heavier already.

 

[Irie]

I don't see the concern about that in what I've read and watched. Also, Black Book specifically mentioned what you are concerned about with -



I'll have to see if I can dig up any of the other scout stuff as I melted my laptop from then until now.

Having watched him play at the U18's, the U20's and both Allsvenskan and SHL... building mass is a must but he does not look particularly slight. Hell, he was 164 when he was drafted. It would be a shock if he's not 12-15 lbs heavier already.

After hearing a lot about it pre-draft, he looked to be of fairly small and slight build at the draft, but glad to hear that maybe he had some growing yet to do and hopefully it won't be a problem.

Narrow shoulders is not nearly as big of an issue when prospects have wide hips and wide lower bodies that can counter most of the positional issues by using strong legs.

The biggest issue I see going forward with this stable of prospects is that while they may all learn to play positionally sound D, I worry this team will never be hard to play against if Adams continues the same path and plans to fill the ranks from within.

It is very difficult to win a playoff series if your forward core spends more time picking themselves up off of the ice than punishing and wearing down the oppositions defense.

p.s. sorry about your laptop

 

[StrompTroller]

I'm only 5'10 does this mean my nhl career is over? Go easy on me...

 

[Chainshot]

After hearing a lot about it pre-draft, he looked to be of fairly small and slight build at the draft, but glad to hear that maybe he had some growing yet to do and hopefully it won't be a problem.

Narrow shoulders is not nearly as big of an issue when prospects have wide hips and wide lower bodies that can counter most of the positional issues by using strong legs.

I'm aware.

The biggest issue I see going forward with this stable of prospects is that while they may all learn to play positionally sound D, I worry this team will never be hard to play against if Adams continues the same path and plans to fill the ranks from within.

I would also worry that there is a lack of commitment to that sort of game even with the personnel they do have. It's been a pet peeve of mine for a while - it's a lot easier to break another team's cycle if part of the triangle is picking himself up off the ice or is offstride from a collision. Same thing on the forecheck, making life harder in getting the puck out due to having someone in a defenseman's lap without time or space to make a clean pass. There is too much turn the other cheek/love they neighbor in how they are going about things at many levels.

It is very difficult to win a playoff series if your forward core spends more time picking themselves up off of the ice than punishing and wearing down the oppositions defense.

p.s. sorry about your laptop

Thanks! I downgraded because of cost but this one is functional.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I think Benson works as a sort of hybrid center who is listed at wing, is frequently the F1 disrupting on the forecheck and is also responsible enough to rotate back if needed to cover for whoever the center may be if they are a bit slushy in their own zone. I don't know about plugging him into the middle yet.

Too much too soon. I wouldn’t hate the idea too much, as it would allow Benson to be consistently moving and being able to attack more of the ice with his IQ. It’s an idea I would put a pin in and come back to it maybe year 2 or year 3.

I'm intrigued by the idea, but I also understand these sentiments. It's something that may happen in time. Slotting him with Greenway and Quinn is enticing as hell to me, though. He'd at least be getting two solid-to-great defensive players + one with incredibly enticing offensive skills.

Benson is way too small and lacks the skating to counter his size disadvantage. He excels in the small area game where he can use his plus edgework and leverage to get inside defenders but that is neutered when forced into open ice. His big brain is perfectly fine in the offensive zone, seeing and sliding into open areas

Heh, I believe his tenacity, edgework, and IQ would help him accel in the defensive zone where centers put in work. I want this man around the puck as much as possible!

 

[Aladyyn]

I'm intrigued by the idea, but I also understand these sentiments. It's something that may happen in time. Slotting him with Greenway and Quinn is enticing as hell to me, though. He'd at least be getting two solid-to-great defensive players + one with incredibly enticing offensive skills.

Heh, I believe his tenacity, edgework, and IQ would help him accel in the defensive zone where centers put in work. I want this man around the puck as much as possible!

I don't think his position matters for that, he'll always find a way

 

[TommyDangles]

No its not. Its not about depth. You can get depth anywhere. Thats what people here are missing. Its about having a plan. You gonna miss Olofsson's 5 goals and 8 minutes a game?

Instead Adams brings back
Jost
Olofsson
Bryson
Okposo
Clague
Girgensons

On top of that the plethora of 4th line players and borderline players that Adams signs and resigns.

13 years of missed playoffs lets rinse and repeat next year? People are so content with what is going on here. Lets get Girgensons that 2 year contract for 3 million a season next year. People are so content with what is going on here.

Or

How about moving on and turning the page and bringing in NHL players and build a winner? The biggest mistake Adams made last offseason was resigning Okposo. Bringing back people that aren't part of the bigger plan is a mistake. Bringing back Okposo instead of naming Dahlin captain was a huge mistake.

Adams just does the bare minimum to get by. I hope that changes this offseason but I am doubtful.

A 5th doesn't help the team at all. Having depth does. That's why it's pointless to just trade a guy for a 5th-7th unless you're in such salary cap hell. Keep the guy at that point.

And bringing back Okposo was the biggest mistake...? How impactful do you think 4th liners are? You can complain about how Granato used him at times (in critical situations or on the PP). Other than that Okposo is a perfectly fine 4th liner.

The reason why we didn't make the playoffs this year was the top 6 regressing & the PP sucking. Bringing back Clague or any other depth guy has nothing to do with it.

 

[TageGod]

Marty St Louis was undersized but he was built like a truck…..I can’t speak about Ostuld but Rosen, Benson and Savoie all look like they’re 5’7” and 140lbs.

Savoie is built more like Gerbe. He is smaller and I think heavier than Benson

 

[TageGod]

How do you guys think the trade Mitts-Braym has worked out so far?
I personnaly cannot phantom how they are going to fix the center issue now so that they are competitive next year.
Especially with the top2 centers now are underperforming & missing a strong 2way element & that kind of style that actually wins you games.
Ufa will probably cost them more than resigning Mitts, are there even any options available?
Is the only route to go for a trade & who would you target?

Just give me a low end 2C high end 3C type that can strengthen the middle…well I guess replace Mitts. No particular target. I really wanted Hertl

 

[Aladyyn]

The Lightning will have to make some tough decisions this summer. Stamkos walking is probably the most likely outcome but if not... Cirelli and Černák are very interesting names

 

[OkimLom]

The Lightning will have to make some tough decisions this summer. Stamkos walking is probably the most likely outcome but if not... Cirelli and Černák are very interesting names

What tough decisions do they have to make that involves Cirelli? Guy is signed through 2030-2031. He doesn't have a Trade Clause that kicks in. He's at a pretty manageable cap it and plays a solid game. Same thing goes for Cernak. Not sure why they should be made available.

They are also an organization that is pretty good at finding bargain price players that play their roles very well, through their development system.

I do agree Stamkos walking is probably the most likely outcome for them, but I believe their management team knew what was coming, and probably planned for it, when they gave Hagel that new contract.

I would love if we could get Stamkos to sign here. It would be a step in the right direction for the type/quality of leadership the room needs.