Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Der Jaeger]

Of course it’s about more than size. But it’s an absolute proven fact that small center prospects almost always get moved to wing to survive in the NHL. Of course there are exceptions but the data is the data and most people think Ostlund and Savoie will settle in as wingers in the NHL, if they can even stay healthy enough to make it.

My son is coached by a former NHL/AHL defenseman who coached in the ECHL, and a former NCAA D1 forward who was drafted in the NHL and played a decade in the AHL. I asked them.

I asked them about size at center and why do smaller centers get moved to wing, when it happens.

Coach who played D: “Players typically slow down a lot when they get older and lose a step. A lot of coaches build their teams down the middle and speed is a huge part of it. Or could just be making room for the up and coming player who knows how to play center, because those types of players are hard to find.”

Coach who played forward: “Most natural center men are solely offensive minded at a young age. When you get older and smarter, you realize playing wing is much less work with less defensive responsibility. So offensive players eventually gravitate there.”

 

[Old Navy Goat]

My son is coached by a former NHL/AHL defenseman who coached in the ECHL, and a former NCAA D1 forward who was drafted in the NHL and played a decade in the AHL. I asked them.

I asked them about size at center and why do smaller centers get moved to wing, when it happens.

Coach who played D: “Players typically slow down a lot when they get older and lose a step. A lot of coaches build their teams down the middle and speed is a huge part of it. Or could just be making room for the up and coming player who knows how to play center, because those types of players are hard to find.”

Coach who played forward: “Most natural center men are solely offensive minded at a young age. When you get older and smarter, you realize playing wing is much less work with less defensive responsibility. So offensive players eventually gravitate there.”

When you're young, the best players get moved to C and D as they impact the game the most. I agree that finding that defensive oriented C with offensive skills are unicorns as scoring goals is sexier than shutting the opposition down

 

[JLewyB]

Delete

 

[tsujimoto74]

They are in a situation where if they just go with youth to fill in the roster spots vacated by departures they aren't moving forward since they need to get more mature about their game. There are parts of the game that they are missing, net front guy(s), cycle guy(s), contact guyS (multiple) that just stuffing some smaller, quick kids on their misfit line isn't going to fix.

Well, if we could get more kids like Benson…

 

[Chainshot]

Well, if we could get more kids like Benson…

There is no guarantee Berkly Catton will be around when they pick.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

With a team full of problems the guy who will lead the team in goals and come close to his third consecutive 30 goal season is one of the lesser problems we have

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I think for you to make a sweeping, grandiose statement like "almost always" and THEN say "of course there are exceptions"....you need to define what you think of as small. I don't think anyone thinks that Ostlund is "small". He's 5'11". Savoie is 5'10".

A quick scan of NHL rosters tells me that there are plenty of 5'11" centers out there and more 5'10" centers than I thought there would be......especially given the "almost always" you claim.

I only saw a handful of 5' with single-digit inches though.

So to me, your claim is accurate with players 5'9" and shorter but kind of falls short otherwise, as there are lots of NHL-level centers that are 5'10" and 5'11'.


And I think your "most people" think statement is just flat wrong about Ostlund. I don't think I've seen one legitimate prospect media-type say/write lately that Ostlund is a likely winger (by lately, I mean post-draft...not pre-draft scouting reports).

Baker just said Ostlund is a winger, and he has watched more footage on him than this whole forum combined. And he said it’s because of size. Sorry but I trust his opinion more than yours or anyone on here.

Which traits do those smaller guys need to stick at center in your opinion?

Excellent skating
Two way play
IQ
Good passing

Staying healthy is up there too. But really IQ is the main thing.

 

[HaNotsri]

Baker just said Ostlund is a winger, and he has watched more footage on him than this whole forum combined. And he said it’s because of size. Sorry but I trust his opinion more than yours or anyone on here.


Staying healthy is up there too. But really IQ is the main thing.

Östlund skates and defends better than William Karlsson at his age and Karlsson was great. Östlund is better in transition as well. Karlsson was stronger and more NHL ready, you could tell he'd be fine in the NHL early.

Östlund just needs time. Leave him to develop in Växjö another season to shine. Then focus on adjusting to NA and building his body in Rochester for a year.

Baker has probably watched way more footage but as someone who watches a lot of games in the actual arena Östlund stands out as a center.
Give him the long path we didn't give Mitts and Krebs.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

Marty St Louis was undersized but he was built like a truck…..I can’t speak about Ostuld but Rosen, Benson and Savoie all look like they’re 5’7” and 140lbs.

 

[HOOats]

Baker just said Ostlund is a winger, and he has watched more footage on him than this whole forum combined. And he said it’s because of size. Sorry but I trust his opinion more than yours or anyone on here.

I'm curious, can you link to that? In most of his film breakdowns and pods this year he's been praising Ostlund's maturity and innate sense in patrolling the middle of the big ice.

It would represent a shift in his opinion if suddenly he plainly stated "Ostlund is a winger." Will he break into the NHL as one? Possibly. But I'd wager he's playing center next season (in Roch, which I believe is already decided @HaNotsri ).

 

[joshjull]

I'm curious, can you link to that? In most of his film breakdowns and pods this year he's been praising Ostlund's maturity and innate sense in patrolling the middle of the big ice.

It would represent a shift in his opinion if suddenly he plainly stated "Ostlund is a winger." Will he break into the NHL as one? Possibly. But I'd wager he's playing center next season (in Roch, which I believe is already decided @HaNotsri ).

I’ve heard him say Ostlund would likely be a winger before. But it was in the context of Mitts still here, Krebs and others as options and his lack of size. Not that he couldn’t or wouldn’t be a center. He was projecting where he would fit with the Sabres.

 

[HOOats]

I’ve heard him say Ostlund would likely be a winger before. But it was in the context of Mitts still here, Krebs and others as options and his lack of size. Not that he couldn’t or wouldn’t be a center. He was projecting where he would fit with the Sabres.

He's still the most natural center in the entire organization though, Krebs and Mitts included. His calling card has always been that 360° centerman IQ. He was a top 3 center in the whole WJC, dominating his peers for long stretches.

I think most agree that effective size is the only concern about him becoming an NHL center. How many 5'11 180 centers are there? 180 does feel slight, but there's certainly precedent. And despite our pathologized worries about size, the league continues to get less physical and more skating-based. I know we're a young team, but our guys look more like soccer players shirtless in the locker room.

Re: fit with the Sabres, I don't see this org as being so rich in centers that a player like Ostlund gets moved off the position by any factors external to his own game.

 

[HaNotsri]

I'm curious, can you link to that? In most of his film breakdowns and pods this year he's been praising Ostlund's maturity and innate sense in patrolling the middle of the big ice.

It would represent a shift in his opinion if suddenly he plainly stated "Ostlund is a winger." Will he break into the NHL as one? Possibly. But I'd wager he's playing center next season (in Roch, which I believe is already decided @HaNotsri ).

I'm not completely against ahl, there are benefits (control of special teams time, starting du adjust his body).
But one more year in the shl would give him the opportunity for an Elias Pettersson breakout and allow him to fully focus on hockey. Dealing with the consequences of emigrating is both exciting and a distraction (slightly less for him since he's already loved away from home).
I'm hoping he takes a leap next year if he stays in Sweden but I'm sure he'll be on a good path in Rochester as well.

 

[TehDoak]

Well, hello there



Edit:

Checks out cap friendly....

 

[Mattilaus]

Well, hello there



Edit:

Checks out cap friendly....

Wasn't he JUST named captain like a month ago?

 

[Chainshot]

Well, hello there



Edit:

Checks out cap friendly....

...He only played 11 minutes in the Boston loss and now there’s scuttlebutt that he might get the John Tortorella scratch treatment as a result of declining play, which, if we’re being honest, hasn’t been horrible. He’s not making bad mistakes and bad decisions out there, he just looks like a guy with an empty gas tank who can’t impact the game in any sort of meaningful way.

Is Scratching Newly-Minted Flyers Captain Sean Couturier a Risk Worth Taking?

The last time Sean Couturier scored a goal, the Kansas City Chiefs and San Francisco 49ers were getting ready to play Super Bowl 58 in Las Vegas. It’s been a while, as Aaron Lewis once said. Mind you, Coots would be named the Flyers’ 20th captain in franchise history just a few days later, a […]

www.crossingbroad.com

 

[sabremike]

Is Scratching Newly-Minted Flyers Captain Sean Couturier a Risk Worth Taking?

The last time Sean Couturier scored a goal, the Kansas City Chiefs and San Francisco 49ers were getting ready to play Super Bowl 58 in Las Vegas. It’s been a while, as Aaron Lewis once said. Mind you, Coots would be named the Flyers’ 20th captain in franchise history just a few days later, a […]

www.crossingbroad.com

DO NOT TOUCH!!!!!!!!

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

How about we leave him in Philly and take the coach instead?!?!?!

 

[Jim Bob]

Is Scratching Newly-Minted Flyers Captain Sean Couturier a Risk Worth Taking?

The last time Sean Couturier scored a goal, the Kansas City Chiefs and San Francisco 49ers were getting ready to play Super Bowl 58 in Las Vegas. It’s been a while, as Aaron Lewis once said. Mind you, Coots would be named the Flyers’ 20th captain in franchise history just a few days later, a […]

www.crossingbroad.com

Looking at Moneypuck and how some of the advanced stats are for Cates (who the Sabres were reportedly interested in) and Coots is interesting.

 

[Chainshot]

View attachment 838236
Looking at Moneypuck and how some of the advanced stats are for Cates (who the Sabres were reportedly interested in) and Coots is interesting.

Flyer followers are implying they burned him out with overuse after his long layoff due to injury recovery. I'm curious if he has anything left in the tank or if this is a precipitous plunge off the side of the aging cliff.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Is Scratching Newly-Minted Flyers Captain Sean Couturier a Risk Worth Taking?

The last time Sean Couturier scored a goal, the Kansas City Chiefs and San Francisco 49ers were getting ready to play Super Bowl 58 in Las Vegas. It’s been a while, as Aaron Lewis once said. Mind you, Coots would be named the Flyers’ 20th captain in franchise history just a few days later, a […]

www.crossingbroad.com

theres the okposo replacement donny has wanted

 

[TehDoak]

If it wasn't the 7.5M price tag for 7 more years it'd be worth considering. But....if the tank is already empty and it's just going to get smaller every year from here on out....yeah no thanks.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Give me a center with hockey IQ and a willingness to compete low in his own zone before some bigger player who doesn’t offer either.

This pretty much is what you need to be a center, I totally agree.

Except I’d add that it doesn’t just take a willingness to compete low in his zone but an ability to. A lot of smaller guys get manhandled and/or hurt when they spend a lot of time doing this. So they eventually move to wing so they can focus on the best parts of their game. Jack Quinn wanted to play center but reality hit him in the face. He had the tools.

Catton from the draft is a smaller guy who will probably be a center. Benson had most of the qualities too, but maybe his IQ can’t keep up with his elite motor.

 

[Der Jaeger]

This pretty much is what you need to be a center, I totally agree.

Except I’d add that it doesn’t just take a willingness to compete low in his zone but an ability to. A lot of smaller guys get manhandled and/or hurt when they spend a lot of time doing this. So they eventually move to wing so they can focus on the best parts of their game. Jack Quinn wanted to play center but reality hit him in the face. He had the tools.

Catton from the draft is a smaller guy who will probably be a center. Benson had most of the qualities too, but maybe his IQ can’t keep up with his elite motor.

When you say ability I don’t think it has much to do with size. There’s a really good reason why centers dominate the top of each draft year. It’s the hardest position to play.

Hockey IQ: you have to read the entire D zone, cover for the D and fill in for the wings when they rotate low. Center also have to understand how to exit the zone properly as F1, 2, and 3 and what each does. They tend to make the zone exit decisions and the have to read how the wings choose to enter the offensive zone and play off of it. Then they have to fill in low for the wings in the offensive zone.

Conditioning: centers play 200 feet all game.

Skating: center have to be good skaters.

Any of those could be reasons players don’t play center.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

When you say ability I don’t think it has much to do with size. There’s a really good reason why centers dominate the top of each draft year. It’s the hardest position to play.

Hockey IQ: you have to read the entire D zone, cover for the D and fill in for the wings when they rotate low. Center also have to understand how to exit the zone properly as F1, 2, and 3 and what each does. They tend to make the zone exit decisions and the have to read how the wings choose to enter the offensive zone and play off of it. Then they have to fill in low for the wings in the offensive zone.

Conditioning: centers play 200 feet all game.

Skating: center have to be good skaters.

Any of those could be reasons players don’t play center.

I just feel like NHL teams and people involved in the draft disagree with you on the size part. You make all good points that I agree with but are ignoring my main point - you often need to be strong to live down low, and for most guys it’s hard to be strong enough without the frame to support it.

There are different ways around it, but it takes unicorn traits to do that.