Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[SnuggaRUDE]

So I did two quick comparisons, simply in size:

I figured the lightning would be top of market and the coyotes would be bottom of market

Looking PURELY at scouts:

Tampa:

Official Tampa Bay Lightning Website | Tampa Bay Lightning

16 scouts, (6 amateur, 4 European, 5 professional, 1 goaltending). 1 director.

Coyotes

Official Site of the National Hockey League | NHL.com

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

15 scouts (3 pro scouts, 1 goaltending scout, 11 amateur scouts). 4 'directors'

Sabres: 11 scouts (no real designation). 3 directors (not incl in count)

I decided to check Columbus as I thought Arizona's numbers were high. 7 amateur, 3 pro, 3 consultants.

To give some more context here:

In March of 2020, the Sabres had 3 pro scouts and 15 amateur scouts

In Jan of 2021 they had 6 scouts.

So, they HAVE rebuilt the scouting department, though, it still appears to be on the smaller side compared to most NHL teams through sampling.

TL; DR

Scouting department has built back up, still less than 2/3rds of its original size after the 2020 Culling.

Nice detective work! Do we know if those are all full time positions across different organizations? Consultants sound part time to me, but not sure about the others, or how the workload of a 'director' compares.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Nice detective work! Do we know if those are all full time positions across different organizations? Consultants sound part time to me, but not sure about the others, or how the workload of a 'director' compares.

I assume a director is someone who schedules where the scouts go, and then occasionally goes to also scout a player.

A consultant is basically a free scout (or in office terms, they’re a temp).

Not sure if you guys care about this stuff, but Buffalo’s AGM Karmanos has been at both Avs games this week. Figured it was worth passing along.

Kovalenko to the Sabres confirmed! Yes I know he’s in the KHL

 

[Chainshot]

I assume a director is someone who schedules where the scouts go, and then occasionally goes to also scout a player.

A consultant is basically a free scout (or in office terms, they’re a temp).



Kovalenko to the Sabres confirmed! Yes I know he’s in the KHL

Consultants sometimes work part-time. They've had a number of them in various leagues who are assistant coaches and the like but also work for the Sabres almost like a gig job.

And I know they've used some people who never got into the media guide as consultants, including asking for opinions on specific individuals.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Consultants sometimes work part-time. They've had a number of them in various leagues who are assistant coaches and the like but also work for the Sabres almost like a gig job.

And I know they've used some people who never got into the media guide as consultants, including asking for opinions on specific individuals.

I was going the most simplistic way. Although I guess an easier way woulda been to say a part time scout. But I figured at that point they’d be labelled an amateur scout.

I’m just waiting for the day “HFSabres” gets listed as a scouting consultant

 

[TehDoak]

I was going the most simplistic way. Although I guess an easier way woulda been to say a part time scout. But I figured at that point they’d be labelled an amateur scout.

I’m just waiting for the day “HFSabres” gets listed as a scouting consultant

If I’m not mistaken they have consulted with a former poster here a few times….

 

[Chainshot]

If I’m not mistaken they have consulted with a former poster here a few times….

And a current one on one occasion too.

 

[Tatanka]

A lot of the USHL scouts I talked to at Steel games had deals with central scouting. Others had service packages where they provided stat updates to teams and woukd write ups of particular players upon request. Teams would purchase these write ups to compare with what they had in house. Very few, other than those working for colleges were employees of nhl teams or exclusively contracted for that matter.

 

[Djp]

We really should have protected 8 Skaters instead of 7 forwards 3 defensemen.

We lost Borgen to keep Olofsson, Asplund and Bjork? 2 guys who were out of the league a season and a half later. And Olofsson who will likely never earn another full time roster spot in his career.

And then Adams lowballed Ullmark so he tested FA?

Absolutely brutal 2nd offseason from Adams.

Hindsight with blinders on....

Asplund drafted in 2016 was just ending his ELC.
Bjork was just aquired as t prior deadline
Olofsson wasnt some three away

They planned their roster around 2020 expansion draft occurring as planned when many players would have been exempt.

Whomever Seattle picked youd be bitching about that.

Adams appears to have been a good Director of Amateur Scouting the last 4 years.

It's a shame that is not his job title and where his responsibilities end.

Or hed rather rebuild and not go out and sign bloated contracts.

There are many players we should have signed X and they ended up br a bad overpaid pickup.

He has a strategy of not signing bad contracts in UFAs

 

[Djp]

Asplund was high on all the hopeful list of all the media. Botts knew the team, but Thompson was not really the player type Francis was targeting. He wanted character and defensive ability. I have to think that almost everyone in the hockey world would have taken Asplund at the time over Thompson, but then that brings up the point that Adams and Granato were likely also very high on Asplund, which makes me wonder, what the hell actually happened to him.



The price to take on cap dumps instead of the guys Francis wanted was extremely high. Seattle's ownership group spent nearly 2 billion on their arena and the expansion fees. Francis was not in a position to buy draft picks with the owners money, and would only do so for a 1st in return.

Seattle is my local team, and there were several interviews where Francis himself said no one offered any picks to protect players. They all just wanted him to take on 7M dollar cap dumps for peanuts under the narrative that their expensive players they wanted to jetison were valuable.

Francis also had several comments about how the goal was to stockpile picks and build the team through the draft. They drafted Giordano, Larsson, Dunn, Oleksiak, Soucy, Lauzon, MacDermid, Cholowski and The Fleury brothers on top of Borgen on defense. They had 10 D that wouldn't pass through waivers and only had 7 draft picks. Borgen was an 8th D nearly the entire first season and hardly played, he was not that valuable to Hakstol or the organization, a couple of mid round picks would have been extremely enticing.

What I personally came away with from all of the team interviews, was that as long as you weren't asking Francis to take on cap dumps, he was open for business, but everyone was just looking to shed salary. The teams with extra players they couldn;t protect moved them before the draft after learning their lessons from the Vegas expansion.

Unlike vegas, teams had longer to strategize around their rosters and protections to not have to offer things to lose players.

I think he was asking for too much to take a player from teams thinking he could get it. They took his bluff.

Asplund finished his ELC before the red so he had potential in a bottom 6 role. Thrn you have peterka and Quinn have great roch years moving them above him which then banished him to 13F

 

[Irie]

Unlike vegas, teams had longer to strategize around their rosters and protections to not have to offer things to lose players.

I think he was asking for too much to take a player from teams thinking he could get it. They took his bluff.

Asplund finished his ELC before the red so he had potential in a bottom 6 role. Thrn you have peterka and Quinn have great roch years moving them above him which then banished him to 13F

There were half a dozen interviews about the expansion draft, and in everyone, Francis said zero teams approached him with offers to protect players.

No other GM refuted those claims, which makes me believe he is being honest.

Francis said if you want Seattle to take on a big salary cap dump, the price is a 1st round pick. We had multiple GMs complaining about that cost, so we know it was true (Duchene and Voracek). It wasn't that Francis was bluffing, it was that he was not in a position to spend freely after the arena cost and expansion fees for marginal players and had zero interest in taking on large cap dumps for minimal return.

As for Asplund, that question was rhetorical

 

[BFLO]

 

[Chainshot]

A lot of the USHL scouts I talked to at Steel games had deals with central scouting. Others had service packages where they provided stat updates to teams and woukd write ups of particular players upon request. Teams would purchase these write ups to compare with what they had in house. Very few, other than those working for colleges were employees of nhl teams or exclusively contracted for that matter.

There is one poster here who used to work scouting for a college too. They can tell that tale if they like.

 

[oldgoalie]

If I’m not mistaken they have consulted with a former poster here a few times….

You talking about Briere?

 

[Diaspora]

Disagree. They could absolutely use/need his money in 25-26 & 26-27. An aggressive GM could use his money in 24-25 as well. And they will be getting close to the cap if they intend on making meaningful competitive upgrades to this roster.

I suppose someone could want his final three years for $4.5 at 50% retained, but even that is starting to feel iffy if his effort and involvement continues to be nonexistent.

A buyout this summer is a nonstarter imo. The cap hits from 24-25 to 29-30 are 1.4, 4.4, 6.4, 2.4, 2.4, 2.4.

The 6.4 three years from now is the sticking point. That's a massive number in a season we should be fully competitive. Plus we'd get the most cap savings next year, when we'd need them the least, and drag hits of 2.4 through the life of all the big deals we just signed. Doesn't add up to me.

The cap and more importantly the roster spot/role being unshackled from his drag could be worth attaching futures to him.

Skinner costs us a ton of money in 26-27, no matter what we do. Here's what he costs that year:

Buyout in 2024, cap hit in 26-27: 6.4m
Buyout in 2025: 6.0m
Buyout in 2026: 5.6m
Finish the contract: 9.0m
Trade him at 50% retained: 4.5m

They should try to convince him to waive the NMC and give him away at 50% retained. If he doesn't waive, then it's only a matter of how badly you want him off the team.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I hope they keep Skinner around so I can hear the wailing of the posters, and the lamentations of the mods as Skinner drives them before him to the edge of insanity

 

[Zman5778]

I hope they keep Skinner around so I can hear the wailing of the posters, and the lamentations of the mods as Skinner drives them before him to the edge of insanity

You assume we're not already over said edge.

 

[Chainshot]

You talking about Briere?

That's a different guy too.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I hope they keep Skinner around so I can hear the wailing of the posters, and the lamentations of the mods as Skinner drives them before him to the edge of insanity

I’m going to be as annoying about Skinner as the poster who constantly blames about Comrie, even when he’s in the minors and hasn’t played in a month.

 

[TehDoak]

I hope they keep Skinner around so I can hear the wailing of the posters, and the lamentations of the mods as Skinner drives them before him to the edge of insanity

Even though buying out Skinner is objectively the right thing to do, I give it less than a 1% chance, unless Terry is visited by the ghosts of Sabres past, present, and future.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Even though buying out Skinner is objectively the right thing to do, I give it less than a 1% chance, unless Terry is visited by the ghosts of Sabres past, present, and future.

I think they do eventually, just not this offseason. They’ll do it when it’s too late, of course.

 

[Ace]

New 32 thoughts has a one sentence blurb that says teams are calling to ask about Tuch but Buffalo values him.

I am DYING to know what Kevyn Adams is thinking when he hears that question. Would you like to move your hometown first line player who wants to be there and is under contract for two more years? He has to realize why that call comes in, right? Do you think he ever stops and considers that this is what the rest of the league thinks of his plan? That he’s so far away not only should he be selling but he should be considering moving out guys with term…presumably for either more futures because he should blow it up…or for defense because his inaction has painted him into a corner where they think he must be that desperate.

I don’t want to hear this brushed off with “teams call on everyone…that’s thieir job”. Everyone doesn’t get called on. And everyone who is isn’t purposely reported by Friedman.

So what does Adams think when the stench of failure and/or desperation eminating from his four years of ”work” results in that phone call?

 

[HaNotsri]

New 32 thoughts has a one sentence blurb that says teams are calling to ask about Tuch but Buffalo values him.

I am DYING to know what Kevyn Adams is thinking when he hears that question. Would you like to move your hometown first line player who wants to be there and is under contract for two more years? He has to realize why that call comes in, right? Do you think he ever stops and considers that this is what the rest of the league thinks of his plan? That he’s so far away not only should he be selling but he should be considering moving out guys with term…presumably for either more futures because he should blow it up…or for defense because his inaction has painted him into a corner where they think he must be that desperate.

I don’t want to hear this brushed off with “teams call on everyone…that’s thieir job”. Everyone doesn’t get called on. And everyone who is isn’t purposely reported by Friedman.

So what does Adams think when the stench of failure and/or desperation eminating from his four years of ”work” results in that phone call?

I think our main problem is that both players and Pegs are loyal to "Don Adams."

The players that tried to force change (ROR, Eichel) ended up forcing themselves out instead of getting the team to change.

Tuch and Dahlin stepping up against management could change things but the only thing the team unites against are the fans under the banner of Okposo.

We need Captain Entitlement gone along with the management.

If we stay on Adams course trading Tuch is probably for the better. He gets to play meaningful games and Sabres get assets that can help the next GM in 2027 or so.

 

[TageGod]

I think our main problem is that both players and Pegs are loyal to "Don Adams."

The players that tried to force change (ROR, Eichel) ended up forcing themselves out instead of getting the team to change.

Tuch and Dahlin stepping up against management could change things but the only thing the team unites against are the fans under the banner of Okposo.

We need Captain Entitlement gone along with the management.

If we stay on Adams course trading Tuch is probably for the better. He gets to play meaningful games and Sabres get assets that can help the next GM in 2027 or so.

Such an odd take. Captain entitlement? From Okposo? I doubt any of our current players are feeling very entitled.

 

[Chainshot]

I think our main problem is that both players and Pegs are loyal to "Don Adams."

The players that tried to force change (ROR, Eichel) ended up forcing themselves out instead of getting the team to change.

Tuch and Dahlin stepping up against management could change things but the only thing the team unites against are the fans under the banner of Okposo.

We need Captain Entitlement gone along with the management.

If we stay on Adams course trading Tuch is probably for the better. He gets to play meaningful games and Sabres get assets that can help the next GM in 2027 or so.

Eichel forced out a coach he didn't like, then forced a trade after the team committed to him in both contract and captaincy. If we're going on about entitlement, he's the posterchild.

 

[HaNotsri]

Eichel forced out a coach he didn't like, then forced a trade after the team committed to him in both contract and captaincy. If we're going on about entitlement, he's the posterchild.

I'm not defending Eichel but it feels like we have a shitty continuity going on which is even worse than chaos.
Maybe the tradition is different in NA but I would never forgive the captain of the shl team I follow if they didn't salute the crowd.
The normal thing is giving the claque/tifosi appreciation even after a huge loss.

Hardcore fans almost doesn't watch the game since the focus is on providing optimal support and keeping the singing and energy up for the full game.