Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Jim Bob]

If Krebs is a sustainable 3C, with no external additions (and a Skinner buyout), we could be looking at a forward group like this next year:

Benson-Thompson-Peterka
Quinn-Mittelstadt-Cozens
Kulich/Savoie-Krebs-Tuch
Greenway-XXX-XXX

Add capable 4th liners and we have 3 really solid scoring lines.

That is an extremely young and relatively inexperienced forward group overall.

 

[Gras]

My guy. This is a direct quote from Pegula, not 2nd hand from an anonymous employee. Terry Pegula said he fired Botts to run the team more ECONOMICALLY. Adams then fires the entire hockey ops department on day 1 aside from a handful of guys to run a skeleton crew. Then after the failed Taylor hall experiment season he spends to the cap floor 2 years in a row and is still $8mil under the cap now.

Yes, he's worth 6 billion and didn't want to have to liquidate any assets for cash at a time when assets have been going up in value exponentially.

Sabres change course, fire Botterill as GM

The Sabres fired GM Jason Botterill less than a month after giving him a vote of confidence. Kevyn Adams was named GM.

www.espn.com

"We felt like we needed to be heard," co-owner Terry Pegula said during a video conference call. "I'm not going to sit here and dish on Jason Botterill, but we have a vision and we want to see our vision succeed.

"We were in detailed discussions with Jason, and how we felt we needed to move forward effectively, efficiently and economically running this franchise, we felt there were too many differences of opinion going into the future."

Where in the quotes does it talk about his familys lifestyle

 

[TehDoak]

If Krebs is a sustainable 3C, with no external additions (and a Skinner buyout), we could be looking at a forward group like this next year:

Benson-Thompson-Peterka
Quinn-Mittelstadt-Cozens
Kulich/Savoie-Krebs-Tuch
Greenway-XXX-XXX

Add capable 4th liners and we have 3 really solid scoring lines.

As much as I'd like for this to happen (and believe it needs to happen), it's not realistic with the ownership in bean counting mode with the Sabres

When the last coach played him on the 4th line, this whole board and whole city bashed Krueger for it. Everyone always thinks the problem on the team is the coach, but it's really the GM and owner's insistence that Skinner remain part of this team.

Granato saw the last coach be run out of town for playing Skinner too low in the lineup and won't repeat that mistake. He knows this team loses unless Skinnner has a great game, and that will always be the case until they buy him out.

I mean, I actually agreed that using Skinner down the lineup is a mistake because he simply can't play that way and having a 9M forward on the 4th line scoring 20 pts in a season doesn't help anyone either. But....at the very least, Skinner should be off PP1. I don't think you will ever get him out of the top 9 forwards, but he can play a reduced offensively sheltered line and give his premium ice time to someone more versatile.

 

[Tatanka]

Bills ownership is accustomed to a certain 'lifestyle' that could hurt its NFL franchise

 

[TehDoak]

This is a slide from a presentation given to PSE employees pre pandemic

Report: Bills Owner Kim Pegula Talked Budget Cuts; Sought to Maintain Lifestyle

Those employed by Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres owners Kim and Terry Pegula were reportedly left with a bad taste in their mouths following video conference meetings held in January...

bleacherreport.com

Essentially the Pegula's told employees (this was pre-covid, Jan 2020, even though the article is dated april 2020) that cuts were coming and one of the goals of PSE was to maintain the Pegula's lifestyle via ROI.

 

[Beerz]

My guy. This is a direct quote from Pegula, not 2nd hand from an anonymous employee. Terry Pegula said he fired Botts to run the team more ECONOMICALLY. Adams then fires the entire hockey ops department on day 1 aside from a handful of guys to run a skeleton crew. Then after the failed Taylor hall experiment season he spends to the cap floor 2 years in a row and is still $8mil under the cap now.

Yes, he's worth 6 billion and didn't want to have to liquidate any assets for cash at a time when assets have been going up in value exponentially.

Sabres change course, fire Botterill as GM

The Sabres fired GM Jason Botterill less than a month after giving him a vote of confidence. Kevyn Adams was named GM.

www.espn.com

"We felt like we needed to be heard," co-owner Terry Pegula said during a video conference call. "I'm not going to sit here and dish on Jason Botterill, but we have a vision and we want to see our vision succeed.

"We were in detailed discussions with Jason, and how we felt we needed to move forward effectively, efficiently and economically running this franchise, we felt there were too many differences of opinion going into the future."

I knew he said the efficiently and economically bit.. I watched it .

Streamlining the business ... cleaning out the bloat and the junk is not the same as "maintaining the family lifestyle".

They booted Botterill because he wouldn't fire people. They tore down the front office and have slowly built up a pretty good front office.

 

[thewookie1]

This is correct, but it is doubtful that losing Thompson was the concern. Most posters, yourself included, were much more worried about losing Asplund.

It is more than likely the Kraken would have passed on Thompson and Bjork and taken Asplund, (which would have also worked out well).

In hindsight, they didn't really even need to go the 8 skater route. Just protect Girgensons and expose Asplund, and Borgen is likely still here and solving the #4 RHD problem.

Thompson may have been grabbed due to Botts being on the staff there.

Hindsight is 20/20. At the time, exposing Olofsson would have been a poor decision.

What Adams could have done (and should have), is offer up a 3rd round pick (maybe a 3rd and a 5th) to Francis to have him select Bjork.

Francis was desperate for draft capital and he drafted like 12 defensemen in the expansion draft. The draft was also lacking speedy forwards.

Borgen was not a big enough prize to give up the chance at extra picks for Seattle, I think it would have been an easy sell had Adams tried.

Supposedly the price to protect specific players was absurd to the point nobody took the offer.

 

[Zman5778]

What?? We absolutely need a goalie. UPL needs a partner

UPL needs a capable backup. We don't need Markstrom

And frankly, Comrie was fine in his last start. He's been a fine backup before, so I don't really see a NEED to trade for a top-end goalie at this point.

Sign a guy like Ned or Copley or Stolarz or Wedgewood -- guys who are backups but can be capable for a stretch.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I knew he said the efficiently and economically bit.. I watched it .

Streamlining the business ... cleaning out the bloat and the junk is not the same as "maintaining the family lifestyle".

They booted Botterill because he wouldn't fire people. They tore down the front office and have slowly built up a pretty good front office.

How can you say they've built anything when they don't have pro scouts? The is arguably where they've failed the hardest. Front office is the main problem.

It's the worst FO in the league and no other team is close to being as bad.

I have no idea how Terry's budget fits into it and I don't care. They suck, and probably for a lot of different reasons.

 

[Zman5778]

How can you say they've built anything when they don't have pro scouts? The is arguably where they've failed the hardest. Front office is the main problem.

They've built parts of a very capable front office. We're hitting on a bunch of draft picks, so the amateur scouting department is doing well.


You are absolutely correct that our pro scouting "department" is abysmal. I wonder if that's part of Adams' inaction -- he doesn't have anyone in his ear about pro players from other franchises.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I mean, I actually agreed that using Skinner down the lineup is a mistake because he simply can't play that way and having a 9M forward on the 4th line scoring 20 pts in a season doesn't help anyone either. But....at the very least, Skinner should be off PP1. I don't think you will ever get him out of the top 9 forwards, but he can play a reduced offensively sheltered line and give his premium ice time to someone more versatile.

We can keep bringing in new coaches, who each try a different role for Skinner, but they'll all end the same.

You can't put him in the bottom 6 because you need them to fill a role that he will prevent them from fulfilling. And you can't put him on the top 6 because you need them to fill a role that he will prevent them from fulfilling...on most nights. Which is too many.

They've built parts of a very capable front office. We're hitting on a bunch of draft picks, so the amateur scouting department is doing well.


You are absolutely correct that our pro scouting "department" is abysmal. I wonder if that's part of Adams' inaction -- he doesn't have anyone in his ear about pro players from other franchises.

If half of my brain is missing, you can't say I have a great brain. The whole thing is broken.

 

[Zman5778]

If half of my brain is missing, you can't say I have a great brain. The whole thing is broken.

That's a bit too black and white. There are plenty of things that exist that might not be great as a whole.....but parts are certainly good.

We've got a car that can barely run, but the tires and paintjob are real nice.

 

[Irie]

Thompson may have been grabbed due to Botts being on the staff there.

Asplund was high on all the hopeful list of all the media. Botts knew the team, but Thompson was not really the player type Francis was targeting. He wanted character and defensive ability. I have to think that almost everyone in the hockey world would have taken Asplund at the time over Thompson, but then that brings up the point that Adams and Granato were likely also very high on Asplund, which makes me wonder, what the hell actually happened to him.

Supposedly the price to protect specific players was absurd to the point nobody took the offer.

The price to take on cap dumps instead of the guys Francis wanted was extremely high. Seattle's ownership group spent nearly 2 billion on their arena and the expansion fees. Francis was not in a position to buy draft picks with the owners money, and would only do so for a 1st in return.

Seattle is my local team, and there were several interviews where Francis himself said no one offered any picks to protect players. They all just wanted him to take on 7M dollar cap dumps for peanuts under the narrative that their expensive players they wanted to jetison were valuable.

Francis also had several comments about how the goal was to stockpile picks and build the team through the draft. They drafted Giordano, Larsson, Dunn, Oleksiak, Soucy, Lauzon, MacDermid, Cholowski and The Fleury brothers on top of Borgen on defense. They had 10 D that wouldn't pass through waivers and only had 7 draft picks. Borgen was an 8th D nearly the entire first season and hardly played, he was not that valuable to Hakstol or the organization, a couple of mid round picks would have been extremely enticing.

What I personally came away with from all of the team interviews, was that as long as you weren't asking Francis to take on cap dumps, he was open for business, but everyone was just looking to shed salary. The teams with extra players they couldn;t protect moved them before the draft after learning their lessons from the Vegas expansion.

 

[BB79]

UPL needs a capable backup. We don't need Markstrom

And frankly, Comrie was fine in his last start. He's been a fine backup before, so I don't really see a NEED to trade for a top-end goalie at this point.

Sign a guy like Ned or Copley or Stolarz or Wedgewood -- guys who are backups but can be capable for a stretch.

In your first post that I quoted, you said we don't need a goaltender. Now you said sign a guy like Copley or Stolarz. Why would we do that if we didn't need a goaltender?

And I completely disagree. We need a reliable veteran goalie. I should say needed, as this season is too far gone to salvage at this point in time. That should have been done last summer but they sat on their hands.

As for Comrie, the guy has started 4 games since Thanksgiving and has a single win from October. At best, he hasn't had enough playing time this season to prove if he can be reliable or not, their plan might be to play him more from here on out to get a better idea of whether to keep him or dump him at this point.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

That's a bit too black and white. There are plenty of things that exist that might not be great as a whole.....but parts are certainly good.

We've got a car that can barely run, but the tires and paintjob are real nice.

How do you even know his drafting has been good? It does seem good, I agree, but there is zero proof of that yet. I haven't seen any proof that any part of this org is better than the bottom 3 teams in this league.

Remember, they don't just have to be good -- they have to be good compared to the other teams in the NHL. Columbus and Anaheim draft just as well as Buffalo.

 

[SundherDome]

In your first post that I quoted, you said we don't need a goaltender. Now you said sign a guy like Copley or Stolarz. Why would we do that if we didn't need a goaltender?

And I completely disagree. We need a reliable veteran goalie. I should say needed, as this season is too far gone to salvage at this point in time. That should have been done last summer but they sat on their hands.

As for Comrie, the guy has started 4 games since Thanksgiving and has a single win from October. At best, he hasn't had enough playing time this season to prove if he can be reliable or not, their plan might be to play him more from here on out to get a better idea of whether to keep him or dump him at this point.

It should all depend on what their vision with Levi is. If they determine they want him to play another year in Rochester, then they need to find a backup next year. UPL is the number 1 and if there is a silver lining in this season, it is that. Copely worries me a bit with the ACL but throwing money at DeSmith or something like that could payoff

 

[Beerz]

How can you say they've built anything when they don't have pro scouts? The is arguably where they've failed the hardest. Front office is the main problem.

It's the worst FO in the league and no other team is close to being as bad.

I have no idea how Terry's budget fits into it and I don't care. They suck, and probably for a lot of different reasons.

Whether you think it's pretty good or not .. they have slowly built it back up.

 

[BFLO]

That's a bit too black and white. There are plenty of things that exist that might not be great as a whole.....but parts are certainly good.

We've got a car that can barely run, but the tires and paintjob are real nice.

Adams appears to have been a good Director of Amateur Scouting the last 4 years.

It's a shame that is not his job title and where his responsibilities end.

 

[TehDoak]

Whether you think it's pretty good or not .. they have slowly built it back up.

So I did two quick comparisons, simply in size:

I figured the lightning would be top of market and the coyotes would be bottom of market

Looking PURELY at scouts:

Tampa:

Official Tampa Bay Lightning Website | Tampa Bay Lightning

16 scouts, (6 amateur, 4 European, 5 professional, 1 goaltending). 1 director.

Coyotes

Official Site of the National Hockey League | NHL.com

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

15 scouts (3 pro scouts, 1 goaltending scout, 11 amateur scouts). 4 'directors'

Sabres: 11 scouts (no real designation). 3 directors (not incl in count)

I decided to check Columbus as I thought Arizona's numbers were high. 7 amateur, 3 pro, 3 consultants.

To give some more context here:

In March of 2020, the Sabres had 3 pro scouts and 15 amateur scouts

In Jan of 2021 they had 6 scouts.

So, they HAVE rebuilt the scouting department, though, it still appears to be on the smaller side compared to most NHL teams through sampling.

TL; DR

Scouting department has built back up, still less than 2/3rds of its original size after the 2020 Culling.

 

[Beerz]

And Frank has us linked

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

And Frank has us linked

I think he's just regurgitating Friedman's speculation, and we know EF has no sources in the Sabres org.

 

[Zman5778]

And Frank has us linked

The idea of Laughton is intriguing: 3rd/4th line center. Solid defensively. PKs well. Doesn't take shifts off. Not afraid to be physical.

BUT

He frankly has sucked out loud this year. He's not that guy in the faceoff dot.


He'd be a reclamation, for sure........and it's entirely possible that he just gets worse from here.

That Seravelli puts a Goodrow-like value on him is certifiably insane. MAYBE I'd give Philly a mid-round pick and pray for the best. Otherwise, pass.

 

[Chainshot]

The idea of Laughton is intriguing: 3rd/4th line center. Solid defensively. PKs well. Doesn't take shifts off. Not afraid to be physical.

BUT

He frankly has sucked out loud this year. He's not that guy in the faceoff dot.


He'd be a reclamation, for sure........and it's entirely possible that he just gets worse from here.

That Seravelli puts a Goodrow-like value on him is certifiably insane. MAYBE I'd give Philly a mid-round pick and pray for the best. Otherwise, pass.

This seems like talking heads talking up value (as they do when they talk down value) as a way of trying to help someone set market pricing.

Laughton for like a 3rd? Sure. For more than that? Nah.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

This seems like talking heads talking up value (.as they do when they talk down value) as a way of trying to help someone set market pricing.

Laughton for like a 3rd? Sure. For more than that? Nah.

Con: I can absolutely see KA moving too much for Laughton.

Pro: I can't see him moving the equivalent of a 1st.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Not sure if you guys care about this stuff, but Buffalo’s AGM Karmanos has been at both Avs games this week. Figured it was worth passing along.