Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[My Cozen Dylan]

Disagree. They could absolutely use/need his money in 25-26 & 26-27. An aggressive GM could use his money in 24-25 as well. And they will be getting close to the cap if they intend on making meaningful competitive upgrades to this roster.

I suppose someone could want his final three years for $4.5 at 50% retained, but even that is starting to feel iffy if his effort and involvement continues to be nonexistent.

A buyout this summer is a nonstarter imo. The cap hits from 24-25 to 29-30 are 1.4, 4.4, 6.4, 2.4, 2.4, 2.4.

The 6.4 three years from now is the sticking point. That's a massive number in a season we should be fully competitive. Plus we'd get the most cap savings next year, when we'd need them the least, and drag hits of 2.4 through the life of all the big deals we just signed. Doesn't add up to me.

The cap and more importantly the roster spot/role being unshackled from his drag could be worth attaching futures to him.

I really don't think it's that big of a deal. His role is likely replaced by guys on ELCs anyway.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Disagree. They could absolutely use/need his money in 25-26 & 26-27. An aggressive GM could use his money in 24-25 as well. And they will be getting close to the cap if they intend on making meaningful competitive upgrades to this roster.

I suppose someone could want his final three years for $4.5 at 50% retained, but even that is starting to feel iffy if his effort and involvement continues to be nonexistent.

A buyout this summer is a nonstarter imo. The cap hits from 24-25 to 29-30 are 1.4, 4.4, 6.4, 2.4, 2.4, 2.4.

The 6.4 three years from now is the sticking point. That's a massive number in a season we should be fully competitive. Plus we'd get the most cap savings next year, when we'd need them the least, and drag hits of 2.4 through the life of all the big deals we just signed. Doesn't add up to me.

The cap and more importantly the roster spot/role being unshackled from his drag could be worth attaching futures to him.

Don’t tell that to Bill Guerin, a man with standards and respect around the league.

The truth is, most GMs would just buyout Skinner in this circumstance. Anyone who says otherwise has Stockholm syndrome and willing to justify anything.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Don’t tell that to Bill Guerin, a man with standards and respect around the league.

The truth is, most GMs would just buyout Skinner in this circumstance. Anyone who says otherwise has Stockholm syndrome and willing to justify anything.

Good GMs make it work, and good owners don't give a crap because they're still not spending over the cap either way.

 

[Beerz]

Don’t tell that to Bill Guerin, a man with standards and respect around the league.

The truth is, most GMs would just buyout Skinner in this circumstance. Anyone who says otherwise has Stockholm syndrome and willing to justify anything.

Honestly this is the funniest post I've seen.... from Bill Guerin a joke of a GM himself ..

To this fantasy that any GM would buy Skinner out next year. Not reality.

 

[Irie]

What's the best prospect/pick/package you'd attach to Skinner to get a team to take him with zero retention? It might be the best use for our excess futures at this point.

Skinner is still owed 22M after this season.

I don't think there is a reasonable package that gets another team to take on that contract, and it is absolutely not worth completely gutting the farm depth to get him off the books.

Next year he earns 10M. After that, he is down to 12M over the final two years. I still don't think anyone will take that contract in 2025, but a buyout at that point may start to make sense.

 

[HOOats]

Don’t tell that to Bill Guerin, a man with standards and respect around the league.

The truth is, most GMs would just buyout Skinner in this circumstance. Anyone who says otherwise has Stockholm syndrome and willing to justify anything.

No, no. It's more that the math doesn't make sense. Maybe we can call that Malmo syndrome or something.

I really don't think it's that big of a deal. His role is likely replaced by guys on ELCs anyway.

It's not a one for one thing though. If we could get Skinner's cap totally erased and replace him with Kulich on ELC say, we'd have $8M to repair other much needed spots.

Skinner is still owed 22M after this season.

I don't think there is a reasonable package that gets another team to take on that contract, and it is absolutely not worth completely gutting the farm depth to get him off the books.

Next year he earns 10M. After that, he is down to 12M over the final two years. I still don't think anyone will take that contract in 2025, but a buyout at that point may start to make sense.

What do you consider gutting the farm? I'm not sure it would require that, but that's why I asked the original question. Hypothetically, if we offered Savoie and Skinner for a 7th, you don't think anyone would bite? Would you consider that gutting the farm?

Agreed that a buyout after next season is the most reasonable path, but this situation appears to be coming to a head sooner than we'd like with his play and effort falling off a cliff. It's only causing on-ice issues so far, off-ice could be around the corner.

 

[Irie]

Hypothetically, if we offered Savoie and Skinner for a 7th, you don't think anyone would bite? Would you consider that gutting the farm?

I don't think any team in the league touches that offer. The teams that have the cap to afford Skinner mostly have internal financial restrictions. Chicago may be the one team that could fit him in their cap and not blink at the actual cost left on his deal, but why would they take on that contract for only Savoie?

I think we are looking at 3 1st round picks equivalent at a minimum to shed 22M in real dollars and 27M in cap.

Add that Skinner is not likely to waive his NMC, and a buyout is probably the only option - but like you said, a Buyout this off-season is still really brutal.

Agreed that a buyout after next season is the most reasonable path, but this situation appears to be coming to a head sooner than we'd like with his play and effort falling off a cliff. It's only causing on-ice issues so far, off-ice could be around the corner.

Personally I think they will just live with Skinners cap hit for the next two season (which is going to suck), and then buy him out in 2026.

 

[HOOats]

I don't think any team in the league touches that offer. The teams that have the cap to afford Skinner mostly have internal financial restrictions. Chicago may be the one team that could fit him in their cap and not blink at the actual cost left on his deal, but why would they take on that contract for only Savoie?

I think we are looking at 3 1st round picks equivalent at a minimum to shed 22M in real dollars and 27M in cap.

Add that Skinner is not likely to waive his NMC, and a buyout is probably the only option - but like you said, a Buyout this off-season is still really brutal.



Personally I think they will just live with Skinners cap hit for the next two season (which is going to suck), and then buy him out in 2026.

Well laid out. It's a big problem without an obvious solution, which is why I wanted to explore the boundaries of it.

Seeing how valuable cap relief is to desperate teams, I'm getting pissed again that we haven't been weaponizing our extra room for the last few seasons. We could be stocked with a couple extra picks right now to help us maneuver our own puzzles.

 

[Irie]

Well laid out. It's a big problem without an obvious solution, which is why I felt like exploring the boundaries of it.

Seeing how valuable cap relief is to desperate teams, I'm getting pissed that we haven't been weaponizing our extra room for the last few seasons. We could be stocked with a couple extra picks right now to help us maneuver our own puzzles.

I agree, but I blame Guerin for screwing up the market last year taking on cap dumps for peanuts.

 

[BB79]

Rangers fan here
Are Oloffson and Grig of any value as rentals ?
I imagine they come cheap at 50 off

Okposo resigning?

Never doubt the stupidity of Sabres upper management. They'll give you 95% off

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Only 2 options with Skinner - ride it out or buy him out.

He came here to be close to family in TO, and only re-signed for the same reason. He's not waiving for anyone but the Leafs, and they're loaded with the best he can be on his best nights.

We're probably stuck with him for 3 more seasons. Fml.

 

[Archie Lee]

Only 2 options with Skinner - ride it out or buy him out.

He came here to be close to family in TO, and only re-signed for the same reason. He's not waiving for anyone but the Leafs, and they're loaded with the best he can be on his best nights.

We're probably stuck with him for 3 more seasons. Fml.

Things change. I have no reason to think you are wrong, but he might be willing to waive for a small # of teams aside from the Leafs.

Somewhat interestingly, Skinner has averaged 29 goals per 82 games through his career, which was also his average per 82 games as a Hurricane, and is his average per 82 as a Sabre, and so far this season. Basically he just scores about 30 goals per 82 games played.

Skinner's contract was terrible from the moment it was signed. I think though that there are teams that would gamble on his 29 goals per 82 games at 50% retention ($4.5 million per season). Would one of those teams be a team he would waive for? Would we eat 50%?

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Only 2 options with Skinner - ride it out or buy him out.

He came here to be close to family in TO, and only re-signed for the same reason. He's not waiving for anyone but the Leafs, and they're loaded with the best he can be on his best nights.

We're probably stuck with him for 3 more seasons. Fml.

He did waive his NMC for the Seattle draft. Of course he probably also knew there was no way they were taking him. And it was also a favour to the Sabres, but now I can’t even remember who the team protected instead.

 

[Irie]

Bjork

 

[Archie Lee]

He did waive his NMC for the Seattle draft. Of course he probably also knew there was no way they were taking him. And it was also a favour to the Sabres, but now I can’t even remember who the team protected instead.

The 7 forwards we protected were Eichel, Reinhart, Thompson, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Asplund and Bjork. We protected Ristolainen, Dahlin and Jokiharju on defence.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

He did waive his NMC for the Seattle draft. Of course he probably also knew there was no way they were taking him. And it was also a favour to the Sabres, but now I can’t even remember who the team protected instead.

Maybe he waives for a shot at the Cup at some point. 3 more years after this gives him plenty of wiggle room though.

 

[Gras]

Maybe he waives for a shot at the Cup at some point. 3 more years after this gives him plenty of wiggle room though.

Most cup contenders wont have the cap space to take him on

 

[Chainshot]

Most cup contenders wont have the cap space to take him on

Nor will they have the inclination that someone completely untested in the playoffs at his age is going to be a help.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

The 7 forwards we protected were Eichel, Reinhart, Thompson, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Asplund and Bjork. We protected Ristolainen, Dahlin and Jokiharju on defence.

You know this team is shit when I remember that tidbit about Skinner, while at the same time remember that they left Hasek unprotected in 1993 and I’m still angry about that lol

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Don’t tell that to Bill Guerin, a man with standards and respect around the league.

The truth is, most GMs would just buyout Skinner in this circumstance. Anyone who says otherwise has Stockholm syndrome and willing to justify anything.

Nothing says discussion board like: agree with me or you have a mental deficiency. Truly next gen posting.

 

[TehDoak]

Re: Skinner.

He's one of the few vets, gives inconsistent efforts, won't touch the defensive zone, his TOI doesn't drop, he's stapled to the top PP unit despite it struggling badly.

What kind of message does that send to the rest of the team? It's a coaching problem and it's a Skinner problem.

Just do what it takes to get him gone. He's emblematic of the issues here.

 

[VaporTrail]

Re: Skinner.

He's one of the few vets, gives inconsistent efforts, won't touch the defensive zone, his TOI doesn't drop, he's stapled to the top PP unit despite it struggling badly.

What kind of message does that send to the rest of the team? It's a coaching problem and it's a Skinner problem.

Just do what it takes to get him gone. He's emblematic of the issues here.

I'm afraid we're going to be stuck with Skinner and this losing culture for a while
..Until a real GM and coach take over I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Jim Bob]

Ducks sweep season series with Buffalo as Sabres hit another low

The Sabres outshot the Ducks 36-15 but still found a way to lose because six of the 15 shots they allowed were high-danger chances.

theathletic.com

Last week in a radio interview on WGR 550, Adams summed up the Sabres’ issues succinctly.

“I think there’s been times where we’ve maybe gotten away from our identity and we’ve been caught in the middle,” Adams said. “Not a good offensive team and certainly not a good defensive team. I think when you’re caught in the middle in this league you’re dead.”

That’s exactly where the Sabres are a few weeks before the NHL trade deadline.

 

[Chainshot]

Ducks sweep season series with Buffalo as Sabres hit another low

The Sabres outshot the Ducks 36-15 but still found a way to lose because six of the 15 shots they allowed were high-danger chances.

theathletic.com

Good to know they think it is an either or instead of being basically responsible at both ends of the ice.

 

[Jim Bob]

Good to know they think it is an either or instead of being basically responsible at both ends of the ice.

The past 12 months, I think both the Bills and Sabres listened too much to the outside noise and it led to less than optimal results.

For the Bills, it was all the stuff around how Josh Allen needs to run less so that he doesn't have his career shortened like Cam Newton.

For the Sabres, it was that they needed to get better defensively to compete in the playoffs.

Sometimes, that is like telling Mariano Rivera that he needs to develop a new pitch because he throws the cutter too much.