Speculation: Roster Speculation: Part XVI (Off-Season Madness)

[Der Jaeger]

Yep, they're terrible... I don't have any solution at D this offseason. The Oilers forums are the same way. Good D-man are just impossible to find, you need to draft and develop them.

I'm struggling with the same thing. Brodin, Scandella, Fowler, etc. Buffalo doesn't have an extra center to trade now with Grigorenko moved, and that's what everyone's looking for, it seems.

Best I think they'll do is a flawed free agent (Yandle, Russell, Goligoski). I don't think Campbell comes home and Hamhuis doesn't come East.

Maybe Enstrom? Though I don't see Winnipeg moving him. Small trade for Wiercoich? Merrill?

Probably the best thing to do is go heavy on defense this draft and reload. Juolevi/Chychrun/Sergachev in the first. Niemelainen/Clague in the second or in a small trade up. Fliers on Krys and/or Day later.

 

[EichHart]

I'm struggling with the same thing. Brodin, Scandella, Fowler, etc. Buffalo doesn't have an extra center to trade now with Grigorenko moved, and that's what everyone's looking for, it seems.

Best I think they'll do is a flawed free agent (Yandle, Russell, Goligoski). I don't think Campbell comes home and Hamhuis doesn't come East.

Maybe Enstrom? Though I don't see Winnipeg moving him. Small trade for Wiercoich? Merrill?

Probably the best thing to do is go heavy on defense this draft and reload. Juolevi/Chychrun/Sergachev in the first. Niemelainen/Clague in the second or in a small trade up. Fliers on Krys and/or Day later.

I think we do something with Minny, not sure what but maybe something around Girgs/Pysyk/2016 2nd/3rds and then take the best available d man at 8.

 

[Chainshot]

Campbell's got zero ties to Buffalo -- he's married now, his second home is in Chicago. He's been gone forever.

Zdano Chara has new twins and I can't see him uprooting to go anywhere.

Alex Edler has a NTC and seems like someone who should be perfect as a PMD/breakout guy for Ristolainen but has stated he won't leave Vancouver.

Anaheim can't be forced into a deal.

St. Louis has their blueline locked up long-term on mostly excellent contracts.

Scandella seems ideal, but Minny fans are hanging on for some sort of center prospect to take the mantel as a #1 guy -- not something I can see anyone doing for Scandella or the much less flashy Brodin. Seriously.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Campbell's got zero ties to Buffalo -- he's married now, his second home is in Chicago. He's been gone forever.

Zdano Chara has new twins and I can't see him uprooting to go anywhere.

Alex Edler has a NTC and seems like someone who should be perfect as a PMD/breakout guy for Ristolainen but has stated he won't leave Vancouver.

Anaheim can't be forced into a deal.

St. Louis has their blueline locked up long-term on mostly excellent contracts.

Scandella seems ideal, but Minny fans are hanging on for some sort of center prospect to take the mantel as a #1 guy -- not something I can see anyone doing for Scandella or the much less flashy Brodin. Seriously.

Scandella or Brodin seem like the best candidates. Maybe Fletcher really likes Girgensons and thinks he can center their second or third lines well enough to make the trade.

 

[dkollidas]

I wonder how available a guy like Bouwmeester will be?

Blues need to make room to try to re-sign one or both of Shwartz & Backes. Plus Shattenkirk's going into the last year of his deal.

Bouwmeester adds a competent QB type that doesn't have a ton of flash, but is solid at getting the puck up the ice, is big enough to not get manhandled but agile enough to keep up with quicker forwards. Something around Pysyk and picks for Bouwmeester?

While some/most of usthought Nash was the overpriced player that Murray might be talking about when he discussed getting players at a discount bc of their contract, maybe Bouwmeester is the guy that he had in mind?

He could eat a lot of minutes next to Ristolainen and add a calming, qb like presence on the back end, and be a buffer for whomever we draft at #8 if it was a defenseman.

The only thing I don't like is his age, at 32 he's an old man with this group. Is he worth young talent?

 

[Captain Holt]

I have no problem trading #8 for Shattenkirk. The Blues fans seemed to agree with it.

Don't care about the Left/Right thing and the UFA part also doesn't bother me. Worked out fine with ROR.

 

[truthbluth]

I'm struggling with the same thing. Brodin, Scandella, Fowler, etc. Buffalo doesn't have an extra center to trade now with Grigorenko moved, and that's what everyone's looking for, it seems.

Best I think they'll do is a flawed free agent (Yandle, Russell, Goligoski). I don't think Campbell comes home and Hamhuis doesn't come East.

Maybe Enstrom? Though I don't see Winnipeg moving him. Small trade for Wiercoich? Merrill?

Probably the best thing to do is go heavy on defense this draft and reload. Juolevi/Chychrun/Sergachev in the first. Niemelainen/Clague in the second or in a small trade up. Fliers on Krys and/or Day later.

I get the point, but look how successful Pitt has been with Daley, who couldn't break into the top 4 in Dallas. Dallas also landed Oduya last year, and San Jose got a lot out of Paul Martin. Anaheim got Simon Despres for basically nothing. Last year the Islanders pulled in Leddy and Boychuk for 2 2nds and a prospect. These deals do happen. But we do need a long term solution for Risto's partner, and that will probably have to come via the draft.

My off the radar guys that GMTM could be targeting:
UFA-JM Liles
Trade-Andrei Markov

 

[TehDoak]

I wonder how available a guy like Bouwmeester will be?

Blues need to make room to try to re-sign one or both of Shwartz & Backes. Plus Shattenkirk's going into the last year of his deal.

Bouwmeester adds a competent QB type that doesn't have a ton of flash, but is solid at getting the puck up the ice, is big enough to not get manhandled but agile enough to keep up with quicker forwards. Something around Pysyk and picks for Bouwmeester?

While some/most of usthought Nash was the overpriced player that Murray might be talking about when he discussed getting players at a discount bc of their contract, maybe Bouwmeester is the guy that he had in mind?

He could eat a lot of minutes next to Ristolainen and add a calming, qb like presence on the back end, and be a buffer for whomever we draft at #8 if it was a defenseman.

The only thing I don't like is his age, at 32 he's an old man with this group. Is he worth young talent?

Depends on the ask. He's still mobile enough to be effective, but he doesn't really QB the powerplay much anymore (nor does he get much PP time). Issue is that, like Buffalo, they lack LH d-men. We'll see what happens. He also has a NTC, so the details might depend. I'd give up some pieces for him, but not one of the big wingers (Fasching, Bailey) or Girgensons, or a 1st.

 

[OkimLom]

I have no problem trading #8 for Shattenkirk. The Blues fans seemed to agree with it.

Don't care about the Left/Right thing and the UFA part also doesn't bother me. Worked out fine with ROR.

I'm sure there was more added to the #8 pick. If all it takes to get Shattenkirk is the #8 pick We should be doing it the moment St. Louis is out of the playoffs.

 

[OkimLom]

And all those teams that make it to the last 4 teams usually have at least 1 of the great d-man and another 1-3 very good defenseman. The spaces represent the gaps. I think the west has a large advantage in competent d man.

Chicago

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson

LA

Doughty

Muzzin

Martinez/Voynov

San Jose

Burns
Vlasic

Blues

Pietrangelo

Shattenkirk
Parayko

Bouwmeester

Pens

Letang

Daley
Maatta

Lightning

Hedman
Stralman

Almost agree with you:

Chicago

Keith
>
>
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson

LA
Doughty
>
>
Muzzin
>
Martinez/Voynov

San Jose

Burns
Vlasic

Blues

Pietrangelo
Shattenkirk
>
>
>
Parayko
>
Bouwmeester

Pens

Letang
>
>
Maatta
Daley


Lightning

Hedman
>
>
Stralman

 

[tsujimoto74]

I wonder how available a guy like Bouwmeester will be?

Blues need to make room to try to re-sign one or both of Shwartz & Backes. Plus Shattenkirk's going into the last year of his deal.

Bouwmeester adds a competent QB type that doesn't have a ton of flash, but is solid at getting the puck up the ice, is big enough to not get manhandled but agile enough to keep up with quicker forwards. Something around Pysyk and picks for Bouwmeester?

While some/most of usthought Nash was the overpriced player that Murray might be talking about when he discussed getting players at a discount bc of their contract, maybe Bouwmeester is the guy that he had in mind?

He could eat a lot of minutes next to Ristolainen and add a calming, qb like presence on the back end, and be a buffer for whomever we draft at #8 if it was a defenseman.

The only thing I don't like is his age, at 32 he's an old man with this group. Is he worth young talent?

I think you're overestimating what Bouwmeester would cost a bit. He's really taken a step back this year. He's not the skater he once was, and he doesn't have the hockey IQ to be as effective without it. Pietrangelo has really carried him. I'd guess you could get a deal done with picks alone, or picks and mediocre prospects. I'd absolutely take him here, given what we've got for LHD, but he's definitely not an ideal answer to our D woes, even in the short term.

 

[Man of Principles]

I wouldn't care the slightest about right or left handedness if it meant we could flip #8 for Shattenkirk. He's a huge asset to have on the back end. Wouldn't think twice about it.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

I have no problem trading #8 for Shattenkirk. The Blues fans seemed to agree with it.

Don't care about the Left/Right thing and the UFA part also doesn't bother me. Worked out fine with ROR.

I do care about the left/right thing. It's damn important we get a LHD. We have all the RHD we need.

 

[Myllz]

I do care about the left/right thing. It's damn important we get a LHD. We have all the RHD we need.

While it is important, you still send the #8 for Shattenkirk every time, he's more than worth it. Pretty moot though, the Blues would never do it without adding to the pick.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I posted that I wanted a setup with Reinhart as the 3rd line center. I said its the best of both worlds because we would still have 2 of our top 3 centers as strong defensive centers but we'd also have more offensive punch from the 3rd line. You initially disagreed (your original point) because you want 2 of our top 3 centers as strong defensive centers. Thats a tad confusing

How would Larsson be wasted used in a Kruger type of role? He would play more minutes than a typical 4th liner.

Which is all the more reason he should get a shot at center. I know our GM wants to see it.

He would be in the same role Getzlaf had on the Cup winning Ducks and Giroux had when the Flyers made it to the Cups Finals.

I never said anything about 3 "top" lines. I'm basically arguing for a more offensively potent version of the line structure we currently have. That being two strong defensive lines and a scoring line. A setup you have said more than a few times you like and want kept.

Your point about the wingers basically supports my argument about having three strong centers. Its allows us to have interchangeable wingers moving up and down those 3 lines since the centers are the driving forces of their lines.

ROR had a GF% of 42.7% and Eichel's was 43.8%. They lost their matchups for the season by a decent margin. Our 3rd line whether centered by Girgs or Larsson won their matchup. But it was such a low scoring line that it did little to help overcome the top two lines losing their matchups

By having an offensively inept 3rd line and hoping ROR's line can improve to at least hold serve. We would be putting enormous pressure on Eichel and his line to do some big time lifting offensively. He would basically have to be Kane to ROR's Toews. And thats with ROR just holding serve.

The lineup I'm envisioning is one where a 3rd line centered by Reinhart would be the secondary defensive AND offensive line. One that can take advantage of matchups offensively. It would take a ton of pressure off the top 2 lines offensively. The hope is it develops to the point that it makes teams struggle to matchup against them and Eichel's line. Something I don't see happening with Larsson or Girgs centering the 3rd line. It would also help get ROR's ice time down into a less demanding range.

Josh - as usual you put forward a well thought out arguement & I'm not going to nitpick / respond to every last sentence. I'll just agree to disagree (even though I don't think we see things too much differently as part of the bigger picture).

Just a couple of points though:

- I'd like to see ROR/Eichel/Reinhart all get as much ice time as possible. They should all be capable of it. I don't see a reason to limit your best players ice time (within reason).
- I'm also assuming these guys (Eichel in particular) to get much better over the next couple of years. This past season isn't where they peak
- No reason to think Eichel can't be dominant & be capable of the offensive 'heavy lifting' all on his own - never mind having Reinhart alongside him doing it together.
- ROR has already proved he's capable of the big defensive work & I bet he's able to put up half decent offensive numbers doing it. I don't expect him to regress - I can only see him getting better as well.
- As I am constantly saying of these forums - its the defence & defence only that needs work. Give these guys a couple of decent blueline pairing to work with & then watch the results....

Basically I just don't see a situation where these two top lines will have too many problems winning matchups moving forward. I see no reason to dilute these lines further. With Larsson at 3C (with a couple of wingers who fit) you then have a rock solid defensive line that may not put up a lot of points (they shouldn't need to) but who should be able to nullify, frustrate & drain whoever they play against.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

If I'm a college player, unless they are willing to bend over backwards for me after year 2 or 3 like we did with Fasching, I'd be walking to UFA too.

It's simple: if a college player isn't willing to sign with you after year 3, you move his rights for assets assuming he may walk.

College players can always finish their degrees in the offseason if that is important to them.

Who knows what Vesey really wants. If he wants to play in Boston for his childhood team...he has the option to do that as a rookie. If he signs with Nashville, he could get injured and NEVER have that opportunity.

Would you be saying all this if it was Buffalo instead of Nashville ?

 

[Sabre Dance]

When it comes down to it I think we overpay in free agency for a LHD and probably trade for someone like Patrick Wiercioch for cheap.

 

[Myllz]

When it comes down to it I think we overpay in free agency for a LHD and probably trade for someone like Patrick Wiercioch for cheap.

For who? I can easily see Murray trying to trade for Wiercioch, though. I'd be fine with that as long as the price isn't stupid.

 

[Reddawg]

For who? I can easily see Murray trying to trade for Wiercioch, though. I'd be fine with that as long as the price isn't stupid.

Is Ennis for Wiercioch and a 2nd totally bat****? Kinda makes sense to me.

 

[Myllz]

Is Ennis for Wiercioch and a 2nd totally bat****? Kinda makes sense to me.

Ennis has basically zero trade value right now. I doubt Ottawa trades Wiercioch straight up for Ennis right now.

 

[Sabre Dance]

For who? I can easily see Murray trying to trade for Wiercioch, though. I'd be fine with that as long as the price isn't stupid.

Keith Yandle IMO has Sabres written all over him. Friends with Eichel, big name, PP QB.

I know people here are scared of his defense, but I just see it happening.

 

[TehDoak]

Would you be saying all this if it was Buffalo instead of Nashville ?

Sure. We lost a 1st rounder back in the day (Heistein). Not sure why they didn't fix that loop hole in the 2 CBA revisions we've had in the last 11 years. Much like how you don't let regular UFAs get to June being unsigned ala Briere/Drury, treat college UFAs the same way. And ask them if they are OK with signing before their UFA year BEFORE you draft them.

 

[dotcommunism]

Sure. We lost a 1st rounder back in the day (Heistein). Not sure why they didn't fix that loop hole in the 2 CBA revisions we've had in the last 11 years. Much like how you don't let regular UFAs get to June being unsigned ala Briere/Drury, treat college UFAs the same way. And ask them if they are OK with signing before their UFA year BEFORE you draft them.

Because it's not a loophole. It's how the rules are quite explicitly and overtly designed.

 

[thewookie1]

Keith Yandle IMO has Sabres written all over him. Friends with Eichel, big name, PP QB.

I know people here are scared of his defense, but I just see it happening.

Yandle's D is suspect but pair him with a Defensive Dman and he'd be an elite 2nd LHD

I'm unsure how he'd do with Risto but I'd guess Risto would adapt.


We are lucky to have one of the best 2-way forwards in ROR along with Larsson, Reinhart and Girgs. Not to mention Kane also back checks so we may actually be safe picking up a "4th Forward"

 

[Zip15]

I'm not saying it has to be Yandle, but this team needs some puck-movers on the back end. I was sick over the weekend so I watched a few of the DVR'd games from this season - they ran the gamut from good games to stinkers - and I don't think enough people realize how poor the defense corps is at transitioning from defense to offense, and getting the puck up ice.