Speculation: Roster Speculation: Part XVI (Off-Season Madness)

[joshjull]

I like Zemgus also. 35 point two-way player is more realistic. 15-20 goals and 15-20 assists.

50 is fantasy at this point.

I agree thats the most likely scenario. 50pts isn't that likely since that would require PP ice time and more ES ice time than he got last year.

 

[Jame]

I think it's funny that any comparison of any players comes down to having or the other eventually on these boards. I understand where it comes from, but with a few of those that tend to lean on the hyperbole side, it could get really outrageous. At the end of the day you, in the context of Girgs vs Larsson, you need both guys, and both guys bring you games to the team that has a positive influence on the team.

Between the cap and expansion decisions will need to be made... But I don't think anybody has really made an either/or argument regarding those two outside of that context, or the context of assets we can use to get an LD

 

[haseoke39]

Let's be honest here, if all that we lost in the expansion draft was Ennis, where do we sign up?

I'm sure GMTM feels the same way....higher cap hit and doesn't fit his type of team

Guys just make up what Tim Murray looks for in a player and ignore deals he actually signs. You know he signed Ennis to that deal, right? And Moulson for that matter, the softer of the two?

 

[joshjull]

Based on how I think Murray views the players I would say both Ennis and Foligno would be ahead of Larsson.

One of the things working against Ennis is the need for a certain % of cap space to be exposed. I think its 20% or 25%. At least its been speculated that will be part of the rules. Larsson right now is on a great deal for what he brings. As Jame pointed out from a cost benefit perspective Larsson would be the smarter one to protect.

Having said this, its hard to say for certain who would be protected outside of the obvious players until next season plays out. Both Murray and Disco sound as if they have a few ideas that may lead to some tweaks to how things were last year. Then there are also trades which may make this debate moot.

 

[Jame]

Guys just make up what Tim Murray looks for in a player and ignore deals he actually signs. You know he signed Ennis to that deal, right? And Moulson for that matter, the softer of the two?

Do you really see any relevance in those contracts? I don't. Cap floor. Period.

 

[haseoke39]

Do you really see any relevance in those contracts? I don't. Cap floor. Period.

Yeah, that's why he signed them for five years.

 

[joshjull]

2017 is what I've seen suggested. If it's 2018, that's a whole different story.

That would really suck if its moved back a year.

 

[stokes84]

Yeah, that's why he signed them for five years.

I see far more relevance in a 1 year deal for less than a million...

 

[Jame]

Yeah, that's why he signed them for five years.

Yea. Markets and stuff.

2 tank years, 2 cap rebuild years,1 year left when it matters...

I think it's pretty silly to hold those contracts up as representative of Murray

 

[boots electric]

That would really suck if its moved back a year.

This is precisely why I expect it to happen at this point .

 

[haseoke39]

Yea. Markets and stuff.

2 tank years, 2 cap rebuild years,1 year left when it matters...

I think it's pretty silly to hold those contracts up as representative of Murray

I think it's inapt to discard big deals like that and just latch onto selective trades and signings and say that's the be all and end all of what Murray wants to build. No, it's what you want Murray to build. Murray might actually be fairly represented by the totality of his work - it would mean he values roster balance and doesn't need 23 Mike Griers to execute his vision.

If another Matt Moulson comes along - soft guy, not a great skater, but great finish around the netmouth - I wouldn't be surprised if that's a Murray guy in the right situation.

If another Ennis comes along - high skilled, quick hands, creative but inconsistent with decisionmaking and no physical package to speak of - I wouldn't be surprised if that's also a Murray guy.

 

[Man of Principles]

If there has ever been a player that gets undeserved praise...

But seriously, how can anyone lose sleep over losing any of these players? They are all replaceable and upgradable.

I guess you don't see the importance of having a defensive specialist/puck hound in the forward ranks.

I see Larsson and O'Reilly as part of the reason Buffalo's defense improved and goal differential decreased from the previous year.

Larsson doesn't have to score a single goal to be valuable.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Between the cap and expansion decisions will need to be made... But I don't think anybody has really made an either/or argument regarding those two outside of that context, or the context of assets we can use to get an LD

This is exactly why I think we see Girg in so many trade proposals. Its not that nobody wants him on the team or a 'is X better than Y' scenario - he's just considered the most valuable 'non core' trade asset we have at the current time.. along with the 8OV pick which is also in most proposals for LHD.

Me personally - I would like to see both Girg & Larsson on the team for years to come. Guys like Ennis.. not so much.

 

[Beerz]

One of the things working against Ennis is the need for a certain % of cap space to be exposed. I think its 20% or 25%. At least its been speculated that will be part of the rules. Larsson right now is on a great deal for what he brings. As Jame pointed out from a cost benefit perspective Larsson would be the smarter one to protect.

Having said this, its hard to say for certain who would be protected outside of the obvious players until next season plays out. Both Murray and Disco sound as if they have a few ideas that may lead to some tweaks to how things were last year. Then there are also trades which may make this debate moot.

Good point.

 

[Jame]

I think it's inapt to discard big deals like that and just latch onto selective trades and signings and say that's the be all and end all of what Murray wants to build. No, it's what you want Murray to build. Murray might actually be fairly represented by the totality of his work - it would mean he values roster balance and doesn't need 23 Mike Griers to execute his vision.

If another Matt Moulson comes along - soft guy, not a great skater, but great finish around the netmouth - I wouldn't be surprised if that's a Murray guy in the right situation.

If another Ennis comes along - high skilled, quick hands, creative but inconsistent with decisionmaking and no physical package to speak of - I wouldn't be surprised if that's also a Murray guy.

I think you're wrong.


I think those 2 deals are far more representative of the situation/time when they were signed, than anything representative of what Murray looks for or is trying to build.

Not all contracts are representative of the big picture (Franson).

 

[Ace]

The Ennis contract isn't even a bad contract. Unless you are forced to look at only a 30 game sample size and ignore...you know...all the other games.

Moulson is the bad contract they have. And even it has value with the expansion drafts forced cap percentage on the horizon.

 

[Beerz]

Totally agree with this.

Larsson is very under rated on this forum. Ennis gets exposed before both Larsson & Foligno IMO.

If anything Larsson is extremely overrated on this board. I've never seen a player get such praise for mundane plays and touted as a 1C with a 10 goal career high.

People treat him like he's a Bergeron level Selke player.

I'd like him a lot more if people were rational about him.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I think Larsson could be the Sabres' version of Kruger, and hope he becomes that type of player.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

If anything Larsson is extremely overrated on this board. I've never seen a player get such praise for mundane plays and touted as a 1C with a 10 goal career high.

People treat him like he's a Bergeron level Selke player.

I'd like him a lot more if people were rational about him.

no one treats him that way, exactly 0 people think he's a bergeron level selke player

 

[Man of Principles]

If anything Larsson is extremely overrated on this board. I've never seen a player get such praise for mundane plays and touted as a 1C with a 10 goal career high.

People treat him like he's a Bergeron level Selke player.

I'd like him a lot more if people were rational about him.

He's our Sami Pahlsson circa early 2000's and that's exactly what I want and expect him to be.

 

[Ace]

Don't you remember all of those topics saying that Larsson is the future 1C on the team? Move over Eichel we said. Out of the way RoR we said. Trade Reinhart we said. No need. Johan Larsson is basically Bergeron we said.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

He's our Sami Pahlsson circa early 2000's and that's exactly what I want and expect him to be.

Great comparison.

He's not all the way there yet but the end of last season was promising. That line is basically a lock in most peoples roster projections for next year (and if it isn't - it should be).

Pimping him as a 1C though....

 

[Beerz]

Don't you remember all of those topics saying that Larsson is the future 1C on the team? Move over Eichel we said. Out of the way RoR we said. Trade Reinhart we said. No need. Johan Larsson is basically Bergeron we said.

On trade proposals in the past he was sold to other teams as a guy who could play 3C to 1C.

The Bergeron reference was an obvious exaggeration to point out how people talk about his defensive prowess.

 

[Wisent42]

Don't you remember all of those topics saying that Larsson is the future 1C on the team? Move over Eichel we said. Out of the way RoR we said. Trade Reinhart we said. No need. Johan Larsson is basically Bergeron we said.

Not only Bergeron. There's a lot of Peter Forsberg in him too, but slightly better. Forsbergeron!

 

[joshjull]

I think Larsson could be the Sabres' version of Kruger, and hope he becomes that type of player.

Thats a good comparison. I think Pahlsoon is another good one. But I don't think he'll get the same level of ice time or usage Pahlson did with the talent we have ahead of him at center. I'm thinking specifically of the Ducks Cup winning team.