Speculation: Roster Speculation: Part XVI (Off-Season Madness)

[Myllz]

On trade proposals in the past he was sold to other teams as a guy who could play 3C to 1C.

The Bergeron reference was an obvious exaggeration to point out how people talk about his defensive prowess.

As we all know, trade proposal threads are the place to find the most fair and unbiased representation of players.

 

[joshjull]

I want to Larsson as the 4th line center because I want Reinhart as the 3rd line center.


I've always wanted to see Reinhart at center. But watching the Pens give the Caps fits with 3 scoring lines makes me think we can have the best of both worlds. Three scoring lines like the Pens but unlike them we can also have two defensive lines with ROR and Reinhart centering them. I love Larsson and Girgs but neither can hold a candle to Reinhart offensively. The Pens 3rd line of Hagelin/Bonino/Kessel has been killing it. Imagine a 3rd line with Reinhart doing the same.

A center spine of ROR/Eichel/Reinhart with the wing talent we currently have and is on the way could be very deadly. Would be somewhat similar to the Flyers when they had Briere/Richards/Giroux and Carter as their top 3 centers.

 

[Beerz]

I want to Larsson as the 4th line center because I want Reinhart as the 3rd line center.


I've always wanted to see Reinhart at center. But watching the Pens give the Caps fits with 3 scoring lines makes me think we can have the best of both worlds. Three scoring lines but two of can also be defensive lines with ROR and Reinhart centering them. I love Larsson and Grigs but neither can hold a candle to Reinhart offensively. The Pens 3rd line of Hagelin/Bonino/Kessel has been killing it. Imagine a 3rd line with Reinhart doing the same.

I'm open to that..as long as we can get all 3 C close to 19 min of icetime

 

[joshjull]

I'm open to that..as long as we can get all 3 C close to 19 min of icetime

That shouldn't be an issue with special teams. But does it really matter if its a successful set up and we're winning?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

With that in mind...

Ennis-O'Reilly-Fasching
Girgensons-Eichel-Bailey
Kane-Reinhart-Gionta
Moulson-Larsson-Foligno
Deslauriers

...is this line-up too watered down, too dependent on prospects turning out?

 

[explore]

With that in mind...

Ennis-O'Reilly-Fasching
Girgensons-Eichel-Bailey
Kane-Reinhart-Gionta
Moulson-Larsson-Foligno
Deslauriers

...is this line-up too watered down, too dependent on prospects turning out?

Gionta has no business being penciled in with Reinhart and Kane. He belongs on the 4th line with Larsson and Foligno and Moulson should be scratched

 

[hizzoner]

With that in mind...

Ennis-O'Reilly-Fasching
Girgensons-Eichel-Bailey
Kane-Reinhart-Gionta
Moulson-Larsson-Foligno
Deslauriers

...is this line-up too watered down, too dependent on prospects turning out?

I do not see a proven winger after Kane-who is erratic-and Ennis-who has his issues too. Bailey and Fasching are unproven. Etc....We might have to keep Reinhart on the wing.....

 

[Yatzhee]

That shouldn't be an issue with special teams. But does it really matter if its a successful set up and we're winning?

Well, yes it does matter, to the players.
I don't see Reinhart liking 15 min a game and being forced to the wing on the PP because Jack and Ryan our the centers on those units.

 

[Yatzhee]

I do not see a proven winger after Kane-who is erratic-and Ennis-who has his issues too. Bailey and Fasching are unproven. Etc....We might have to keep Reinhart on the wing.....

And that is exactly what is going to happen, for a longer term then many realize

 

[Yatzhee]

With that in mind...

Ennis-O'Reilly-Fasching
Girgensons-Eichel-Bailey
Kane-Reinhart-Gionta
Moulson-Larsson-Foligno
Deslauriers

...is this line-up too watered down, too dependent on prospects turning out?

Reinhart will stay on Jack's RW I strongly suspect.
Who knows about Kane and Ryan's RW. I'm thinking Bailey, just so much drive in that kid. But maybe Fasching.
Don't see Disco breaking up the Foligno, Larrson, Gionta line.
That 4th line, I see a couple spots open.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

...is this line-up too watered down, too dependent on prospects turning out?

Both IMO - I've said this before but I don't like the idea of trying to roll four deep lines like its 2006. Thats even before you start to worry about the salary cap & using assets to fix the LHD situation.

Also Reinhart has so far been successful at wing. Why change something that works ? The only decision for me is do you play him with Jack or with ROR ? Either way - play your best players together.

The blueprint I hope they try to build around is as below:

1) All situations 'top' line (ROR)
2) Primary offensive line (Eichel)
3) Heavy defensive / shut down line (Larsson)
4) Low minutes 'character' line (Didn't mind Legwand in this role but is easily filled elsewhere)

 

[stokes84]

I guess you don't see the importance of having a defensive specialist/puck hound in the forward ranks.

I see Larsson and O'Reilly as part of the reason Buffalo's defense improved and goal differential decreased from the previous year.

Larsson doesn't have to score a single goal to be valuable.

No, I do see the importance. I just don't think he's nearly as good at it as some posters want to say he is. And, yes, he does have to score a single goal to be valuable. If you can't ever score, you can't play.

 

[joshjull]

Well, yes it does matter, to the players.
I don't see Reinhart liking 15 min a game and being forced to the wing on the PP because Jack and Ryan our the centers on those units.

What?

Eichel and ROR do not center different PP units. Eichel, ROR and Reinhart are all on the same PP unit. Eichel plays the point, Reinhart is in front of the net and ROR takes the draws. Being the "center" on the PP is about as meaningless a distinction as you can get on a PP unit. Where they play once in the zone is what matters. So with that in mind, what on earth are you talking about in regards to Reinhart and the PP? Absolutely nothing would have to change with our top PP unit if Reinhart played center.

I also have zero worries about Reinhart *****ing about his ice time. Not in his nature. About the only "complaint" I've heard from him was about playing center or wing. When asked at the end of the year which he preferred to play he basically said its the coaches decision.

Its also pretty doubtful that Reinhart would get as little as 15mins a night any way as a member of the #1 PP unit.

 

[joshjull]

Both IMO - I've said this before but I don't like the idea of trying to roll four deep lines like its 2006. Thats even before you start to worry about the salary cap & using assets to fix the LHD situation.

Also Reinhart has so far been successful at wing. Why change something that works ? The only decision for me is do you play him with Jack or with ROR ? Either way - play your best players together.

The blueprint I hope they try to build around is as below:

1) All situations 'top' line (ROR)
2) Primary offensive line (Eichel)
3) Heavy defensive / shut down line (Larsson)
4) Low minutes 'character' line (Didn't mind Legwand in this role but is easily filled elsewhere)

This needs tweaking. The heavy defensive work was done by ROR's line not the 3rd line and I expect that to continue. Our 3rd line was and is a secondary checking line.


I'm not talking about rolling 4 lines btw. I'm talking about having an offensively deadly 3rd line. Just watch the Pens/Caps and see what damage a line like that can do. They advantage we have is the personnel to make a line like that with players that are also good defensively.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

This needs tweaking. The heavy defensive work was done by ROR's line not the 3rd line and I expect that to continue. Our 3rd line was and is a secondary checking line.

We can call it whatever - but I like the idea of having a team with two of your 'top 3' centres being beasts defensively.

I'm not talking about rolling 4 lines btw. I'm talking about having an offensively deadly 3rd line. Just watch the Pens/Caps and see what damage a line like that can do. They advantage we have is the personnel to make a line like that with players that are also good defensively.

Again fair enough - but I think having Reinhart playing with Jack or ROR is more beneficial. I believe that having lines built around Eichel & ROR can bring more than enough offensively (despite the latter's defensive responsibilities) along with other lines/players chipping in.

What it comes down to honestly - I just favour defence. I've moved this way over the years & believe that in most cases it is what wins you things.

Also FTR I don't see the Pens winning the cup but can be proved wrong on that...

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I'm not talking about rolling 4 lines btw. I'm talking about having an offensively deadly 3rd line. Just watch the Pens/Caps and see what damage a line like that can do. They advantage we have is the personnel to make a line like that with players that are also good defensively.

I'm not against Reinhart at C, in fact (as you know) I was one griping about the missed opportunity to play Reinhart at C while ROR was out. So getting him there is a good idea to me, and that role (two-way checking line) is perfectly suited for him.

One problem - is there winger depth to make that line a scoring threat? With Kane the answer is yes and the various options for RW don't really change that. That's dependent on Ennis being able to play, let alone play well, to allow Kane on Reinhart's line. It's also dependent on Fasching/Bailey (maybe both) being able to contribute effectively in a top-six RW role. Those are two big maybes.

Another "problem" - without rolling four lines (which I agree with, there's not enough depth for that), that leaves the 4th line as the standard 8 min line that (these days anyway) should still be able to play and not just bang around. Is that under-utilizing Larsson, even if the PK bumps his mins to 10-12?

 

[joshjull]

We can call it whatever - but I like the idea of having a team with two of your 'top 3' centres being beasts defensively.



Again fair enough - but I think having Reinhart playing with Jack or ROR is more beneficial. I believe that having lines built around Eichel & ROR can bring more than enough offensively (despite the latter's defensive responsibilities) along with other lines/players chipping in.

What it comes down to honestly - I just favour defence. I've moved this way over the years & believe that in most cases it is what wins you things.

Also FTR I don't see the Pens winning the cup but can be proved wrong on that...

I don't think you understood the point I was making. I wasn't talking about abandoning the two defensive lines. I very clearly stated that with ROR and Reinhart as 2 of the top 3 centers , we would still have two strong defensive lines. That would give us the best of both worlds. That being 3 lines that could score while still having the two defensive lines. A better arrangement than what the Pens have which is simply three scoring lines.


Have posters forgotten the defensive chops Reinhart has and what he projects to be on that front? When combined with his offensive skill, he could do some series damage in that 3rd line center spot. Nothing Larsson or Girgs could do. I'm talking about a 3rd line that can handle its current defensive role while also being able to produce offense at a high rate. It would take a lot of pressure off the top two lines offensively.

Its about winning matchups for me.

 

[OkimLom]

I don't think you understood the point I was making. I wasn't talking about abandoning the two defensive lines. I very clearly stated that with ROR and Reinhart as 2 of the top 3 centers , we would still have two strong defensive lines. That would give us the best of both worlds. That being 3 lines that could score while still having the two defensive lines. A better arrangement than what the Pens have which is simply three scoring lines.


Have posters forgotten the defensive chops Reinhart has and what he projects to be on that front? When combined with his offensive skill, he could do some series damage in that 3rd line center spot. Nothing Larsson or Girgs could do. I'm talking about a 3rd line that can handle its current defensive role while also being able to produce offense at a high rate. It would take a lot of pressure off the top two lines offensively.

Its about winning matchups for me.

I'm in agreement that we have the centers to be able to roll 3 lines and really spread teams out and win a ton of matchups on paper. However, I'm not sure if we have the wingers to have it yet. At this time I think we have 3 wingers(since Reinhart would be at center) that could allow us to do this.

I think you have(not in any order)

xxx-ROR-xxx
Girgensons-Eichel-xxx
Kane-Reinhart-Larsson

I think there's room to upgrade our top 6 if we did this.

For me a guy like Backes fits in with ROR or Eichel pretty well.

Foligno and Deslauiers are guys who could fit with maybe the Reinhart line in case of injuries.

 

[Jame]

Its about winning matchups for me.

I don't think we need to split talent so drastically across 3 lines to win matcups

 

[Husko]

If you're concern is winning matchups, don't see why you'd want a diminished capacity for Larsson. Winning matchups is exactly what he does.

 

[Zman5778]

I'm talking about a 3rd line that can handle its current defensive role while also being able to produce offense at a high rate.

Does this even exist in reality though? When's the last time a line did such a thing?

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

Guys just make up what Tim Murray looks for in a player and ignore deals he actually signs. You know he signed Ennis to that deal, right? And Moulson for that matter, the softer of the two?

So at the end of the expansion draft, haskek39, would YOU be happy if we just lost Ennis?

 

[Zman5778]

I don't think we need to split talent so drastically across 3 lines to win matcups

Right now, I agree. But it does merit a thought in another 2-3 when hopefully guys like Fasching and Bailey (and maybe Baptiste, E-Rod and some UDFA maybe) make it viable to run 3 lines like what JJ is thinking.

 

[haseoke39]

So at the end of the expansion draft, haskek39, would YOU be happy if we just lost Ennis?

Depends on what he does next year. We can only lose one player. I think he probably comes back next year, scores his 45-50 points, and looks like a valuable part of the team going forward. I wouldn't be particularly happy about losing that.

 

[Man of Principles]

We've all been waiting for Ennis to take his game to the next level. A lot of us argued that he would have better point totals when playing with better linemates. It IS about point production with Ennis because he has no physical game to speak of and gives no thought to back checking/defensive play. He's also wildly inconsistent. Shows up every 7 or 8 games and scores a dandy goal. I want more than that in a top 6 player.

For me, if he can't put up at least 50 points this year I don't want him. If he's not scoring, he's most certainly playing an ineffective game and trying to make overly cute plays.