Roster Speculation Part XI...$teven $tamko$?? Pony up for PK?

[Doug Prishpreed]

I understand. But our future leaders are 19, 20, and 21. Don't you think if they develop like we expect we will be a better team?

I don't think we get anything for Bogosian that makes us better.

He was being discussed as part of a deal to get Subban, which would definitely make us better. Like Chain said, RD out, RD in.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

wonder if we offered a package around risto if we could clear out Moulson and Ennis' cap hit and clear room for Stamkos too

 

[Jim Bob]

I can't see Montreal moving Subban in the division unless Murray is putting the '16 1st and one of Risto or Reinhart in the deal.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

montreal isnt rebuilding with Price on the roster, Edm would offer up a potential top line center and a potential top pairing D who are both playing those roles now, I don't see a reason why theyd move Subban, even less of a reason to do it for futures when nows are being offered

Good point. Plus, the Oilers are in a different conference, making them the much more likely landing spot in this crazy scenario where Subban is traded.

 

[Sabre Dance]

He was being discussed as part of a deal to get Subban, which would definitely make us better. Like Chain said, RD out, RD in.

If we had Subban and that deal were offered we never take it without a top young player. Any deal where Bogosian is the best NHL player as a return is not getting Subban.

 

[old kummelweck]

I can't see Montreal moving Subban in the division unless Murray is putting the '16 1st and one of Risto or Reinhart in the deal.

How about PK for 2016 1st, Baily/Baptiste/Fasching and Pysyk?

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

How about PK for 2016 1st, Baily/Baptiste/Fasching and Pysyk?

that bang was the phone hanging up, we're talking about 1 of the 5 best Dmen in the league here, and quite possibly a future HoFer

Eichel and Moulson, *ducks

 

[FearTheBeard]

Look at the Pronger moves from Edmonton to Anaheim and Anaheim to Philly as precedents for established, actual Norris-level defensemen on the move.

Im not saying Jame is wrong, you guys are right as it probably would take that much to get him, I just personally wouldn't be willing to part with it. The 9M cap hit is approx. a 4M raise on Bogo's cap hit. That already makes it extremely difficult for us to add a guy like Enstrom, as well as give raises to Riso (guessing around 6), Eichel (6-7), and Reinhart (4-5) in a couple years. I think it also limits our window a little bit with our top Dmen heading into their late 20's and our prospect cupboard will be completely bare by trading 2 prospects in these deals, as well as no first round talent coming in the next 2 drafts. I think to build a consistent winner you need young guys on entry level deals consistently coming in and contributing, in order to keep a competitive team below the salary cap. With no fresh talent coming in for years (unless we depend on talent coming in the later rounds) it would be difficult for us to do that.

 

[stokes84]

that bang was the phone hanging up, we're talking about 1 of the 5 best Dmen in the league here, and quite possibly a future HoFer

Eichel and Moulson, *ducks

It's better than your other offers, but still an awful idea.

 

[Onslow]

that bang was the phone hanging up, we're talking about 1 of the 5 best Dmen in the league here, and quite possibly a future HoFer

Eichel and Moulson, *ducks

Why?

We have Risto, who might end up being a top 5 Dman in this league in his own right. There is no reason to give up a kings ransom to a divisional foe to get this guy. Subban does not fill a need.

 

[Reddawg]

How about PK for 2016 1st, Baily/Baptiste/Fasching and Pysyk?

Imagine how fast we'd hang up the phone if a similar package was offered to us for Ristolainen, then realize Subban is presently more valuable than Risto is. There's no chance that package is even close in value.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

If we had Subban and that deal were offered we never take it without a top young player. Any deal where Bogosian is the best NHL player as a return is not getting Subban.

I agree, but that's not the argument you were making. Are you just trying to argue for the sake of it? What's your point here?

 

[brian_griffin]

another off the beaten path 'young' LHD could be Klas Dahlbeck from Arizona. I went to the AZ board last week to inquire. Some really like him, think he's been their 2nd best LHD, others think he'll be a safe 5-6 going forward. Good size, good shot, solid puck moving ability, seems like theres some Tallinder to his game, although I dont think he's quite as good of a skater.

Woodhouse's Scout Tracker thread has Arizona scouts at 3 Sabres games in past couple weeks. I don't know if Arizona has a scout in the local area (would probably make sense if they did), but the two teams don't play anymore this season.

Only 10 days to the TDL...

 

[1972]

The only asset you can take off the table for Subban is Eichel.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I agree, but that's not the argument you were making. Are you just trying to argue for the sake of it? What's your point here?

My argument is why trade Bogosian? I don't think the return will upgrade the roster. It would mostly be a cap dump.

I'm just using reality. Is Montreal in rebuild mode?

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Why?

We have Risto, who might end up being a top 5 Dman in this league in his own right. There is no reason to give up a kings ransom to a divisional foe to get this guy. Subban does not fill a need.

Subban would fill a need for any team that didnt have Karlsson and Doughty in their top 4 already + moving out Moulson's cap hit

 

[1972]

I know that only including 1 of the 2 firsts might not get it done, but giving up both is an overpayment IMO. I know you're using the TM model of who cares about value go get the player you want at whatever cost, build a winner. But thats an extreme price to pay

Both those picks could be #4 overall and I would still do it, you are talking Norris level Dman just entering the prime of his career.

 

[old kummelweck]

that bang was the phone hanging up, we're talking about 1 of the 5 best Dmen in the league here, and quite possibly a future HoFer

Eichel and Moulson, *ducks

It's better than your other offers, but still an awful idea.

I don't think you hang up on a top 5 pick in the discussion, it's certainly a starting point. What we do see happening is the cupboard is bare for sweetening the pot with prospects and with the sabres projected to be getting better in the short term, even picks would have less value in a trade past 2016.

Which means the sabres likely couldn't come up with what it would take, but Edmonton likely could. Sabres probably need to shift to UFA mode.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I don't think you hang up on a top 5 pick in the discussion, it's certainly a starting point. What we do see happening is the cupboard is bare for sweetening the pot with prospects and with the sabres projected to be getting better in the short term, even picks would have less value in a trade past 2016.

Which means the sabres likely couldn't come up with what it would take, but Edmonton likely could. Sabres probably need to shift to UFA mode.

a top 5 pick is about half of what is required to get in the discussion, the other half is a probable/guaranteed top 3 forward or top 2 Dman

 

[TehDoak]

Reinhart bogo 2016 1st....and then sign stamkos. Stambban 2016

 

[Jame]

Im not saying Jame is wrong, you guys are right as it probably would take that much to get him, I just personally wouldn't be willing to part with it. The 9M cap hit is approx. a 4M raise on Bogo's cap hit. That already makes it extremely difficult for us to add a guy like Enstrom, as well as give raises to Riso (guessing around 6), Eichel (6-7), and Reinhart (4-5) in a couple years. I think it also limits our window a little bit with our top Dmen heading into their late 20's and our prospect cupboard will be completely bare by trading 2 prospects in these deals, as well as no first round talent coming in the next 2 drafts. I think to build a consistent winner you need young guys on entry level deals consistently coming in and contributing, in order to keep a competitive team below the salary cap. With no fresh talent coming in for years (unless we depend on talent coming in the later rounds) it would be difficult for us to do that.

If we added Subban and Enstrom, we'd be one of the best teams in the east next year (but Bylsma...)

Kane-ROR-Reinhart
Girgensons-Eichel-Ennis
Foligno-Larsson-Gionta

Enstrom-Subban
Pysyk-Risto

looong term your core is (and cap sustainable)
XXXX-ROR-Reinhart
Girgensons-Eichel-XXXX
XXXX-Larsson-XXXX

XXXX-Subban
XXXX-Risto

 

[Sabre Dance]

If we added Subban and Enstrom, we'd be one of the best teams in the east next year (but Bylsma...)

Kane-ROR-Reinhart
Girgensons-Eichel-Ennis
Foligno-Larsson-Gionta

Enstrom-Subban
Pysyk-Risto

looong term your core is (and cap sustainable)
XXXX-ROR-Reinhart
Girgensons-Eichel-XXXX
XXXX-Larsson-XXXX

XXXX-Subban
XXXX-Risto

I don't think think you get Subban without adding Reinhart.

 

[old kummelweck]

Title should be 'off the pipe dreams' with PK and Enstrom as our top pairing.

 

[TehDoak]

We'd probably have to give up something unpalatable to get Subban. Think Risto or Reinhart. Not worth it. We don't need another #1 dman. Just a competent lefty to pair with Risto.

The ducks didn't need pronger when they traded for him. The Blackhawks didn't need hossa when they signed him

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

My argument is why trade Bogosian? I don't think the return will upgrade the roster. It would mostly be a cap dump.

I'm just using reality. Is Montreal in rebuild mode?

You trade Bogo to upgrade RD or get a LHD. If you think Montreal wouldn't do it, that's a separate issue. Most people don't think he'd be traded him for anything, and that's probably correct. If I was their GM, I wouldn't even listen to offers. But again, that's a separate issue.

The fact is, there are rumors the GM was looking into trading him - therefore, discussing what I would trade for him shouldn't be all that crazy of a notion for you to wrap your brain around. I understand that it might be difficult for you, but you might just have to get over it.