Roster Speculation Part XI...$teven $tamko$?? Pony up for PK?

[Onslow]

and this is where posters start to change their tune on McGinn

I hope not.

 

[Husko]

and this is where posters start to change their tune on McGinn

Which ones? The because points and hits and 'he's not that bad defensively' crowd or the 'we like him but he's not a good fit longterm' crowd?

 

[Mit Yarrum]

Which ones? The because points and hits and 'he's not that bad defensively' crowd or the 'we like him but he's not a good fit longterm' crowd?

It was a joke. I'm saying that if Eichel wants McGinn, MCGINN STAYS

 

[BowieSabresFan]

and this is where you teach Eichel there's better players and you don't get to settle for mediocrity around here no more

It's all a matter of price. If the price is right, you need a couple of McGinn-like players on your team. You can't afford a roster full of nothing but high-end talent.

 

[TehDoak]

and this is where posters start to change their tune on McGinn

Nope. If Jamie likes it here come back 7/1 ala Moulson. I have no qualms with McGinn, but its simple math. You have value to other teams, we aren't making the playoffs, you aren't a core player, you are getting traded. It's the same everywhere.

 

[Onslow]

Okay...

McGinn vs Foligno.

Who do you keep and why?

 

[Chainshot]

Okay...

McGinn vs Foligno.

Who do you keep and why?

Foligno, can PK and handle checking duties with a modicum of physical play and the occasional offensive outburst.

 

[OkimLom]

I'd kinda like to know who he's targeting at the draft, too, if you could throw that in there.

Also, who he likes in UFA, and also, what he wants to pay Risto.

Thanks Okim!

What I was getting at is if there's a guy who you're going to get at least an honest answer, it would be Tim.

But hey, I'm game for tongue-in-cheek answers as well.

 

[Jim Bob]

Nope. If Jamie likes it here come back 7/1 ala Moulson. I have no qualms with McGinn, but its simple math. You have value to other teams, we aren't making the playoffs, you aren't a core player, you are getting traded. It's the same everywhere.

While this may be a bad time to compare anyone to Moulson, I agree.

 

[Husko]

Okay...

McGinn vs Foligno.

Who do you keep and why?

Foligno, AINEC. He provides that coveted 'lineup versatility' that McGinn fans claim McGinn has, only Foligno actually has it. In a pinch he can play a scoring line role (although not ideal), but he absolutely works great on a 3rd or 4th line, in a checking role, on the PK, etc. Not to mention he's younger and cheaper. I think pretty much every factor cuts for Foligno.

 

[Onslow]

Foligno, AINEC. He provides that coveted 'lineup versatility' that McGinn fans claim McGinn has, only Foligno actually has it. In a pinch he can play a scoring line role (although not ideal), but he absolutely works great on a 3rd or 4th line, in a checking role, on the PK, etc. Not to mention he's younger and cheaper. I think pretty much every factor cuts for Foligno.

Exactly.

IMO they are similar players. But Foligno is younger and better. Foligno isn't great at defending but he's better than McGinn. Thus he's better in a checking role. Both are wannabe power forwards but just don't have the offensive acumen. I like Foligno Larsson Kane as a third line going forward.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

using Buffalo for money = Buffalo gets a meeting
not using Buffalo for money = they never even get in the door

if using us for money gets a foot in the door, eventually someone is gonna like what they hear, if we never get to talk then no one will ever hear a thing

I think its hard to argue that 30-40 goal scorer is an anchor, even at 11mil a season, you'd have to move on from Kane but I'm fine with that; the entire thing for me hinges on why Stamkos' production has decreased, if the guys in the know look at the tape and decide it's something fixable, I'm not shying away from a guy who scores like that

I also think Pegula has stepped away from interfering with roster moves, rightly I'd expect that Murray would have to explain why he wasn't talking to Stamkos but we aren't going to hear any more "Tpegs daughter liked this guy in the playoffs"

Buffalo gets a meeting (or not) regardless. What I'm talking about is whether or not Pegula influences TM over who's agent gets called, and whether Pegula tries to outspend on a player that would not sign otherwise. It jacks up Buffalo's cap, and indirectly jacks up other teams' caps if they out-bid Buffalo (allowing the organization to be used). In the off scenario that a player signs in Buffalo only because of an inflated contract, that's not really doing the team any favors in the big scheme of things (cap hell). In that case I'd rather the meeting never happened.

 

[Husko]

Exactly.

IMO they are similar players. But Foligno is younger and better. Foligno isn't great at defending but he's better than McGinn. Thus he's better in a checking role. Both are wannabe power forwards but just don't have the offensive acumen. I like Foligno Larsson Kane as a third line going forward.

I don't even think they're similar. McGinn is a goal scoring winger. Foligno is more of a checker. Their only similarity really is being big.

 

[Zman5778]

Could see baptiste in the mix too?

I suppose it's possible. Reports from Rochester though have him lagging a bit behind Bailey development-wise. Not that Baptiste is stalled or anything, it's just that Bailey is a bit ahead.

But is it possible that Baptiste has a great summer and earns a spot in that hypothetical over Bailey/Carrier? Sure.

 

[Chloraflora]

Forgive me for not reading through this whole thread, I'm sure it's been brought up before.

Should Buffalo win the draft lottery, is it possible they'd look beyond Matthews or trade the first overall pick? I know the Sabres are well stocked at center and probably don't want to follow Edmonton's example.

 

[Zman5778]

Okay...

McGinn vs Foligno.

Who do you keep and why?

Foligno. Not close.

McGinn, at his core, needs skill around him to be most effective. He's not all that great defensively and as such can't play a checking-line role.

Foligno on the other hand is defensively sound, can contribute on the PK and can play on a scoring line in short bursts if needed. And when he's on his game, even if he's not scoring he can affect a game.

When neither are on their game, they're almost the same player.

 

[TehDoak]

Anyone want to compile a LHD "master list"

Of the notable teams with deep LHD:

Anaheim:

Fowler (24)
Lindholm (22) (RFA)
Theodore (20)
Despres (24)
Stoner (30)

Needs: Offense, potential cap issue(s) in the summer

Dallas:

Goligoski (30) (UFA)
Oduya (34)
Nemeth (24)
Jokipakka (24)
Oleksiak (23)
Lindell (21)

Needs: Bottom 6F

St Louis:

Bouwmeester (32)
Gunnarsson (29) (UFA)
Edmundson (22)
Dunn (19)
Lindbohm (22)

Pittsburgh:

Maata (21) (RFA)
Daley (32)
Cole (26)
Pouliot (22)
Dumolin (24)

Needs: Cap Space, Depth players

Detroit:

Kronwall (35)
Ericsson (31)
Quincey (30) (UFA)
Smith (27)
Kindl (29)
Dekeyser (27)
Ouellet (22)

Need: RHD

Feel free to add more team/players, comment, or point out missing guys.

 

[Jim Bob]

Forgive me for not reading through this whole thread, I'm sure it's been brought up before.

Should Buffalo win the draft lottery, is it possible they'd look beyond Matthews or trade the first overall pick? I know the Sabres are well stocked at center and probably don't want to follow Edmonton's example.

It's unlikely that the Sabres would be able to get the impact first pairing LHD they would need to trade away the 1st overall pick in the event that they won the lottery.

If the Sabres win the lottery, the likely move would be to draft Matthews and move either him or ROR to the wing, like they have done with Reinhart this season.

 

[TehDoak]

Okay...

McGinn vs Foligno.

Who do you keep and why?

Neither

Kane
Girgensons
Moulson
Deslauriers

All are LWers ATM. If you are talking "independent of age, cost, and contract status", I'd probably go with McGinn as he's a little more versatile and consistent.

However, given Foligno's age, RFA status, and lesser cost, I'd go with Foligno IF we were keeping one.

 

[Zip15]

and this is where posters start to change their tune on McGinn

It was a joke. I'm saying that if Eichel wants McGinn, MCGINN STAYS

For over a month, Hoppe has been campaigning for the Sabres to re-sign McGinn. While much of his Twitter feed is an echo chamber, he's faced a lot of pushback from followers - myself included - about the wisdom, or lack thereof, in re-signing McGinn. He's taken a very Harrington-esque, confrontational approach on the issue, in my opinion. Further, he's doing his level best to frame the debate as whether the team is serious about improving (re-signing McGinn) or not (to paraphrase, by "trading him for yet another 3rd round pick who probably won't make the NHL"), which is the epitome of a false dichotomy.

In addition to his false dichotomy, he's also seeking to play on certain fans' cynicism and fear. For instance, his tweet about how whether the same analytics that that said Cory Conacher and Kevin Porter were some of Buffalo's best players - a strawman, as no contextualized analytic ever said any such thing - are the same ones people are citing to say McGinn shouldn't be signed. This is an overt attempt to reach some's skepticism of advanced stats. With this Eichel story, the undertow is that the organization should want to make Eichel happy and comfortable - nay, they need to make Jack happy - and not put a sour taste in his mouth by moving someone that Eichel thinks is a good player. This, of course, is meant to sow the seed in Buffalo Sports Fan's fertile mind that Jack may grow disenchanted with the organization "and ZOMG, he may want to leave when he's a free agent!"

I've lost a bit of respect for Hoppe throughout this process. I always thought he could disagree without being disagreeable - a trait Harrington has never learned - but he's taking this issue very personally, and I can't figure out why.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Forgive me for not reading through this whole thread, I'm sure it's been brought up before.

Should Buffalo win the draft lottery, is it possible they'd look beyond Matthews or trade the first overall pick? I know the Sabres are well stocked at center and probably don't want to follow Edmonton's example.

I think you can almost guarantee TM will say he will entertain offers. If you can stay in the top 3 and pick up an additional strong asset, thats extremely enticing

 

[TehDoak]

For over a month, Hoppe has been campaigning for the Sabres to re-sign McGinn. While much of his Twitter feed is an echo chamber, he's faced a lot of pushback from followers - myself included - about the wisdom, or lack thereof, in re-signing McGinn. He's taken a very Harrington-esque, confrontational approach on the issue, in my opinion. Further, he's doing his level best to frame the debate as whether the team is serious about improving (re-signing McGinn) or not (to paraphrase, by "trading him for yet another 3rd round pick who probably won't make the NHL"), which is the epitome of a false dichotomy.

In addition to his false dichotomy, he's also seeking to play on certain fans' cynicism and fear. For instance, his tweet about how whether the same analytics that that said Cory Conacher and Kevin Porter were some of Buffalo's best players - a strawman, as no contextualized analytic ever said any such thing - are the same ones people are citing to say McGinn shouldn't be signed. This is an overt attempt to reach some's skepticism of advanced stats. With this Eichel story, the undertow is that the organization should want to make Eichel happy and comfortable - nay, they need to make Jack happy - and not put a sour taste in his mouth by moving someone that Eichel thinks is a good player. This, of course, is meant to sow the seed in Buffalo Sports Fan's fertile mind that Jack may grow disenchanted with the organization "and ZOMG, he may want to leave when he's a free agent!"

I've lost a bit of respect for Hoppe throughout this process. I always thought he could disagree without being disagreeable - a trait Harrington has never learned - but he's taking this issue very personally, and I can't figure out why.

Eh, you gotta remember that the sports writers are in the room and on the plane a ton. They get to interact with players and have a good feel for what players are popular, what players aren't. As much as they often get an ax to grind with certain players, they often feel that some players are genuinely good guys for the locker room. I also wouldn't be surprised if "Sources", aka "the players agent", feeds them info like "McGinn really likes it here, loves Buffalo, etc" and they run with it.

Also, it's a last place team with meaningless games and two weeks from the deadline. Plus when they trade McGinn, if he does well in the playoffs they can write a column about how stupid tim murray is.

 

[Zman5778]

Should Buffalo win the draft lottery, is it possible they'd look beyond Matthews or trade the first overall pick?

It'd be Matthews or trade IMO.

And I think TM would be very interesting in trading out of #1....but ONLY if there's a high-quality, young LHD coming back. Otherwise, we take Matthews.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

If this Subban rift is real, we can only hope to be a potential third team facilitating salary, right?

Because he's an "everybody but Eichel, O'Reilly and Risto" type of player.

 

[Jim Bob]

I think you can almost guarantee TM will say he will entertain offers. If you can stay in the top 3 and pick up an additional strong asset, thats extremely enticing

2003 was the last time you saw a trade like that. The funny thing is that Florida traded back from 1 to 3 in 2003 and 2002.

It's highly unlikely that Murray makes a deal like that if the Sabres win the lottery.