Speculation: Roster Speculation, 2018 Off-Season

[1972]

no he wasn't

oh ok, he was good.

 

[1972]

He. Hired. Phil. Housley.

You think Terry Pegula didn't have anything to do with that? And lets wait and see when Housley actually has defenders who can make a pass on his blueline.

 

[1972]

It is his fault for thinking Josefson and Pouliot and Nolan could be anything more than hot garbage though...I really hope he's able to get some MUCH better filler for the roster this time around.

Plenty of people on this board liked the first two signings.

 

[Reddawg]

He. Hired. Phil. Housley.

Housley's system is going to play a hell of a lot better with Dahlin on the team this year. You can't play a mobile active defenseman system without mobile active defensemen.

 

[TehDoak]

People harp on TM still because his moves are what stripped team's bottom 6 now. 2 1st 3 2nds along with some secondary players would go miles to making this a productive team.

This year is the year when other teams 1st and 2nds/3rds from 2015 are starting to contribute in the NHL. Buffalo was positioned to have those assets contributing. Now? Nothing, Kane was traded for futures and Bogo is toast.

Botterill was given a team with some very high end talent; almost nothing in the way of prospects, a completely stripped bottom 6 and no extra draft ammunition.

Eh. 2014 was an objectively bad draft for TMGM. Swung and missed on 3 seconds. Of the 8 picks after Reinhart, only two might make a NHL contribution, Johanssen and Oloffson. 2015 actually wasn't too bad. If you ignore the traded picks (2x 1sts, 31st OA)

2015 yielded Guhle and Borgen, both of whom could crack a NHL lineup.

In 2016 Asplund could easily be a gem at 33.

I think you could easily blame the blue line issues on Murray. McNabb, Myers and Pysyk were essentially given away for pennies on the dollar with Bogosian the only real tangible asset left after those trades.

As the forwards go....we've drafted piss poor going back to well before Murray started

Going back 10 years, here are our drafted forwards in the 1st 3 rounds:

Regier Drafts:
2008: Ennis, Adam
2009: Kassian, Foligno
2010: Sundher
2011: Armia, Catanacci
2012: Grigerenko, Girgensons, Kea
2013: Compher, Hurley, Bailey, Baptiste

Murray Drafts
2014: Reinhart, Lemieux, Cornel, Karabeck
2015: Eichel
2016: Nylander, Asplund, Pu

Botterill draft:

2017: Mittelstadt, Davidson
2018: (no F taken in 3 rounds)

Those Regier drafts were just f***ing brutal in terms of forwards. Of that group, there are 0 top 6 forwards. Bailey and Baptiste MIGHT crack a NHL top 6 eventually. Ennis, I suppose, you could excuse because of the injuries. But still, woof. Murray had a few tap ins (Reinhart and Eichel).

 

[Reddawg]

Plenty of people on this board liked the first two signings.

Lord only knows why. I suppose Josefson did double his goals total from the year before, so that's something.

Just seems like he took all the first round picks that were available in free agency, chucked a couple darts at them and said "okay, Josefson and Pouliot..."

I guess that means we can probably expect to hear about a Yak signing pretty soon. So sayeth the darts.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Reinhart scores 11 points in the first 37 games and you want to say he played good?

He doesn't even PK on the 31st place team. If he isn't scoring he isn't helping.

 

[1972]

Same people who ripped on Bylsma's system are now ripping on Housley for not playing something similar to Bylsma, man you guys. Bylsma realised he has no talent on the back end, so he made it as easy as possible on them, this board ripped him every chance.

 

[explore]

Housley's system is going to play a hell of a lot better with Dahlin on the team this year. You can't play a mobile active defenseman system without mobile active defensemen.

Competent coaches get the most out of players they have by game planning and adapting. “System” coaches are one trick ponies who are the equivalent of a toddler trying to force a square peg into a round hole. See Gallant vs Housely/Bylsma.

 

[Reddawg]

Same people who ripped on Bylsma's system are now ripping on Housley for not playing something similar to Bylsma, man you guys.

I like Housley's system in theory, I just want to see it played with competent hockey players this year. I've suffered through enough Sabres hockey where we're the slowest team in the league and not at all fun to watch. Feels like it's been that way ever since Brian Campbell was traded.

 

[1972]

Competent coaches get the most out of players they have by game planning and adapting. “System” coaches are one trick ponies who are the equivalent of a toddler trying to force a square peg into a round hole. See Gallant vs Housely/Bylsma.

Competent coaches have good players. No coach is going to be good when his D consists of the players we have had the last 4 years. You guys make it sound like coaching is rocket science and each team plays a dramatically different system, having enough talent and players buying in is how you win hockey games.

Gerard Gallant isn't some revolutionary coach, he's not a huge X and O's guy. He put a simple system in place, and his players bought in. That's more on the players then the coach.

 

[OkimLom]

People harp on TM still because his moves are what stripped team's bottom 6 now. 2 1st 3 2nds along with some secondary players would go miles to making this a productive team.

This year is the year when other teams 1st and 2nds/3rds from 2015 are starting to contribute in the NHL. Buffalo was positioned to have those assets contributing. Now? Nothing, Kane was traded for futures and Bogo is toast.

Botterill was given a team with some very high end talent; almost nothing in the way of prospects, a completely stripped bottom 6 and no extra draft ammunition.

So, Murray's guys from 2014 should be in the league...because 3 other guys have played over 100 games...

2015 he left the team depleted of defenseman depth. Defenseman take longer to develop, so that 6th round pick, the only forward outside Jack, should surely be ready by now, right?

We had a crap bottom 6 built from a dry well of the pipeline thanks to Darcy's inability to draft quality forwards the years before.

 

[Baccus]

Same people who ripped on Bylsma's system are now ripping on Housley for not playing something similar to Bylsma, man you guys. Bylsma realised he has no talent on the back end, so he made it as easy as possible on them, this board ripped him every chance.

Who's asked for Bylsma's system back?

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Same people who ripped on Bylsma's system are now ripping on Housley for not playing something similar to Bylsma, man you guys. Bylsma realised he has no talent on the back end, so he made it as easy as possible on them, this board ripped him every chance.

Bylsma coached the right transition system with little adjustment, and poor Dzone coverage and player usage.

Phil Housley coached the wrong transition system while also being worse at virtually everything other aspect of coaching except for Eichel’s OZS and the PK.

 

[Aladyyn]

Reinhart scores 11 points in the first 37 games and you want to say he played good?

He doesn't even PK on the 31st place team. If he isn't scoring he isn't helping.

Try again.

 

[ZZamboni]

Try again.

You mean failed again

 

[TheMistyStranger]

I still like when this thread is about roster speculation

 

[Dreakon13]

Lord only knows why. I suppose Josefson did double his goals total from the year before, so that's something.

Because I think most people recognized that a kickass turnaround offseason probably wasn't going to happen between Botts being new to the job, only getting half an offseason, the expansion draft, and a limited FA market. We were just happy the signings were safe, short term and who knows... maybe one of these guys would surprise us and gel with the team.

All of this of course, is ancient history now that those signings didn't work out, and several members of the board have officially decided to hate Botts.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I still like when this thread is about roster speculation

It’s been a general strategy thread for as long as I’ve posted here, but keep being pedantic.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Because I think most people recognized that a kickass turnaround offseason probably wasn't going to happen between Botts being new to the job, only getting half an offseason, the expansion draft, and a limited FA market.

And despite those constraints, Botterill did not take a “leave no stone unturned” approach to adding talent.

 

[Reddawg]

All of this of course, is ancient history now that several members of the board have officially decided to hate Botts.

I'm not a member of that club. He's thirteen months into the job...and this is a huge offseason. I have confidence he'll rise to it, even if it's just to do the best he can. There's nothing you can do if you make the best offer to a player and he accepts less to play for "not you".

There isn't a long list of FA's dying to play in Buffalo these days. I think we'll come out of free agency with one of the big wingers (Neal, JVR, maybe Perron), we'll acquire a goalie who can split time with Ullmark, and fill a couple other holes around the roster. I'm not asking for much, but we can do better than last year's signings. A lot better.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

It’s been a general strategy thread for as long as I’ve posted here, but keep being pedantic.

Oh, right. Discussing Darcy Regier's and Tim Murray's draft selection history certainly relates to general strategy.

 

[sabrebuild]

People harp on TM still because his moves are what stripped team's bottom 6 now. 2 1st 3 2nds along with some secondary players would go miles to making this a productive team.

This year is the year when other teams 1st and 2nds/3rds from 2015 are starting to contribute in the NHL. Buffalo was positioned to have those assets contributing. Now? Nothing, Kane was traded for futures and Bogo is toast.

Botterill was given a team with some very high end talent; almost nothing in the way of prospects, a completely stripped bottom 6 and no extra draft ammunition.

That’s not precisely true. The bottom 6 that Murray left Botts was low on high end young talent, but it wasn’t trash like it was this year.

I have made fun of stokes for his silly Ennis takes for years, but Tyler Ennis as a third line winger is a huge difference compared to Jordan Nolan, Griffith, Bailey/Baptiste as of now.

Marcus Foligno never became Todd Bertuzzi or whoever people thought he would be after his first call up. But he is a damn good bottom 6 guy with some snarl and skill.

Now I don’t regret going and getting Scandella. But to say that bottom 6 was trash because of Murray is incorrect. That bottom 6 was trash because Botts couldn’t or didn’t replace those exchanged players.

Before Botts, the top 6 needed 1 more quality player and continued development from Eichel and Reinhart

Kane Eichel Reinhart
Xxx RoR Okposo

The 4th line had some young talent pushing, but it needed improvement.

Girgs Grant Dlo

Now grant dlo sucked, but you had young guys like Erod and Carrier pushing for spots.

And I just realized that Gionta wasn’t replaced either.

So your bottom 6 was something like

Foligno Larson Gionta
Ennis/Girgs/Carrier/Erod/Grant/dlo/prospects

Your bottom 6 this year was

Pouliot Larson Pominville
Nolan Josefson Griffith/Wilson/Erod/prospects

Now part of that is injuries, perhaps a healthy josefson and Erod make that bottom 6 stay below average.

But we took a chance on bargain pieces in the fwd group in order to improve the defense. Those were all Botts choices, for good or bad.

 

[joshjull]

 

[SabresFan26]

Same people who ripped on Bylsma's system are now ripping on Housley for not playing something similar to Bylsma, man you guys. Bylsma realised he has no talent on the back end, so he made it as easy as possible on them, this board ripped him every chance.

Truth. I give credit to Bylsma for trying to make the best of an awful situation that Murray gave him. His system minimized sucking as much as possible by playing defensive passive hockey. Try to win 1-0, 2-1 etc. or at least not get blown out.

People preach change and Housley comes in, inherits most of Murray's garbage and Botts is starting now to reshape this roster to play his style but because we do worse everyone jumps of the wagon because they have no patience. Players could barely pass on this team and Housley gets back to fundamentals, you know the development aspect that was neglected for so long. With players in our system, Housley gaining more experience, I'm sure he's learning and get better.

It's funny though, common theme here, certain posters are always right, and their the same ones who hated every single management/coaching tandem we've had

First it was Regier and Ruff - (Man they look good right about now especially with those speedy deep mid 2000s teams)
Murray and Bylsma - (Awful few years where the team was set back in nearly every basic capacity, and made a mockery in the league)
Housley and Botterill - (Inherited garbage, have begun to turn it around with this off season being a big opportunity to really put a stamp on the organizations future, but still get hated on because it isn't an overnight process)