Speculation: Roster Speculation, 2018 Off-Season

[Jim Bob]

The article is almost entirely speculation that the reporter himself admits he can't confirm but follows that with ....... "but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen".

Its a Habs beat reporter for Sportsnet writing a fluff piece on how Bergevin almost had the best weekend ever. Where he solves all their center problems in one fell swoop with their 3rd pick and then getting ROR without paying the piece thats being asked. If only a bunch of things that didn't happen had actually happened it would have been great. Things there is little evidence to support were even in play let alone going to happen.

I've yet to see anything to dispute the idea we're asking for whats been consistently reported for some time by Bobby Mac. A good young player, a top prospect and a pick, he Mike Richards return if you will.

All the reports of 3OV or bust seem to fly in the face of the Richards package type ask.

 

[hizzoner]

If we could have gotten Wahlstrom, Wilde and another mid 2nd round for ROR, in hindsight I do the deal.

I think the fact that we would also have $7.5 M more a year in cap space for 5 years to go after someone we wanted cannot be dismissed out of hand.

 

[Chainshot]

All the reports of 3OV or bust seem to fly in the face of the Richards package type ask.

3OV would be a Schenn type player though. So if that was the ask, that's likely why.

 

[joshjull]

All the reports of 3OV or bust seem to fly in the face of the Richards package type ask.

Chain explained it in his post.

The part I added to my post after you quoted it.

I don't have faith or lack of faith in Botts. I honestly have no idea what to expect from him in a big trade since we have no history to work from. But the knee jerk panic over every report is something to behold.

 

[Jim Bob]

3OV would be a Schenn type player though. So if that was the ask, that's likely why.

That would still be two pieces short of the Richards type package.

 

[joshjull]

That would still be two pieces short of the Richards type package.

You thought it was straight up? Most folks like Bobby, Mac and Lebrun said it had to be part of the deal.

 

[Jim Bob]

You thought it was straight up? Most folks like Bobby, Mac and Lebrun said it had to be part of the deal.

I went back and look at Twitter and didn't see anything of the sort from Bobby Mac.

All the reports I saw around the draft were that Botterill was holding fast to his asking price of the 3rd overall pick.

 

[Sabreality]

my god this board is a trainwreck

we got Dahlin?

its only 6/26

 

[joshjull]

I went back and look at Twitter and didn't see anything of the sort from Bobby Mac.

All the reports I saw around the draft were that Botterill was holding fast to his asking price of the 3rd overall pick.

I was talking about the draft broadcast not twitter but either way why are you assuming it would just be for that? And if you assume its just for that why on earth do you believe the report that he would then settle for 11th or 12th? even with 2nd rounders.

You seem hell bent to complain about the GM based on that report from the Habs beat writer. So I'm done trying to debate.

At the end of the day if ROR gets trade we will find out if the ask fits what we've been hearing. Until then I guess its back to knee jerk panic over unsubstantiated rumors.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

I have no faith in Botterill being anything more than a GM capable of running a pro organization with some competence, there are 50 others who could do the same. I hope he's better than that but so far there is no reason to believe he's more than that.

He's inherited so much, two young franchise players a 1C and 1D, the 1D he got by his own incompetence but Murray gave him a head start with that. We have one of the leagues premier two way centers in ROR and a nice collection of high end to very good prospects. He'll have to really blow it badly, i.e. another bottom 3 finish to lose his job. The accumulated young talent is too good not to improve in the standings and he'll get the credit for it by the Pegulas who are simpletons. Unless this season is a disaster again I think we're stuck with Botterill for better or worse for quite some time.

 

[darcyRegier]

I hear something along the lines of: "We want players here who want to be here" a lot from Botteril. Sounds a lot like the gm and coach of the Bills, and they look to be building a great culture over there. Botts is putting more value in character/leadership in his draft picks. I really think he can build something great, just be patient.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I hear something along the lines of: "We want players here who want to be here" a lot from Botteril. Sounds a lot like the gm and coach of the Bills, and they look to be building a great culture over there. Botts is putting more value in character/leadership in his draft picks. I really think he can build something great, just be patient.

No patience left here, we must be able to compete next season at least to make the playoffs. No ifs, no buts in my book.

 

[sabremike]

I have no faith in Botterill being anything more than a GM capable of running a pro organization with some competence, there are 50 others who could do the same. I hope he's better than that but so far there is no reason to believe he's more than that.

He's inherited so much, two young franchise players a 1C and 1D, the 1D he got by his own incompetence but Murray gave him a head start with that. We have one of the leagues premier two way centers in ROR and a nice collection of high end to very good prospects. He'll have to really blow it badly, i.e. another bottom 3 finish to lose his job. The accumulated young talent is too good not to improve in the standings and he'll get the credit for it by the Pegulas who are simpletons. Unless this season is a disaster again I think we're stuck with Botterill for better or worse for quite some time.

There's one problem with believing improvement is automatic, and it's behind our bench. Housley still being here when it's clear he has no business being an NHL coach worries me greatly. The biggest proof he is terrible is the embarrassing home record, as that indicates he is completely lost when it comes to doing line matchups and that's the big advantage home teams have.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

I hear something along the lines of: "We want players here who want to be here" a lot from Botteril. Sounds a lot like the gm and coach of the Bills, and they look to be building a great culture over there. Botts is putting more value in character/leadership in his draft picks. I really think he can build something great, just be patient.

and McDermott ended a 17 year playoff drought in his first year, the Bills most likely take a big step backwards this season but McDermott bought himself some time.

Botterill in his first year managed to almost equal the worst season in Sabres history with the key difference in 2014 that was our goal from the beginning. I don't know how much time he has, I hope not much. Pegula sent a very sincere frustrated letter to seasons ticket holders after the past season saying he feels the pain along with us fans. If Botterill and Sexton think they have been given lots of time to rebuild they're going to be sadly mistaken. Botterill sends out mixed messages, he frequently says you want to make the playoffs every year and cites the Colorado and NJ examples of quick turnarounds but then other times you get the be patient it's a process spiel and if the rumor is true he was prepared to trade ROR for futures that's some evidence he thinks he has time on his hands.

 

[Yultron]

and McDermott ended a 17 year playoff drought in his first year, the Bills most likely take a big step backwards this season but McDermott bought himself some time.

Botterill in his first year managed to almost equal the worst season in Sabres history with the key difference in 2014 that was our goal from the beginning. I don't know how much time he has, I hope not much. Pegula sent a very sincere frustrated letter to seasons ticket holders after the past season saying he feels the pain along with us fans. If Botterill and Sexton think they have been given lots of time to rebuild they're going to be sadly mistaken. Botterill sends out mixed messages, he frequently says you want to make the playoffs every year and cites the Colorado and NJ examples of quick turnarounds but then other times you get the be patient it's a process spiel and if the rumor is true he was prepared to trade ROR for futures that's some evidence he thinks he has time on his hands.

Let’s give Botterill at least 3 Year’s before we call him a failure. The guy was the best GM on the open market last year. The guy as an Assistant and Associate GM won 3 Stanley Cups before age 42. As a player he’s won the Calder Cup, NCAA Title and is the only Canadian world junior player ever too win 3 gold medals. To have this much scrutiny and lack of trust in Botterill is silly.

The guy had to clean up Murray’s mess and still is and in year one of his tenure he completed what he promised he would do and that was to make the Amerks competitive and create a winning environment. Yes they got swept but they still made the playoffs for the first time in a very long time that means something. Yes Housley had a terrible season but how did Jared Bednar do in Colorado his first season ? 48 points to be exact and in year two they made the playoffs? Even if we had Barry Trotz or Mike Babcock last year we wouldn’t of made the playoffs with the roster we had. We might of had a few more points in the standings but when you implement an entire organizational shift in vision and philosophy that stuff doesn’t happen overnight it takes time. Last year was bad I get that but what about the positives??? Housley helped Reinhart finally realize and fulfill his potential with the second half he had, Casey Nelson had a spectacular season, Scandella had his best season in 4 years etc. What about Botterill? Acquired Scandella for injury prone Tyler Ennis Foligno and a 3rd while also getting a 4th back plus Pommer, got a 1st Round Pick for Evander Kane , drafting World Junior MVP Casey Middlestadt looks genius and Davidsson looks outstanding, signed Jack Eichel to a reasonable and fair contract , rebuild the Amerks in one season, and he won the draft lottery and got us Rasmus Dahlin .

Botterill deserves to see his vision through and he will. Kim and Terry aren’t going to fire another GM and have more so called dead money out of the organization after two seasons. Housley I could see getting fired if we have another bad season but let’s not forget last season everyone was begging for Housley over Rick Tocchet and we got our wish so Hoysley deserves another season and if he fails miserably again than you can fire him but last season he was by far the best coach available.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Let’s give Botterill at least 3 Year’s before we call him a failure. The guy was the best GM on the open market last year. The guy as an Assistant and Associate GM won 3 Stanley Cups before age 42. As a player he’s won the Calder Cup, NCAA Title and is the only Canadian world junior player ever too win 3 gold medals. To have this much scrutiny and lack of trust in Botterill is silly.

The guy had to clean up Murray’s mess and still is and in year one of his tenure he completed what he promised he would do and that was to make the Amerks competitive and create a winning environment. Yes they got swept but they still made the playoffs for the first time in a very long time that means something. Yes Housley had a terrible season but how did Jared Bednar do in Colorado his first season ? 48 points to be exact and in year two they made the playoffs? Even if we had Barry Trotz or Mike Babcock last year we wouldn’t of made the playoffs with the roster we had. We might of had a few more points in the standings but when you implement an entire organizational shift in vision and philosophy that stuff doesn’t happen overnight it takes time. Last year was bad I get that but what about the positives??? Housley helped Reinhart finally realize and fulfill his potential with the second half he had, Casey Nelson had a spectacular season, Scandella had his best season in 4 years etc. What about Botterill? Acquired Scandella for injury prone Tyler Ennis Foligno and a 3rd while also getting a 4th back plus Pommer, got a 1st Round Pick for Evander Kane , drafting World Junior MVP Casey Middlestadt looks genius and Davidsson looks outstanding, signed Jack Eichel to a reasonable and fair contract , rebuild the Amerks in one season, and he won the draft lottery and got us Rasmus Dahlin .

Botterill deserves to see his vision through and he will. Kim and Terry aren’t going to fire another GM and have more so called dead money out of the organization after two seasons. Housley I could see getting fired if we have another bad season but let’s not forget last season everyone was begging for Housley over Rick Tocchet and we got our wish so Hoysley deserves another season and if he fails miserably again than you can fire him but last season he was by far the best coach available.

Listing his credentials then giving him a time limit, then mentioning Housley deserves another year after Botts hired him is a contradiction. If Botts hired a coach who is a failure then that failure is on Botts and until now Botts has done nothing.

I think Botts gets three years here because this franchise needs stability but Botts has done nothing to show he knows how to build a winner.

 

[Yultron]

Listing his credentials then giving him a time limit, then mentioning Housley deserves another year after Botts hired him is a contradiction. If Botts hired a coach who is a failure then that failure is on Botts and until now Botts has done nothing.

I think Botts gets three years here because this franchise needs stability but Botts has done nothing to show he knows how to build a winner.

How has Botts done nothing after one season ? I just mentioned and provided a list of things he did if you reread my post once again and towards the end of my post you will see a list of accomplishments he has done . Yes I will tell you what he has done hasn’t led to success yet but time will tell and he deserves 3 years like you mentioned.

In regards to Housley being a failure and that Faliure is on Botts really ? Is Jared Bednar a faliure in Colorado ? After his disastrous first season in Colorado how did he do in year two ?? Exactly going from 48 points to the playoffs ! Housley isn’t a faliure after one season . If he is disastrous in year two than feel free to fire him. But as Bednar showed you in Colorado one bad season doesn’t define you as a faliure

 

[Jim Bob]

I was talking about the draft broadcast not twitter but either way why are you assuming it would just be for that? And if you assume its just for that why on earth do you believe the report that he would then settle for 11th or 12th? even with 2nd rounders.

You seem hell bent to complain about the GM based on that report from the Habs beat writer. So I'm done trying to debate.

At the end of the day if ROR gets trade we will find out if the ask fits what we've been hearing. Until then I guess its back to knee jerk panic over unsubstantiated rumors.

Sorry, but that seemed to be the most info about a potential O'Reilly deal and it seems like the return was less than stellar.

Hopefully it was the case that it was nothing close to what Botterill would accept.

But, the Friedman report on Buffalo being really high on Tkachuk and Botterill's making that 3OV pick the make or break doesn't make it a huge leap that Botterill was so high on Tkachuk that he might overpay to get him.

I agree that we will all be able to judge the return if a deal happens.

Or, we can all speculate as to why he doesn't move. Won't that be fun.

 

[Jim Bob]

Listing his credentials then giving him a time limit, then mentioning Housley deserves another year after Botts hired him is a contradiction. If Botts hired a coach who is a failure then that failure is on Botts and until now Botts has done nothing.

I think Botts gets three years here because this franchise needs stability but Botts has done nothing to show he knows how to build a winner.

I thought it was Murray's fault that Botterill hired Housley?

 

[TehDoak]

I get the botterill frustration....Are we really upset about a rumored trade that didn’t happen coming from a source in the other teams backyard?

Lets wait until middle of July to let the off-season criticism roll in. You know...for moves he actually made.

 

[Dreakon13]

I get the botterill frustration....Are we really upset about a rumored trade that didn’t happen coming from a source in the other teams backyard?

Lets wait until middle of July to let the off-season criticism roll in. You know...for moves he actually made.

The off-season criticism started probably 6 months ago.

All of this has just gone completely off the rails IMO. Maybe this is just a side effect of being a losing franchise for so long... but so many people here truly believe they know the path to fixing all this. And ANY deviation from the fans carefully and meticulously laid out plans on Botts part... and that includes stuff that actually happens, as well as rumored moves they disagree with or moves that other teams make that Botts should've done... falls into the 'incompetence' category. Regardless of context, realism of said moves, acknowledging bias, or any of those fun things.

Almost to the point where I'm not entirely sure people using it, know what the word means anymore. It's just become a buzzword for when you're mad and disagree about something. Frankly, as a fanbase, I think we've used up our lifetime quota of the word 'incompetence' undeservedly in the last few months alone.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Let’s give Botterill at least 3 Year’s before we call him a failure. The guy was the best GM on the open market last year. The guy as an Assistant and Associate GM won 3 Stanley Cups before age 42. As a player he’s won the Calder Cup, NCAA Title and is the only Canadian world junior player ever too win 3 gold medals. To have this much scrutiny and lack of trust in Botterill is silly.

The guy had to clean up Murray’s mess and still is and in year one of his tenure he completed what he promised he would do and that was to make the Amerks competitive and create a winning environment. Yes they got swept but they still made the playoffs for the first time in a very long time that means something. Yes Housley had a terrible season but how did Jared Bednar do in Colorado his first season ? 48 points to be exact and in year two they made the playoffs? Even if we had Barry Trotz or Mike Babcock last year we wouldn’t of made the playoffs with the roster we had. We might of had a few more points in the standings but when you implement an entire organizational shift in vision and philosophy that stuff doesn’t happen overnight it takes time. Last year was bad I get that but what about the positives??? Housley helped Reinhart finally realize and fulfill his potential with the second half he had, Casey Nelson had a spectacular season, Scandella had his best season in 4 years etc. What about Botterill? Acquired Scandella for injury prone Tyler Ennis Foligno and a 3rd while also getting a 4th back plus Pommer, got a 1st Round Pick for Evander Kane , drafting World Junior MVP Casey Middlestadt looks genius and Davidsson looks outstanding, signed Jack Eichel to a reasonable and fair contract , rebuild the Amerks in one season, and he won the draft lottery and got us Rasmus Dahlin .

Botterill deserves to see his vision through and he will. Kim and Terry aren’t going to fire another GM and have more so called dead money out of the organization after two seasons. Housley I could see getting fired if we have another bad season but let’s not forget last season everyone was begging for Housley over Rick Tocchet and we got our wish so Hoysley deserves another season and if he fails miserably again than you can fire him but last season he was by far the best coach available.

will let Jame handle this

 

[OkimLom]

I think the fact that we would also have $7.5 M more a year in cap space for 5 years to go after someone we wanted cannot be dismissed out of hand.

Right!? I mean we can use that money on a 2nd line center until Mitts is ready for more important minutes, or we can use it on a 60+ point winger. The options of using that 7.5 for 5 years are endless

 

[OkimLom]

I was talking about the draft broadcast not twitter but either way why are you assuming it would just be for that? And if you assume its just for that why on earth do you believe the report that he would then settle for 11th or 12th? even with 2nd rounders.

You seem hell bent to complain about the GM based on that report from the Habs beat writer. So I'm done trying to debate.

At the end of the day if ROR gets trade we will find out if the ask fits what we've been hearing. Until then I guess its back to knee jerk panic over unsubstantiated rumors.

Gotcha, don’t talk about anything until it happens. Don’t have opinion on anything speculative.

 

[Yatzhee]

Given that Toronto may end up with Tavares, I believe its going to be a very active post July 1st for the Sabres.