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Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

The Real JT

The Real JT

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. :(
Jul 2, 2018
8,134
7,735
Connecticut
doublechili said:
Your random mention of Jesus at the end of a post criticizing nepotism:

A. doesn't help your case; and
B. is possibly the funniest unintentional joke I've ever seen on the internets. :laugh:

And FWIW, I've seen a ton of evidence of people who benefitted greatly by going into the same career as their parent. Like, some kid who grew up sitting at the dinner table hearing their parent the lawyer talk about work every day for years and years is, if they decide to become a lawyer, at a big advantage over a kid who did not have that experience growing up. Kinda makes sense, no?
Click to expand...
I 90% disagree with your last point. ☮️
 
doublechili

doublechili

For all intensive purposes, your nuts
Apr 11, 2006
18,909
15,341
Okay. Just to be clear, I'm not even talking about "nepotism", which I guess is the idea that someone gets an unfair advantage solely because of their family relationship to someone else. Some people choose to (cynically) assume that's always the case. I'm actually talking about the idea that it's at least potentially an advantage to grow up learning about a career field. I'm not saying it's a definitive thing, ie., if your parent is in a field you will be good/great at that field. But, all other things being equal (ie., you're not a screw-up by nature), it seems like it would be an advantage to grow up immersed in a field. Now this assumes that the parent is around and that they share their experiences, which of course may not always be the case. But, if that is the case, it's almost like growing up in a mentorship situation. Seems like it would be helpful. Unfortunately, I don't have personal experience with this! But I've seen people who have benefitted from it.
 
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thedonger

thedonger

Registered User
Mar 4, 2007
1,418
222
CupHolders said:
Like most arguments on here… this doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Do franchises and players benefit from income tax arrangements. Yes, yes they absolutely do.

Is that a death knell to building a quality team, in a tax disadvantaged state? No, not necessarily.

Ultimately, most players want the same things and then there is a margin of individual preference and acceptance based on personal values.
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Any truth to the income advantage only applying it half the season (ie home games) or is that a myth?
 
Throttle

Throttle

Registered User
Sep 22, 2020
5,778
4,342
thedonger said:
Any truth to the income advantage only applying it half the season (ie home games) or is that a myth?
Click to expand...
It’s only 50, maybe 55%. All away games are taxed where the game is played. So, being in FL helps, but the player is taxed for games in NY, NJ, Montreal, etc.

The bigger benefit in most of those tax advantaged states is the overall cost of living is lower. $3.5M house in TB vs. a $3.5M in LA (Manhattan Beach where the players live) is VERY different.
 
thedonger

thedonger

Registered User
Mar 4, 2007
1,418
222
Throttle said:
It’s only 50, maybe 55%. All away games are taxed where the game is played. So, being in FL helps, but the player is taxed for games in NY, NJ, Montreal, etc.

The bigger benefit in most of those tax advantaged states is the overall cost of living is lower. $3.5M house in TB vs. a $3.5M in LA (Manhattan Beach where the players live) is VERY different.
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Yeah, cost of living, albeit a strong factor I’m sure, is a different animal though. Thanks for the clarification on the tax thing.
 
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SI

SI

Registered User
Feb 16, 2013
7,863
4,073
Throttle said:
It’s only 50, maybe 55%. All away games are taxed where the game is played. So, being in FL helps, but the player is taxed for games in NY, NJ, Montreal, etc.

The bigger benefit in most of those tax advantaged states is the overall cost of living is lower. $3.5M house in TB vs. a $3.5M in LA (Manhattan Beach where the players live) is VERY different.
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You do realize players are not paid by games played?

They are paid bi weekly - 13 paychecks over the 186 day cycle. So, your math does not work out.

It depends on also where players have established primary residents. There is also other things that complicate things like retirement, canadian to US, and european players.

There is a clear benefit to not paying state income tax. Sam Reinhart would lose over 1m in taxes if he signed the same deal somewhere else.
 
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Chardo

Registered User
Apr 27, 2007
11,489
7,797
SI said:
You do realize players are not paid by games played?

They are paid bi weekly - 13 paychecks over the 186 day cycle. So, your math does not work out.

It depends on also where players have established primary residents. There is also other things that complicate things like retirement, canadian to US, and european players.

There is a clear benefit to not paying state income tax. Sam Reinhart would lose over 1m in taxes if he signed the same deal somewhere else.
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How they are paid and how they are taxed are two different things.
 
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Richie Daggers Crime

Richie Daggers Crime

Boosted 9 times double masked they/them
Mar 8, 2004
17,488
6,760
Atlanta
JJ18Sniper said:
With no cap and higher revenues, they usually can outbid another team in a more favorable tax position. The luxury tax is only prohibitive to certain owners who don't like it on principle (e.g. Hal).
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The big market teams are willing to spend more on one player than other teams spend on their entire roster.
 
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Throttle

Throttle

Registered User
Sep 22, 2020
5,778
4,342
SI said:
You do realize players are not paid by games played?

They are paid bi weekly - 13 paychecks over the 186 day cycle. So, your math does not work out.

It depends on also where players have established primary residents. There is also other things that complicate things like retirement, canadian to US, and european players.

There is a clear benefit to not paying state income tax. Sam Reinhart would lose over 1m in taxes if he signed the same deal somewhere else.
Click to expand...
You do realize that pay vs tax are two entirely different things?

If a FL player with a primary residence in FL plays a California west coast trip across one week or two weeks, that player is paying a HIGHER tax rate for those games.

It’s also very difficult to game the residency for tax benefits, especially when your occupation is public, same with when and where you travel to.

Are players in some tax advantaged states making more money? Yes, but it’s not some not new found gold mine.
 
Glory Days

Glory Days

Registered User
Aug 16, 2012
1,842
1,184
Charlotte
Throttle said:
You do realize that pay vs tax are two entirely different things?

If a FL player with a primary residence in FL plays a California west coast trip across one week or two weeks, that player is paying a HIGHER tax rate for those games.

It’s also very difficult to game the residency for tax benefits, especially when your occupation is public, same with when and where you travel to.

Are players in some tax advantaged states making more money? Yes, but it’s not some not new found gold mine.
Click to expand...
The tax you are referring to is called the jock tax. Anyone not familiar can just google that.
 
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saintunspecified

Registered User
Nov 30, 2017
6,276
4,511
impaaaaaact said:
Some teams have more advantages than others (again, this is corroborated by NHL General Manager Barry Trotz). As far as I can tell, the Isles don't really offer any perks that any other middle of the road franchise can't. In addition you're guaranteed to play about 45 games in the second highest taxed state in the country. This lines up with the fact that we haven't made a big free agent signing since... I dunno, Andrew Ladd? Really don't understand why this is a concept that gets so much pushback around here.
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I think it's more correct to say than the Isles do have perks, but that they're the kind of perks that are not flashy, or are not immediately apparent. I really do think that a big part of it is really that NYI have been mediocre at best for most of UFAs lives. I really don't think Garth Snow was taken all that seriously. The only big free agent NYI fished for in the LL regime was Panarin, and we know what happened there. Nothing else has really been in the cards. If NYI add a couple more deep playoff runs in addition to 2019-2020, I think NYI's outlook for attracting free agents will be pretty good. Word about the arena is getting around. Still, I really care more about being attractive to Dobson and Romanov in the short term, because small discounts on those contracts is probably the most important thing for the medium term.

(Also, can we just admit that coming off an awful season, and losing JT, it would have been a miracle to land a major free agent).
 
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Throttle

Throttle

Registered User
Sep 22, 2020
5,778
4,342
doublechili said:
Okay. Just to be clear, I'm not even talking about "nepotism", which I guess is the idea that someone gets an unfair advantage solely because of their family relationship to someone else. Some people choose to (cynically) assume that's always the case. I'm actually talking about the idea that it's at least potentially an advantage to grow up learning about a career field. I'm not saying it's a definitive thing, ie., if your parent is in a field you will be good/great at that field. But, all other things being equal (ie., you're not a screw-up by nature), it seems like it would be an advantage to grow up immersed in a field. Now this assumes that the parent is around and that they share their experiences, which of course may not always be the case. But, if that is the case, it's almost like growing up in a mentorship situation. Seems like it would be helpful. Unfortunately, I don't have personal experience with this! But I've seen people who have benefitted from it.
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If Chris L was hired out of nowhere without any experience, then that would be a not so great look.

However, he’s been learning and processing the game in the management ranks for more than 10-15 years. Ok, yippee, he got his job because his Dad hired him - nothing new there in the world. Would it have been good for him to work for 3-5 years at the NHL or another team, absolutely, but he hasn’t. So be it.
 
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leeroggy

leeroggy

Registered User
Jan 3, 2010
9,737
6,025
IslesNorway said:
Which will not occur until the end of training camp. Nothing will happen between now and then.
Click to expand...
Come on!
Shovels in the ground for the hotel!
Bailey Uniform Retirement Night planning!
Holmstrom meets a girl!
Colombian fans storm Yankee Stadium!
New college major in drawing yellow cards by acting!
The Jets trade for Davante Adams and Cee Dee Lamb
and FINALLY, Sophie Marceau reaches out to me for a coffee . . .
Just wait . . .
 
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mm11

mm11

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
7,108
4,161
Fleming island, Fl
leeroggy said:
Come on!
Shovels in the ground for the hotel!
Bailey Uniform Retirement Night planning!
Holmstrom meets a girl!
Colombian fans storm Yankee Stadium!
New college major in drawing yellow cards by acting!
The Jets trade for Davante Adams and Cee Dee Lamb
and FINALLY, Sophie Marceau reaches out to me for a coffee . . .
Just wait . . .
Click to expand...
Holmstrom meets a girl! kid has a face only a mother can love LGI
 
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