Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[SI]

If Barzal is "elite" then what are Matthews, Kucherov, and McDavid. I totally agree that Sorokin is "Vezina Caliber," but he's certainly not been playing like it this year. And I love Dobson, but he's almost on an island on D.

And even if those 3 were playing up to their potential so much more is needed to be added to this slow/ageing roster...And it's not easy to be done given the contracts and tradable assets that Lou has saddled us with.

I love your optimism, but it lacks honesty about where this roster is and what can be done to imrpove it.




There it is...The (honorable) optimism again. Given what you saw today are you just going to ignore it and move the optimism over to the next game? Do you want Lou to buy at the deadline?

This game is rock bottom.

There are 8 games before the deadline and if the results continue to be similar to what we have seen this month, then no Lou should not buy at the deadline. They should take the rest of the season as a step back and evaluate who belongs, what they have, who they keep, and who they bid adieu.

Again, if they do not make the playoffs, then IMO, Lou will make some changes.

 

[SI]

The Canucks roster is quite a bit better than ours, and they did a smart retool. Should be a model we pursue now. It wasn't just Hronek, they brought in Lafferty, Cole and Soucy, plus a great coach. They also moved out Horvat, which might tell you something. I think we could follow a similar retool if we move the right players out, and the right ones in.

Soucy has been hurt most of the year and Ian Cole plays bottom pair minutes.

The top players on this team - Hughes, Petey, Boeser (returning to a 30 goal guy), Demko, Myers, Miller are the core and all TURNED it on this year at the same time. Hronek was a big shot in the arm for them - the trade was essentially Hronek for Horvat... the other pieces you mention good role players but not the players that moved the needle.

 

[Glorydays22]

It sucks to lose to the Rags...but to be honest, this is what we need. More embarrassing loses especially in prime time for these f***ing idiots who own the team to make a f***ing move and get rid of Lou and this shitty old core.

 

[periferal]

This game is rock bottom.

There are 8 games before the deadline and if the results continue to be similar to what we have seen this month, then no Lou should not buy at the deadline. They should take the rest of the season as a step back and evaluate who belongs, what they have, who they keep, and who they bid adieu.

Again, if they do not make the playoffs, then IMO, Lou will make some changes.

1. Again...Given the state of the roster, cap, farm system, and draft picks...There's no combination of moves that can make this team a Cup contender next season.
2. Given how he's gotten us into this mess, while continually saying how much he believes in this team...Lou should NOT be given the chance to try regardless.

 

[Glorydays22]

1. Again...Given the state of the roster, cap, farm system, and draft picks...There's no combination of moves that can make this team a Cup contender next season.
2. Lou should NOT be given the chance to try regardless.

1000%%%

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Totally agree, assuming Roy received a 3 year contract as rumored then this year is an evaluation period to see which players are buying in and which players are capable of producing in Roy’s system.

This exactly, there is trial by fire going on right now.

 

[YearlyLottery]

1. Again...Given the state of the roster, cap, farm system, and draft picks...There's no combination of moves that can make this team a Cup contender next season.
2. Given how he's gotten us into this mess, while continually saying how much he believes in this team...Lou should NOT be given the chance to try regardless.

While I do not think the future is nearly as doom and gloom the one thing I fully agree on is Lou's time is done here for me if they miss the playoffs. Full respect for him but it is time to move on.

 

[The Real JT]

I just spent a few minutes looking over the old threads that announced the Mayfield and Engvall signings last offseason.

Rather than publicly shame the majority who approved of those deals, I’d rather identify those who saw these deals for what they were from the onset.

These are my candidates for the mid season amateur GM awards.

Mayfield:

Engvall:

Engvall:

 

[periferal]

I just spent a few minutes looking over the old threads that announced the Mayfield and Engvall signings last offseason.

Rather than publicly shame the majority who approved of those deals, I’d rather identify those who saw these deals for what they were from the onset.

These are my candidates for the mid season amateur GM awards.

Mayfield:
View attachment 822083

Engvall:
View attachment 822084
Engvall:
View attachment 822085

Love this post. Always keep the receipts (or be willing to look them up).

 

[BelovedIsles]

Link expired, but I damn well remember stating that you don’t give out 7 year deals to middle 6 forwards or bottom pairing d men.

 

[Chockey22]

Soucy has been hurt most of the year and Ian Cole plays bottom pair minutes.

The top players on this team - Hughes, Petey, Boeser (returning to a 30 goal guy), Demko, Myers, Miller are the core and all TURNED it on this year at the same time. Hronek was a big shot in the arm for them - the trade was essentially Hronek for Horvat... the other pieces you mention good role players but not the players that moved the needle.

Don't get me wrong - the emergence of the core is the story there, as you correctly note; but the point is they are surrounded by good, cheap, depth - Blueger, Lafferty, Suter were brought on for far less, and fewer years than Engvall but have outplayed him and the rest of our third and fourth lines. The Canucks offseason compared to our offseason is almost as important as the stellar play of their stars (all of whom are a notch above ours)

 

[Glorydays22]

It sucks to lose to the Rags...but to be honest, this is what we need. More embarrassing losses especially in prime time for these f***ing idiots who own the team to make a f***ing move and get rid of Lou and this shitty old core.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

This is one of the most subliminally powerful posts I've seen here in a long time.

A response that says nothing and alas, so much at once.

 

[Potvottier]

Don't get me wrong - the emergence of the core is the story there, as you correctly note; but the point is they are surrounded by good, cheap, depth - Blueger, Lafferty, Suter were brought on for far less, and fewer years than Engvall but have outplayed him and the rest of our third and fourth lines. The Canucks offseason compared to our offseason is almost as important as the stellar play of their stars (all of whom are a notch above ours)

I don't believe there's any evidence that would suggest that Horvat was a negative while in Vancouver. The only issue that I knew of, was salary. You are right about your GM doing a good job. He did, and it allowed him to trade an excess star, to fill a hole. Kudos to him.

It isn't easy to draw free agents to the island, so Horvat is a pretty good catch, in my opinion. In Vancouver it could be that there was tension between him and somebody else, and therefore a net plus for them, as well.

Other than the fact that I thought that Lou overpaid a bit for Horvat, I think it is a deal that benefited both parties.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Link expired, but I damn well remember stating that you don’t give out 7 year deals to middle 6 forwards or bottom pairing d men.

I think the general consensus was that the deals were too long. I certainly said as much. But, seriously, these are hardly millstone contracts. They are not things preventing the team from doing things. On the other hand, the Lee contract and to a lesser extent the Pageau one are not great. You have a handful expiring contracts this year and next. The team can make adjustments. This argument that the team is stuck has no merit, IMO. Most of the "burn it down" talk is reactionary and irrational. There's an argument to be made for it, but most of the posts I've seen are just bloviated nonsense or ideological claptrap.

 

[YearlyLottery]

The Engvall deal and him as a player is not a huge deal for me. He is a third liner that has been pushed into a top six role. If he was playing third line minutes where he belongs there would not be nearly as many complaints.

 

[The Real JT]

I think the general consensus was that the deals were too long. I certainly said as much. But, seriously, these are hardly millstone contracts. They are not things preventing the team from doing things. On the other hand, the Lee contract and to a lesser extent the Pageau one are not great. You have a handful expiring contracts this year and next. The team can make adjustments. This argument that the team is stuck has no merit, IMO. Most of the "burn it down" talk is reactionary and irrational. There's an argument to be made for it, but most of the posts I've seen are just bloviated nonsense or ideological claptrap.

If I were a teacher I’d give you partial credit.

No single contract from last year is a back breaker but drip, drip, drip, they all add up. They’re bad now and will undoubtedly be progressively worse over subsequent seasons.

The “burn it down” talk is hyperbole. Sure there are a few here with that mentality but the majority of Lou doubters believe we have a core of talented players that should not be traded. I’ll add that there are an equal and possibly greater number of posters here that see any suggestion of retooling or trading for futures as equivalent to a “burn it down” mentality. That’s just not true.

 

[crashthenet]

I think the general consensus was that the deals were too long. I certainly said as much. But, seriously, these are hardly millstone contracts. They are not things preventing the team from doing things. On the other hand, the Lee contract and to a lesser extent the Pageau one are not great. You have a handful expiring contracts this year and next. The team can make adjustments. This argument that the team is stuck has no merit, IMO. Most of the "burn it down" talk is reactionary and irrational. There's an argument to be made for it, but most of the posts I've seen are just bloviated nonsense or ideological claptrap.

The contract discussion in hindsight is relative long-term but looking at the present season, it doesn't answer questions about some of the players that are on the hook for poor performances or poor decision making.

JGP numbers are deceptive. He has lost many crucial late game faceoffs. Deploying him in some instances has been puzzling. Offensively he is a blackhole. He has routinely been used on the PK and in OT.

Mayfield on the PK has been a disaster since early in the season. He is not a smart man but he is performing at a ridiculously low level. Mental mistakes exacerbated by a physical limitation? Perhaps. He was never fleet of foot but he is really laboring. 7 vs 5 years wouldn't change that.

Dobson is an offensive force but I feel he was performing better during the injuries to Pulock and Pelech injuries.Perhaps skill vs skill suited him better. Houda is a problem here.

Speaking of Houda, he is a part of the problem. A big one.

Czikas being somewhat marginalized is problem. I'd rather have him in some instances over JGP.

Bottom 6 wingers generate absolutely nothing offensively. Engvall more of a third liner than second. Tatar or maybe Duclair would have been a good add.

Just some thoughts.

 

[seafoam]

Take Scott Mayfield off the f***ing PK and bury the shit out if his minutes. This guy has been objectively GARBAGE and needs to be put in his place. Please for the love of god we need some accountability.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

No single contract from last year is a back breaker but drip, drip, drip, they all add up. They’re bad now and will undoubtedly be progressively worse over subsequent seasons.

The thing is, they can be excised or dealt with individually to stem the dripping. It's not a massive singular problem. It's a collection of relatively minor ones.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

The “burn it down” talk is hyperbole. Sure there are a few here with that mentality but the majority of Lou doubters believe we have a core of talented players that should not be traded.

It's not hyperbole if some people have that mentality. I never said everyone had it. Just a vocal minority that seem to plane in whenever something happens that allows them to rage against the dying of the light.

 

[Throttle]

It's not hyperbole if some people have that mentality. I never said everyone had it. Just a vocal minority that seem to plane in whenever something happens that allows them to rage against the dying of the light.

Oh, and they’ll be so patient and quiet during a rebuild the likes of Buffalo, Montreal, Ottawa, Anaheim.

 

[WangMustGo]

Oh, and they’ll be so patient and quiet during a rebuild the likes of Buffalo, Montreal, Ottawa, Anaheim.

If you were the GM how would you approach it?

 

[Potvottier]

Mayfield has been brain-farting lately, but he has proven before to be very valuable. While I think it is common for someone to sit the bench when they are not playing well, I don't think Lou likes that philosophy. I think that he prefers to try and get that player firing on all cylinders, instead of punishing them.

That's quite a broad statement that I made but I think that is sort of the gist of how Lou will like to handle it. Kind of falls in line with the whole brotherhood theme...

 

[Torrey Redux]

Mayfield has been brain-farting lately, but he has proven before to be very valuable. While I think it is common for someone to sit the bench when they are not playing well, I don't think Lou likes that philosophy. I think that he prefers to try and get that player firing on all cylinders, instead of punishing them.

That's quite a broad statement that I made but I think that is sort of the gist of how Lou will like to handle it. Kind of falls in line with the whole brotherhood theme...

Roy may be a changed man, but even his "new" self would not tolerate that kind of micro-management from the GM regardless of who it is.