Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Throttle]

On Roy, part is breaking old habits, the other is probably about determining . who is really going to commit.

 

[CupHolders]

I think Gaudreau might also be up for grabs, Engvall would need to be part of that package to leverage some of the cap hit - Include Lee and a 1st - the cap hits line up. Gaudreau with Nelson, and Horvat Barzal could be a dynamic 4.

I also believe Anaheim will move Zegras at the draft and they will look for a hockey trade, a young D man, preferably of the same age and draft pedigree, but if they don't find that player then, I can see them going for a high pick and prospect unlikely but if Isles pick lands somewhere in 10-12 range with additional pieces - maybe...?

Conventional thinking would be that he will be. But him signing there in the first place was never conventional. He seemingly accepted a less competitive team for a lifestyle choice. Would the continued losing really make him waive his NMC now, when it didn't hinder him going there in the first place? I honestly don't know the answer just musing...

 

[Throttle]

Conventional thinking would be that he will be. But him signing there in the first place was never conventional. He seemingly accepted a less competitive team for a lifestyle choice. Would the continued losing really make him waive his NMC now, when it didn't hinder him going there in the first place? I honestly don't know the answer just musing...

And do you want a guy like that on your roster? (Nope).

 

[Throttle]

A few thoughts. Guentzel needs a feeder and Nelson isn't it. Barzal-Guentzel and Nelson-Horvat is more likely. Either way, Guentzel coming here is a pretty remote possibility.

I would see if we can trade Lee for Laine with a few additions. Something like Lee and Cizikas for Laine and one of Columbus' 3rd. I listened to Davidson's interview on the Sirius NHL Network and he wants more leadership for his young kids. Laine has had so much dumped on him in Columbus and he might well waive just to start out fresh. He's STILL only 25 years old and has two more years, just like Lee. MacLean showed enough to take the 4th line center role. Laine, with all the hate, still has 54 goals in 129 games the last 2 1/2 seasons, a 34-goal pace, playing with no real center feeding him.

Laine-Barzal-Horvat would be a sick combo since Mat has TWO shooters to feed, not just one. Would make defenses back off and have to spread out, giving him even more maneuver room.

Laine, just like PLD, has demonstrated across multiple teams they have inherent laziness in their game. They are players that have the talent, but don’t have the natural motivation to consistently execute on such talent.

Just like all the warning flags on PLD that LAK knowingly ignored and will pay dearly for it for years to come. Any team acquiring Laine will regret it and it will impact the team.

It’s not a surprise that the teams both of these players have played on haven’t gone anywhere and have gotten coaches fired.

Lou traded for Laine would be the ultimate desperation move - something he’s not gonna do.

 

[Torrey Redux]

All this blabber about trading Lee and/or Nelson and/or Czikas and/or Palmieri or any other player on our roster for the likes of Gaudreau and/or Laine (really!?) and/or blah, blah and musing about whether THEY will waive their NTCs. First of all, it's our guys you have to worry about waiving cause ain't none of 'em gonna leave the comfort of LI for a place that is the center of the dysfunctional hockey universe and Siberia all at the same time. Yeah, yeah, I know it's fun to muse and to speculate, hell, it's right there in the title of the thread, but none of that shit is going to happen.

 

[SI]

Conventional thinking would be that he will be. But him signing there in the first place was never conventional. He seemingly accepted a less competitive team for a lifestyle choice. Would the continued losing really make him waive his NMC now, when it didn't hinder him going there in the first place? I honestly don't know the answer just musing...

I am not sure Gaudreau had many suitors - he didn’t want to go back to Calgary and it could have been getting more $ per year than what New Jersey was offering.

 

[doublechili]

A few thoughts. Guentzel needs a feeder and Nelson isn't it. Barzal-Guentzel and Nelson-Horvat is more likely. Either way, Guentzel coming here is a pretty remote possibility.

I hope so. He's a pending UFA who is turning 30 at the start of next season. Assuming it will take an 8 year contract to extend him, I'll take a hard pass.

 

[seafoam]

I hope so. He's a pending UFA who is turning 30 at the start of next season. Assuming it will take an 8 year contract to extend him, I'll take a hard pass.

Can’t sign an 8 year deal unless the team owns his rights. Thing 7 x 7M per on the open market.

 

[periferal]

Let me walk this back -

IF the team is going to get back in the race, then they need to go on a run. Stringing together a couple of win streaks is very possible. It might seem out of reach with the way they have played but if the playoffs are in their future, then we need to see their best hockey very soon.

You don't see it and that is fine - I think there is still a possibility. This game does not stand still what you witness one moment can be flipped on its head, the next minute. The Canucks were a tire fire last year and with the right coach, approach, and process they flipped completely around. The Flames a couple of seasons ago looked poised to go very deep and IMO, looked unbeatable - they played skilled, fast, and heavy with great goaltending and then the wheels came off the next season. The OILERS f***ing sucked and I watch a ton of Oilers games and then just like that, they rattle off 14 in a row.

You're not paying attention to the the very you're making by yourself. The reasons that teams like the Canucks and Oilers "flipped the script" was because SOMETHING CHANGED with their teams.

In the case of the Canucks, you said it yourself...They got the "right coach." With the Oilers...They were very hot end of last season (lost to the eventual Stanley Cup champions). This year their all-world/top 5 player of all time started out injured and was still not 100% when he came back. Now that he is...They're seemingly unstoppable and back to a strong contender.

The point is...Rarely do things "just change." Something needs to be different...In order for the results to be different. I'm trying to think of an example with the Islanders. Hmmmm...I don't know...Just spittballin' here, but maybe it's like going from wang/snow/capuano and winning ONE (1) playoff series in 20 years...To Malkin/Lou/Trotz and making back to back semi-finals.

Yeah...It's exactly like that.

This Islanders team is sinking and without significant CHANGE TO THE ROSTER...That's the direction they are going to continue. Sure...They might win 5 of 6 at some point, but when you total up the record end of year the results are not going to equal the level of confidence that Lou continues to try and sell us on each passing season.

Changing the coach was a necessary step, but no coach in the world can overcome what this roster has become under Lou's. You seem to be hoping on the equivalent of some magic beans for an Isles turnaround - Just because, but that's not the way it works.

Change the team and you'll change the results. To expect anything else is waiting for something that will never come.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I find it troubling that Roy is still hammering the players on screwing up the fundamentals and we're approaching Game 54 already. This is a "break em down to build em back up" mindset that would have been better served in training camp than mid-February. Roy may have been brought in to save the season but it looks like there's still too many of the little things this team does wrong to correct, and as another poster said, the Islanders are running out of runway.

Eh, Lou doesn't make knee-jerk reactions. I don't think Roy was brought in to save the season. He was brought in to evaluate and build a team around. Be nice to make the playoffs for sure, but pretty sure Lou just wanted to give Roy a head start so they can be ready to adjust the team come off season. Lou is likely resigned to the fact that this team has gone as far as it can and it's time to shift the philosophy under a different coach. He'll accept a lot of the blame like he normally does, but i expect many changes this offseason.

 

[LeapOnOver]

You're not paying attention to the the very you're making by yourself. The reasons that teams like the Canucks and Oilers "flipped the script" was because SOMETHING CHANGED with their teams.

In the case of the Canucks, you said it yourself...They got the "right coach." With the Oilers...They were very hot end of last season (lost to the eventual Stanley Cup champions). This year their all-world/top 5 player of all time started out injured and was still not 100% when he came back. Now that he is...They're seemingly unstoppable and back to a strong contender.

The point is...Rarely do things "just change." Something needs to be different...In order for the results to be different. I'm trying to think of an example with the Islanders. Hmmmm...I don't know...Just spittballin' here, but maybe it's like going from wang/snow/capuano and winning ONE (1) playoff series in 20 years...To Malkin/Lou/Trotz and making back to back semi-finals.

Yeah...It's exactly like that.

This Islanders team is sinking and without significant CHANGE TO THE ROSTER...That's the direction they are going to continue. Sure...They might win 5 of 6 at some point, but when you total up the record end of year the results are not going to equal the level of confidence that Lou continues to try and sell us on each passing season.

Changing the coach was a necessary step, but no coach in the world can overcome what this roster has become under Lou's. You seem to be hoping on the equivalent of some magic beans for an Isles turnaround - Just because, but that's not the way it works.

Change the team and you'll change the results. To expect anything else is waiting for something that will never come.

I don't really think the Canucks roster is that much better than ours talent wise. Sure, their key players are younger, but all they got was a coaching change and added Hronek to the dcorp (which was not a minor addition). Roy should be able to win more than lose with this roster. I just don't think the runway is long enough to make the playoffs.

 

[SI]

You're not paying attention to the the very you're making by yourself. The reasons that teams like the Canucks and Oilers "flipped the script" was because SOMETHING CHANGED with their teams.

In the case of the Canucks, you said it yourself...They got the "right coach." With the Oilers...They were very hot end of last season (lost to the eventual Stanley Cup champions). This year their all-world/top 5 player of all time started out injured and was still not 100% when he came back. Now that he is...They're seemingly unstoppable and back to a strong contender.

The point is...Rarely do things "just change." Something needs to be different...In order for the results to be different. I'm trying to think of an example with the Islanders. Hmmmm...I don't know...Just spittballin' here, but maybe it's like going from wang/snow/capuano and winning ONE (1) playoff series in 20 years...To Malkin/Lou/Trotz and making back to back semi-finals.

Yeah...It's exactly like that.

This Islanders team is sinking and without significant CHANGE TO THE ROSTER...That's the direction they are going to continue. Sure...They might win 5 of 6 at some point, but when you total up the record end of year the results are not going to equal the level of confidence that Lou continues to try and sell us on each passing season.

Changing the coach was a necessary step, but no coach in the world can overcome what this roster has become under Lou's. You seem to be hoping on the equivalent of some magic beans for an Isles turnaround - Just because, but that's not the way it works.

Change the team and you'll change the results. To expect anything else is waiting for something that will never come.

The same things that were being touted by pundits on the west coast of Canada about the Canucks last season, in the off-season, and at the early stages of the season. The right coach and process can change a lot - we saw it firsthand with Trotz and I think Roy can be that same type of influence that Tocchet had on the Canucks, which by the way are both with their second teams.

You have been bellyaching since even before the back-to-back runs about tearing down and starting anew; you were even asking for a tear-down after the first semi-final run. Sorry, but I find your point of view is, albeit passionate, very narrow-minded and reactionary. I believe another poster mentioned it and I agree I believe you do have a myopic point of view of this team.

I see a team that has an elite talent in Barzal, Vezina Caliber Goalie in Sorokin, and Norris trophy candidate in Dobson... does this team need to get younger, faster, and more skilled? Yes. They can address that

Does the team need to start producing and start winning some games? YES, absolutely - I think it will start tomorrow in the Stadium Series.

Let's go Isles.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Sorry, but I find your point of view is, albeit passionate, very narrow-minded and reactionary.

It's ideological.

Ever known one of those people that are, "I'll be successful when XYZ happen" and they self-sabotage XYZ by making it unobtainable or so ambiguous it'll never happen? That way they can always displace responsibility and never have to face potential failure? It's a comfort zone padded by delusion.

 

[doublechili]

Can’t sign an 8 year deal unless the team owns his rights. Thing 7 x 7M per on the open market.

I meant if Lou trades for him with the idea of extending him a la Horvat (and Lou hasn't done a pure rental yet, at least not for any kind of significant price). So if he came to the Isles it would be an 8 year extension, which would be a bad idea.

 

[doublechili]

You're not paying attention to the the very you're making by yourself. The reasons that teams like the Canucks and Oilers "flipped the script" was because SOMETHING CHANGED with their teams.

In the case of the Canucks, you said it yourself...They got the "right coach." With the Oilers...They were very hot end of last season (lost to the eventual Stanley Cup champions). This year their all-world/top 5 player of all time started out injured and was still not 100% when he came back. Now that he is...They're seemingly unstoppable and back to a strong contender.

The point is...Rarely do things "just change." Something needs to be different...In order for the results to be different. I'm trying to think of an example with the Islanders. Hmmmm...I don't know...Just spittballin' here, but maybe it's like going from wang/snow/capuano and winning ONE (1) playoff series in 20 years...To Malkin/Lou/Trotz and making back to back semi-finals.

Yeah...It's exactly like that.

This Islanders team is sinking and without significant CHANGE TO THE ROSTER...That's the direction they are going to continue. Sure...They might win 5 of 6 at some point, but when you total up the record end of year the results are not going to equal the level of confidence that Lou continues to try and sell us on each passing season.

Changing the coach was a necessary step, but no coach in the world can overcome what this roster has become under Lou's. You seem to be hoping on the equivalent of some magic beans for an Isles turnaround - Just because, but that's not the way it works.

Change the team and you'll change the results. To expect anything else is waiting for something that will never come.

VAN and EDM changed coaches and made a few roster adjustments and now they're successful. I'm not sure how that fits into the narrative of the hopelessly flawed roster with millstone contracts such that a rebuild is needed? The results in VAN and EDM support a more moderate approach, no?

(I edited when I realized I typed "hopefully" instead of "hopelessly" )

 

[MJF]

Eh, Lou doesn't make knee-jerk reactions. I don't think Roy was brought in to save the season. He was brought in to evaluate and build a team around. Be nice to make the playoffs for sure, but pretty sure Lou just wanted to give Roy a head start so they can be ready to adjust the team come off season. Lou is likely resigned to the fact that this team has gone as far as it can and it's time to shift the philosophy under a different coach. He'll accept a lot of the blame like he normally does, but i expect many changes this offseason.

Lou's in-season moves have generally been attempts to save a foundering season. The only in-season move that wasn't was the Palmieri trade. From Pageau to Horvat those were attempts to right a ship that was going off course.

 

[Throttle]

Lou's in-season moves have generally been attempts to save a foundering season. The only in-season move that wasn't was the Palmieri trade. From Pageau to Horvat those were attempts to right a ship that was going off course.

Or fill in holes that the team needed and couldn’t be obtained via free agency…

 

[Glory Days]

Eh, Lou doesn't make knee-jerk reactions. I don't think Roy was brought in to save the season. He was brought in to evaluate and build a team around. Be nice to make the playoffs for sure, but pretty sure Lou just wanted to give Roy a head start so they can be ready to adjust the team come off season. Lou is likely resigned to the fact that this team has gone as far as it can and it's time to shift the philosophy under a different coach. He'll accept a lot of the blame like he normally does, but i expect many changes this offseason.

Totally agree, assuming Roy received a 3 year contract as rumored then this year is an evaluation period to see which players are buying in and which players are capable of producing in Roy’s system.

 

[MJF]

Or fill in holes that the team needed and couldn’t be obtained via free agency…

That caused a season to nearly get away.

 

[doublechili]

IDK, my recollection is that the 3rd line hole was a pretty long-standing thing prior to trading for Pageau (Tanner Fritz, anyone?). And Horvat was an opportunity to get a really good player who checks a lot of boxes, and lock him up long-term.

 

[CupHolders]

And do you want a guy like that on your roster? (Nope).

To be clear, I really am not considering Gaudreau for the Isles. I just find what may or may not happen with him a little intriguing.

But I will also add, that Lou is often pigeonholed as a GM into preferring a particular kind of forward… someone who plays more of a complete two-way game who fits an overall structured group.

But in the past, he has always targeted a player or two (ie. Mogilny, Kovalchuk) to mixup his forwards with more skill. Keeping with the Russian theme, I can see Tarasenko as a target… if the Isles are still in it.

I would prefer a younger player like Buchnevich. Especially, if it included moving out some older core members in a retooling.

 

[periferal]

I see a team that has an elite talent in Barzal, Vezina Caliber Goalie in Sorokin, and Norris trophy candidate in Dobson... does this team need to get younger, faster, and more skilled? Yes. They can address that

If Barzal is "elite" then what are Matthews, Kucherov, and McDavid. I totally agree that Sorokin is "Vezina Caliber," but he's certainly not been playing like it this year. And I love Dobson, but he's almost on an island on D.

And even if those 3 were playing up to their potential so much more is needed to be added to this slow/ageing roster...And it's not easy to be done given the contracts and tradable assets that Lou has saddled us with.

I love your optimism, but it lacks honesty about where this roster is and what can be done to imrpove it.

Does the team need to start producing and start winning some games? YES, absolutely - I think it will start tomorrow in the Stadium Series.

Let's go Isles.

There it is...The (honorable) optimism again. Given what you saw today are you just going to ignore it and move the optimism over to the next game? Do you want Lou to buy at the deadline?

 

[Chockey22]

I don't really think the Canucks roster is that much better than ours talent wise. Sure, their key players are younger, but all they got was a coaching change and added Hronek to the dcorp (which was not a minor addition). Roy should be able to win more than lose with this roster. I just don't think the runway is long enough to make the playoffs.

The Canucks roster is quite a bit better than ours, and they did a smart retool. Should be a model we pursue now. It wasn't just Hronek, they brought in Lafferty, Cole and Soucy, plus a great coach. They also moved out Horvat, which might tell you something. I think we could follow a similar retool if we move the right players out, and the right ones in.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

If Barzal is "elite" then what are Matthews, Kucherov, and McDavid.

Those players are S tier types. I mean, there's maybe 4-6 players in the NHL at that level. Barzal is more of an A tier.

 

[islesfan3913]

I’m officially on the “tear it down” side of things and think we should absolutely sell at the deadline, and we should honestly look at kickstarting a bit of a rebuild or at least a major retooling. I know the organization wouldn’t have the balls to do it, but Barzal’s M-NTC kicks in after this season and moving him would be by far the best way to get assets to help in a rebuild. He’s forced to play RW now that Horvat is here and at a $9 million, that’s an awful lot to pay for a winger or can barely crack 20 goals at best. I love his game and watching him play, but I fail to see a way forward that involves building around him when we have zero assets we can use to add players other than draft picks which we continually deal away which destroys any prospect system we might have.

Barzal and Nelson both would bring back a huge haul in deadline deals and I just don’t see the reasoning as to why it would be a bad idea to actively shop them both when we’re a very middling team at best that will realistically be stuck in purgatory during the course of the longer term deals we have on the books. We have a great goaltender and a very solid defensive group that is locked up to reasonable deals and none are really old, so blowing up the offense and restarting from scratch may be the best way to try to make something of this mess.