Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Glorydays22]

Nelson for Colton, Ritchie and a first with someone like Kivaranta to balance out the money?

I would love this deal for Nelson....

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Maybe, who knows, but if you wanna rid yourself of the players that aren’t getting it done, just rip the bandaid off and get going. It’s also a statement to the other players for the rest of the season.

If they do fall out of it and someone offers a first and a prospect with no salary retained I’d imagine they’d listen seriously. If they win say next four or five in a row I bet they buy.

 

[Strummergas]

So we're just going to ignore the same and predictable pattern of the last 5 years and magically think it's going to be different *this year*...? It's more like...

We've seen.

This is YOUR worldview. Don't project you myopic vision on me.

When I wrote "we'll see", it wasn't necessarily in contradiction or defiance to what you said. It was a a literal statement; we'll see what the future holds. I largely stay away from making predictions about this team. They rarely pan out, and when they do, it's more often coincidental than due to any real insight into the game or the business of hockey. A blind squirrel finding a nut scenario.

If this team doesn't make the playoffs this season, then something will obviously have to give with this roster. The easiest thing to do, or not do in this case, is to not re-sign a player on an expiring contract that will send them to unrestricted free agency, who is in their mid-30s and no longer as effective as they once were . It requires zero effort. So once again, we'll see.

I will say this though; should those two return, with players like Fasching and Gauthier already under contract for next year and making no money, I'll officially be in the "need a new GM" camp.

 

[LeapOnOver]

He was responding to a poster hypothesizing that the Islanders would need to win 7 of 9 to get back into the race. Sure, that kind of play would vault the Canadiens back into the race too.

His point was that using the evidence of the last 200ish games of Islanders hockey, the odds of sustained successful play are quite low.

But at the same time he's bringing up "history" when it comes to Lou's moves, but ignores the history of last season where Isles finished as one of the best teams in the league, without Barzal, to make the playoffs. I'm not saying they'll do this again, but why cherry pick only the history you want. Perif is as unhinged as ever these days.

 

[Torrey Redux]

But at the same time he's bringing up "history" when it comes to Lou's moves, but ignores the history of last season where Isles finished as one of the best teams in the league, without Barzal, to make the playoffs. I'm not saying they'll do this again, but why cherry pick only the history you want. Perif is as unhinged as ever these days.

You think the Islander's were one of the best teams in the league last season?? And you're calling someone else unhinged.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

but why cherry pick only the history you want.

You know why.

 

[periferal]

Sorry perif, but this is the biggest load of bullshit coming from you of all people on here... this is your shtick and has been for as long as I've been on here. I know you're as passionate as they come around here, but come on dude.

No idea what you're talking about here. If you're going to take such a huge swing with such a passionate/fire post, at least explain your point.

 

[periferal]

This is YOUR worldview. Don't project you myopic vision on me.

When I wrote "we'll see", it wasn't necessarily in contradiction or defiance to what you said. It was a a literal statement; we'll see what the future holds. I largely stay away from making predictions about this team. They rarely pan out, and when they do, it's more often coincidental than due to any real insight into the game or the business of hockey. A blind squirrel finding a nut scenario.

If this team doesn't make the playoffs this season, then something will obviously have to give with this roster. The easiest thing to do, or not do in this case, is to not re-sign a player on an expiring contract that will send them to unrestricted free agency, who is in their mid-30s and no longer as effective as they once were . It requires zero effort. So once again, we'll see.

I will say this though; should those two return, with players like Fasching and Gauthier already under contract for next year and making no money, I'll officially be in the "need a new GM" camp.

And this is the point right here...

Some people want Lou fired right now...Some still like him and trust him to run this team for the foreseeable future...And the rest of fans are somewhere in-between.

And at the same time some people are ok just enjoying "Islanders hockey..." And others are dying for a Cup.

We're all unique and not only want different things...But even if we agree we may not agree on how to get there.

 

[SI]

This is when you know things aren't good - When you're projecting the future as opposed to looking at what is happening....

Sat, Jan 13	@Nashville	L3-1	19-13-10	Sorokin	Sorokin
Mon, Jan 15	@Minnesota	L5-0	19-14-10	Sorokin	Sorokin
Tue, Jan 16	@Winnipeg	L4-2	19-15-10	Sorokin	Lee
Fri, Jan 19	@Chicago	L4-3 OT	19-15-11	Sorokin	Palmieri
Sun, Jan 21	vsDallas	W3-2 OT	20-15-11	Sorokin	Sorokin
Tue, Jan 23	vsVegas	L3-2	20-16-11	Sorokin	Dobson
Thu, Jan 25	@Montreal	L4-3	20-17-11	Varlamov	Barzal
Sat, Jan 27	vsFlorida	L3-2 OT	20-17-12	Varlamov	Varlamov
Mon, Feb 5	@Toronto	W3-2	21-17-12	Sorokin	Sorokin
Thu, Feb 8	vsTampa Bay	W6-2	22-17-12	Sorokin	Horvat
Sat, Feb 10	vsCalgary	L5-2	22-18-12	Varlamov	Palmieri
Tue, Feb 13	vsSeattle	L2-1 SO	22-18-13	Sorokin	Sorokin

How much more lackluster, if not terrible, play has to happen right in front of our eyes before we can all finally admit this roster is not only not good enough to win a Cup, but will continue to only get further away with each passing season?

Change can be a very good thing. In the case of the Isles it's actually very necessary.

This game ebbs and flows - nothing is permanent in this game. Teams play like shit, team go on a roll, teams peak, etc. I am not saying they will go on a run just stating the fact that a run is needed to propel them back into the race.

Yes, they have played like shit the last few weeks but there is time for them to right this, especially with so many flawed teams in the East. Their time is running out, so they better get going.

If they do not make the playoffs, then most here will get their wish - roster changes will be made.

I would love this deal for Nelson....

Why?

Calum Ritchie is nothing special, Ross Colton is a top 9 F making 4m, and that first might be a very low pick in a weak draft.

 

[periferal]

This game ebbs and flows - nothing is permanent in this game. Teams play like shit, team go on a roll, teams peak, etc. I am not saying they will go on a run just stating the fact that a run is needed to propel them back into the race.

Except that every year half the teams miss the playoffs, and others draft in the top 10. Those teams play like shit a majority of the season and do not go on "rolls."

The Islanders team we loved 3-4 years ago and made those unforgettable runs is hitting a wall right in front of our eyes.

Yes, they have played like shit the last few weeks but there is time for them to right this, especially with so many flawed teams in the East. Their time is running out, so they better get going.

Most nights when the Isles take the ice the team they are playing usually is younger, faster, and has more talent then they do. And for some reason this year the team isn't outworking their opponent and Sorokin is playing the worst hockey he ever has.

There's really no substantial reason to this this team is going to win the roughly 75% (or more) of their remaining games to even just sneak into the playoffs.

If they do not make the playoffs, then most here will get their wish - roster changes will be made.

There is limited cap space already for next season, barely any players/contracts to trade for anything of value, and zero farm system to tap into or trade.

The changes that *may* be made will be limited and won't materially change the direction of the team in the short term.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

This is YOUR worldview. Don't project you myopic vision on me.

Just want to mention that anybody saying "Person XXX has done action YYY the entire time he's been in job ZZZ, so it stands to reason that person XXX will continue doing YYY as long as he's conducting job ZZZ" isn't expressing a worldview or saying anything myopic.

Quite the opposite.

Using previous evidence to make any kind of read on what is likely to happen is basically the only sound argument that can be made, knowing that the future can't be read anyhow.

When it comes to Lou, I mean, common. The guy has been pretty doggone straight forward in his modi operandi the entire time he's been here.

If he surprises us, he surprises us. Great.

But there's no evidence that he's going to be changing his patterns of business.

I hope folks aren't ready to view posters here as debbie downers or whatever simply because they discuss this team with this point always in mind?

 

[LeapOnOver]

You think the Islander's were one of the best teams in the league last season?? And you're calling someone else unhinged.

I just worded it wrong. I meant they finished with one of the best records in the NHL the last third of the season. My bad. I was typing quickly and didn't put "to close the season". So yes, I'm still calling him unhinged.

 

[Potvottier]

I still haven't figured out who this team is. They are not crap team, and despite being veterans they seem to all be holding their stick a bit too tightly.

I don't think we need to make much of a move to make much of a splash. Our boys are mostly vets, and this is the exact kind of situation that they were brought in for. Not saying they won't panic, but chances are on our side. Our team is 500 the last few games, and that's right in par with the other teams that were battling with. There is time.

I think Lou's regime has quietly improved the product, although not significantly skill-wise, he brought in character.

I think we have some fuel in the tank but we need Sorokin to stand on his head.

FWIW... I'm happy with Roy so far.

 

[MarsTBOW]

Let's see if their game becomes "More Desperate".
I see an older team with their heads spinning while trying to keep up with younger faster teams and I think Roster Changes are needed.

Some quotes here...

"With 56 points and a record of 22-18-13, the Islanders sit seven points out of a playoff position in the Metropolitan Division. Now, their most likely path to the postseason is a wild card spot, which they’re three points back of.

The hole the Islanders dug themselves was already waist-deep when Roy arrived just before the All-Star break to replace former head coach Lane Lambert.

In his first week on the job, all Roy saw was a renewed conviction from both the team and its fan base. But now that the initial high has faded, he’s seen the team regress back to their old ways and heard the fans respond accordingly.

“[Against Seattle], I was like the fans,” Roy said. “The fans didn’t like the two minutes we were in our zone, and they booed the team, which is okay. I understand that. They deserved to do it. They paid for tickets for this. I think if we were to compete a little bit better, we could have fixed that.”

At the end of practice on Wednesday, Roy bag-skated the Islanders, doing his best Herb Brooks impression while having them skate up and down the ice on end. Tired and out of breath, the players clearly understood Roy’s message.

“We have to add some desperation into our game,” Noah Dobson told Hockey Now. “There’s no time to waste. Games are running out. We got some points to make up, so by adding that desperation and playing with a playoff mentality each night here from here on out, the rest will take care of itself.”

The practice was similar to one a team would have during training camp. But with only 29 games remaining on their schedule, the Islanders cannot go back to the beginning.

All they can do is push forward and make sure Wednesday wasn’t just a one-off.

“Time will tell,” Roy said. “I think this is a good group. This is a group that wants to do well. It’s what you do every day that builds that. It’s not just saying, ‘I want to be there today.’ No, it’s who embraces it and what you do every day about it.”

 

[saintunspecified]

I have a hard time imagining that the reason Adam Pelech getting consistently caught from behind & having the puck stripped is that he isn't working hard enough. Seems more likley to me that he's either not healthy, or he's lost a step for good.

I don't see how more skating is going to help Horvat, Barzal, Dobson, or Romanov look *less* run down. None of them are Conor McDavid whose 65% is better than everyone else's 100%.

But, heck, what do I know.

 

[Strummergas]

Just want to mention that anybody saying "Person XXX has done action YYY the entire time he's been in job ZZZ, so it stands to reason that person XXX will continue doing YYY as long as he's conducting job ZZZ" isn't expressing a worldview or saying anything myopic.

Quite the opposite.

Using previous evidence to make any kind of read on what is likely to happen is basically the only sound argument that can be made, knowing that the future can't be read anyhow.

When it comes to Lou, I mean, common. The guy has been pretty doggone straight forward in his modi operandi the entire time he's been here.

If he surprises us, he surprises us. Great.

But there's no evidence that he's going to be changing his patterns of business.

I hope folks aren't ready to view posters here as debbie downers or whatever simply because they discuss this team with this point always in mind?

True. However, it is the poster's MO to never account for the possibility of change and his refusal to take into consideration the nuance of individual situations. Everything is always lumped together, regardless of the details and circumstances. Cut and dry, black and white; any excuse to post ad nauseum about what he thinks should be happening with this team as if doing so will have some sort of effect on what the outcome is going to be. He doesn't get ragged on for his opinion, he gets shit because of how he chooses to express it. He doesn't care, nor should he have to, but that is the reality of the culture of this board. He's either the most self-righteous person I've ever encountered, or simply enjoys the role of shit-stirrer.

Sure, Lou has not let an UFA go that still wanted to play for the team. But none of those UFAs were as old as Martin and Clutterbuck are, AND as ineffective in their role as they both have been this season; and in Martin's case, last season as well. Sure, Parise was brought back, but on a one year basis and he was very effective in the role he was playing. Perhaps he faltered a bit late last season, but that's also probably why he waited until this current season was almost half over to sign another contract. If the Isles were in a better position to make the playoffs when Parise was ready to return to the ice, I'm sure it would've been for the Isles.

Again, I'm not saying that Lou is definitely not bringing them back. But we just don't know, do we? We have to wait and see what the off-season holds. This isn't about cheerleading for Lou. The last statement of my post was very clear that having Martin and Clutterbuck return would completely sour me to the idea of keeping him as GM. Even if they make the playoffs this year, this roster needs to begin turning over. Attrition is the easiest way for that to start happening, and it needs to start this offseason with this first group of UFAs.

 

[Glorydays22]

Why?

Calum Ritchie is nothing special, Ross Colton is a top 9 F making 4m, and that first might be a very low pick in a weak draft.

Why, because our system sucks. Of the Top 100 prospects (NHL Hockey writer's website. We have 1.... 1 player - Dufour at 93. We need to build up system. Ritchie is rated 72 and he's only 18. Colton is only 27, signed until 2027 for 4M which is reasonable. For now is a decent replacement for Nelson until hopefully guys like Danny Nelson, Gil, Berg and Ritchie to take over.

Regarding the draft pick. I hate to break it to you. If the isles move Nelson, the teams coming from him are ALL playoff bound teams so all of them will be a low 1st rounder. You aren't dealing him to Ottawa, Arizona or Ana....so, not sure what you are thinking when we are considering breaking down this older core.

72. Calum Ritchie, C, Colorado Avalanche​

Calum Ritchie has great puck skills and sometimes it looks like he’s glued the puck to his stick while carving through defenders or when he’s on a breakaway. His skills make him very well suited as a center at the next level with good size, a coveted right-handed shot, good defensive habits (kills penalties quite well), and solid faceoff results. He has the tools to be a top-6 forward, but his offensive game will need to continue to grow as it has this season if he wants to reach that level of play in the NHL.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

He was responding to a poster hypothesizing that the Islanders would need to win 7 of 9 to get back into the race. Sure, that kind of play would vault the Canadiens back into the race too.

His point was that using the evidence of the last 200ish games of Islanders hockey, the odds of sustained successful play are quite low.

Pounding your chest at the lowest point of the season and yelling "told you so they suck" is vapid and stupid. Where was here when the Isles were winning and in a playoff spot? Oh that's right pontificating about how we're not winning the cup anyway. Whatever.

Montreal wasn't a playoff team last year and I don't believe they were even close to being in a playoff spot this year. Very different from the Islanders so I don't get the comparison. Obviously NYI's chances of making the playoffs now, after their recent play, are quite low. 10% according to the stats. But it was over 50% not too long ago.

And for everyone clamoring for a fire sale and a full-scale rebuild this year: it ain't gonna happen.

 

[The Real JT]

Why, because our system sucks. Of the top 100 prospects (NHL hockey writer’s website. We have 1… 1 player - Dufour at 93. We need to build up system. Ritchie is rated 72 and he's only 18. Colton is only 27, signed until 2027 for 4M which is reasonable. For now is a decent replacement for Nelson until hopefully guys like Danny Nelson, Gil, Berg and Ritchie to take over.

Regarding the draft pick. I hate to break it to you. If the isles move Nelson, the teams coming from him are ALL playoff bound teams so all of them will be a low 1st rounder. You aren't dealing him to Ottawa, Arizona or Ana....so, not sure what you are thinking when we are considering breaking down this older core.

72. Calum Ritchie, C, Colorado Avalanche​

Calum Ritchie has great puck skills and sometimes it looks like he’s glued the puck to his stick while carving through defenders or when he’s on a breakaway. His skills make him very well suited as a center at the next level with good size, a coveted right-handed shot, good defensive habits (kills penalties quite well), and solid faceoff results. He has the tools to be a top-6 forward, but his offensive game will need to continue to grow as it has this season if he wants to reach that level of play in the NHL.

That’s it in a nutshell.

We are all fans here so I get it when people get excited about prospects but this list is a reality check.

Guys like Ishakov, Liukas , Maggio, Odelius and George aren’t even in the top 100. The newer guys like Nelson, Finley, and Gil don’t make it either.

Granted, it’s just one list but holy sh!t doesn’t that scare even the “Win now, this is our window“ crowd?

Sorry but this team is not one player away from being a viable Cup contender. In my mind, there is no player available worth trading for using our futures, even if that player ends up signing a long-term deal with us. We need talented young, cost controlled players, not only to help with the salary cap but also to push the entrenched veterans.

 

[Torrey Redux]

I just worded it wrong. I meant they finished with one of the best records in the NHL the last third of the season. My bad. I was typing quickly and didn't put "to close the season". So yes, I'm still calling him unhinged.

Fair enough, but if you're going to do that kind of in-season record parsing and pick and choose what periods best reflected on the Isles but then call someone else out for being selective in their read of history, well, that's a problem....

 

[periferal]

Just want to mention that anybody saying "Person XXX has done action YYY the entire time he's been in job ZZZ, so it stands to reason that person XXX will continue doing YYY as long as he's conducting job ZZZ" isn't expressing a worldview or saying anything myopic.

Quite the opposite.

Using previous evidence to make any kind of read on what is likely to happen is basically the only sound argument that can be made, knowing that the future can't be read anyhow.

When it comes to Lou, I mean, common. The guy has been pretty doggone straight forward in his modi operandi the entire time he's been here.

If he surprises us, he surprises us. Great.

But there's no evidence that he's going to be changing his patterns of business.

I hope folks aren't ready to view posters here as debbie downers or whatever simply because they discuss this team with this point always in mind?

Man...You have a way with words wrapped in a blanket of calm objectivity that I wish I had. The points are totally on point and presented in a beautiful way.

You're the best poster on here. Always great information shared in the most enjoyably digestible way.

 

[WangMustGo]

Since Christmas we have played 20 games. Anders Lee has contributed 3 goals and 2 assists. A .25 PPG pace playing on the 1st line. He is a black hole, a complete net negative. 2 more seasons after this year. Get him far away from the 1st line.

 

[MarsTBOW]

Since Christmas we have played 20 games. Anders Lee has contributed 3 goals and 2 assists. A .25 PPG pace playing on the 1st line. He is a black hole, a complete net negative. 2 more seasons after this year. Get him far away from the 1st line.

The math does not lie. He has no speed and no longer wins many 1 on 1 battles anymore.

 

[leeroggy]

I'd resign Jon Sim to play the 4th line and feel much better than I do now about the state of the team.

NOW you've done it!
Waiting to hear from the Society to Prevent Cruelty to Jon Sim Again Club . . . 3-2-1
SPC-JSAC on the phone for Perif!

 

[beach]

Before the season, I thought the Isles were a borderline playoff team. And maybe they squeak in again. But this team is going nowhere. They simply do not have the talent. And several players are a shell of what they were, due likely to age. This party is over. To not rebuild is just wasting time. And I'm all for Lou packing it in at this point.