Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Throttle]

Wang bought the Islanders as a method to alter his legacy and reputation. The team wasn’t going anywhere outside of the NY area.

 

[saintunspecified]

i never met the man. In fact I never heard anything about him one way or another. What I do know about him is what was printed…that he was a minority partner of Roy Boe’s, that when Boe bankrupted the Islanders in the late 70s Pickett was called upon to be principal owner to help save the partners’ investment, that Pickett never wanted that role, and that by 1985 he moved to Florida and no longer wanted the Islanders.

That's all compatible with what I've heard, read, and said. And I don't blame people for calling the the rich guy who can't be bothered except when he cuts their salaries names.

About the threat to move, etc. These were the most important issues:

- The lease with the county
- The SMG agreement, and how it interacted with the lease
- The deterioration of the arena, and its inability to drive revenue on the high end (obv interacts with top 2 items)
- The TV deal

When one considers it that way, it's not surprising that once Nassau County was out of the picture, the situation became solvable. On the other hand, I don't find it at all obvious that the TV deal by itself would have been enough to keep the team here if the team had to remain captive to Nassau County. Obviously playing in an arena that was literally a poor fit was better that moving.

(What's more corrupt - tech billionaires or Nassau County? The answer is yes.)

Selfishly, though, I miss the Barclay's days just wrt my personal convenience.

 

[crashthenet]

Serious question and I hate beating a dead horse in wang/snow era, but was team really in danger of leaving?

Yeah rumors of KC, but it’s been years and we have yet to see any NHL franchise considered for that area.

I cant imagine the NHL letting a New York market team leave for a small market. I know the point is moot, but was the team really gonna get relocated? Personally I don’t think it would ever have happened.

I also know there’s a lot of nuance to the answer to this question. And I’m not trying to get into a debate about Wang I lived through that era. I made up my own mind. I’m just checking to see if anyone knows of anything that pointed to a relocation being real.

I believe without the Sportschannel money they would have ceased to have been viable. Plenty of nights that place was prettty empty. They had a terrible concession contract and recieved none of that revenue. They also received pennies on the dollar from parking. While KC was certainly mentioned as was Quebec, we may have seen a more viable location emerge if the malaise continued. One of my fondest memories of the Wang era was the Trottier ceremony.

 

[periferal]

This team was just about out of here. His ultimate folly was retaining MIlbury but his purchase of the team and the legacy Sportschannel contract really are the only things that kept the franchise here. Had he been able to build what he wanted which is now pretty much what is happening in Elmont, things would have been better for it.

People who say that "wang saved the Isles" just seems to be regurgitating this idea without ever describing how it would've actually happened.

These people just ignore the SMG lease that had the Islanders LOCKED into the Coliseum until 2015. It was so bad that there were lawsuits to get out of it and Nassau even discussed trying to terminate it via eminent domain and all of it was unsuccessful.

It's the reason why we had multiple clown owners from the Gang of 4, Spano, and Wang during that period. It's literally no coincidence that right as the SMG lease was ending that a real owner came along and purchased the organization.

And the Idea that Bettman or the NHL would even want the Isles to move away from the NY area is insane. The Isles are currently the 10th moth valuable franchise in the entire league and in no other market they would've moved to in 2015 (KC, Quebec, etc) would that have been the case.

End of day wang didn't save anything. He was simply a placeholder until the SMG lease expired and professionals could take over. Even post-SMG lease wang could never have accomplished what Malkin has.

 

[IslesNorway]

Fcuk, I wish we had a separate Wang thread on this board. People somehow never tire of discussing that old crap.

 

[BelovedIsles]

That list is interesting. There are a lot of excellent forwards there who don't sprint a lot. A whole bunch of them in the first column have high-end hockey sense (Stone, Pavelski, Marchessault, Tkachuk, Robertson, O'Reilly).

Absolutely. I know the 'nuuu' NHL is all about speed; the list illustrates that one can still thrive without it. Combine IQ and skill.

 

[The Real JT]

Absolutely. I know the 'nuuu' NHL is all about speed; the list illustrates that one can still thrive without it. Combine IQ and skill.

For those Jeopardy fans out there, might I suggest signing James Holzhauer? I hear he’s a free agent. Not sure if he can skate though.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Wang bought the Islanders as a method to alter his legacy and reputation. The team wasn’t going anywhere outside of the NY area.

We had awful attendance, fan support (in terms of casuals) and are a smaller market (we don't attract people from the city, it all comes from LI). Why do people think we wouldn't have moved?

 

[MJF]

Absolutely. I know the 'nuuu' NHL is all about speed; the list illustrates that one can still thrive without it. Combine IQ and skill.

IQ? That lets this team out of the conversation.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

And the Idea that Bettman or the NHL would even want the Isles to move away from the NY area is insane. The Isles are currently the 10th moth valuable franchise in the entire league and in no other market they would've moved to in 2015 (KC, Quebec, etc) would that have been the case.

This is a very recent development. And due to Malkin paying a fortune to get the team and then building UBS arena. Prior to that, they were always scrapping the bottom of the barrel in terms franchise value and attendance. The lease and cable deal saved the team, no doubt but they sure as shit coulda been outta here had Wang or the new owner had a different vision.

 

[Throttle]

We had awful attendance, fan support (in terms of casuals) and are a smaller market (we don't attract people from the city, it all comes from LI). Why do people think we wouldn't have moved?

Because it’s still the greater NY metro market, which crushes every other location in the US in terms of market valuation.

Once they left, no one is going to bring a team back to the area.

Bettman and the league played the long game (the correct one) and now have a team on Long Island, seeking to be more NY centric, and with a $1B valuation that’s in the top part of the league.

If they went to some third rate market, no way the team gets such a valuation.

This is a very recent development. And due to Malkin paying a fortune to get the team and then building UBS arena. Prior to that, they were always scrapping the bottom of the barrel in terms franchise value and attendance. The lease and cable deal saved the team, no doubt but they sure as shit coulda been outta here had Wang or the new owner had a different vision.

The owners would have had to approve the relocation, highly doubtful that would have happened. The owners probably realized once you leave such an area, there’s no going back into it in the modern era.

The cable deal absolutely had a huge impact on subsidizing the team.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Get back on topic.

 

[periferal]

 

[seafoam]

It should be noted that while the Islanders' prospect pool is indeed in the bottom quartile of the league, that The Athletic LOVES to shit on the Islanders.

 

[YearlyLottery]

The Holmstrom description (and ranked 5 in the pool) shows me whoever made this list does not follow or watch the organization despite them saying so.

 

[periferal]

It should be noted that while the Islanders' prospect pool is indeed in the bottom quartile of the league, that The Athletic LOVES to shit on the Islanders.

Not saying you're wrong, but can you cite some examples to show that?

 

[PK Cronin]

Not saying you're wrong, but can you cite some examples to show that?

Eck posted this in the prospects thread:



I think that's enough evidence to not take any of these rankings seriously.

 

[leeroggy]

Once 18-year-olds were the draft standard, development within the organization became more time and effort to develop players. Also makes the likelihood of predicting results more likely to miss.

 

[Torrey Redux]

Eck posted this in the prospects thread:



I think that's enough evidence to not take any of these rankings seriously.

A fair reply and good find, but no one should be kidding themselves about the state of the Isles prospect pool just because somebody got it wrong 6 years ago on the other end of the curve. Then again, hope and self-deception is what sells tickets in professional sports and nowhere more so than here in Islander land.

 

[PK Cronin]

A fair reply and good find, but no one should be kidding themselves about the state of the Isles prospect pool just because somebody got it wrong 6 years ago on the other end of the curve. Then again, hope and self-deception is what sells tickets in professional sports and nowhere more so than here in Islander land.

I don't think anyone is kidding themselves, but these rankings are completely meaningless. It takes one good draft and things can change quickly.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Eck posted this in the prospects thread:



I think that's enough evidence to not take any of these rankings seriously.

To be fair, when your highly regarded prospects fail, there's very little chance your b-level ones will succeed either. To me, the prospect pool ratings are how many 'tickets' (regarded prospects) you have to win the lottery (an NHL player). Isles have only a few tickets, hence their terrible rating.

 

[seafoam]

When your NHL roster is essentially full of NHL quality players (albeit lacking high end talent), having a shitty prospect pool is kinda to be expected.

We know The Athletic loves to shit on the Islanders (as we do too), but lets not act like this is a surprise…

 

[IslesNorway]

It doesn't take a genius to add up that a team consistently trading away its picks and a very average scouting unit it dead last in the standings. It's what Lou wants, really.

 

[BelovedIsles]

IQ? That lets this team out of the conversation.

Needs more Josh Bailey.

 

[crashthenet]

Would really be nice to know the status of Pulock, Pelech and Bortuzzo.

A rumor a day or two ago about Vatrano that listed the Isles as a potential destination. At this point another actual NHL winger would be nice. Wonder at what point Duclair and Hoffman move on from SJ?