Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[NYI365]

My father works at a Suffolk county golf course that has frequent notable customers, Director of Player Development Eric Cairns is one of them who frequents the joint. My father has become friendly with him and they muck it up when he comes by.

Anyway, he came by the course today and my father said that Cairns and the entire organization know if they didn't have Ilya and Varly they'd be f***ed and he told my father that "Don't worry, the team will find a way".

I did not like that last sentence I'll tell you that much.

 

[Zeeker]

My father works at a Suffolk county golf course that has frequent notable customers, Director of Player Development Eric Cairns is one of them who frequents the joint. My father has become friendly with him and they muck it up when he comes by.

Anyway, he came by the course today and my father said that Cairns and the entire organization know if they didn't have Ilya and Varly they'd be f***ed and he told my father that "Don't worry, the team will find a way".

I did not like that last sentence I'll tell you that much.

In other words, you’ll tell us that for free?

 

[Osakahaus]

Depends on the situation to me. Could Barzal go to Boston or Edmonton or Tampa Bay or Colorado and have more success? Sure. That's not necessarily indicative of a bad system and could just be the byproduct of him being surrounded by better players than he is and they're elevating him. It'd be similar to Toews for me (I think Barzal is more talented for what it is worth), who is now being praised endlessly around the league. I don't think he's much different from when he was on the Islanders, he's just playing with some world class talent that is elevating him. Take away those players and he'd revert back to what we saw.

Playing with McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Makar, Hedman, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Marchand, McAvoy, etc. should all lead to more production just by the nature of being with better players. The difference is, McDavid would still be McDavid without Barzal. Would it be the same if the roles were reversed? I have my doubts at this point.

Could Barzal go to another team with similar players to the Islanders and have drastically better seasons, both individually and as a team? If he did that I'd agree with you.

I just want more skill players on this team. we lack that. I get lunchpail hockey but it will not get you far anymore.

 

[Osakahaus]

Anyway, he came by the course today and my father said that Cairns and the entire organization know if they didn't have Ilya and Varly they'd be f***ed and he told my father that "Don't worry, the team will find a way".

I did not like that last sentence I'll tell you that much.

They better. The sad part is that we know this can be a good team. This is what they are at their worst. In no way am I saying they're perfect, but the team has to find a way to get better, or heads will roll.

 

[PK Cronin]

I just want more skill players on this team. we lack that. I get lunchpail hockey but it will not get you far anymore.

I think we all would but that's not the same thing as this roster is holding back Barzal.

Barzal is a superstar but he's being held back vs Barzal isn't a superstar and needs more talent to help him out. I think we're pretty decidedly on the latter portion these days when the former was the belief a few years ago.

 

[redbull]

My father works at a Suffolk county golf course that has frequent notable customers, Director of Player Development Eric Cairns is one of them who frequents the joint. My father has become friendly with him and they muck it up when he comes by.

Anyway, he came by the course today and my father said that Cairns and the entire organization know if they didn't have Ilya and Varly they'd be f***ed and he told my father that "Don't worry, the team will find a way".

I did not like that last sentence I'll tell you that much.

Tell your dad to wear a Shayne Corson jersey next time he sees him. Cairns would love that.

 

[redbull]

I think we all would but that's not the same thing as this roster is holding back Barzal.

Barzal is a superstar but he's being held back vs Barzal isn't a superstar and needs more talent to help him out. I think we're pretty decidedly on the latter portion these days when the former was the belief a few years ago.

agree....and there's the nuance that just because you can produce points, doesn't make you a superstar, and the most impactful players (forwards, anyway) aren't always big point producers. There's something to be said about playing in the playoffs, producing in tight games, getting the big goal/assist to win a series/OT/cup or gold medal. Big moments usually follow the best players, often elite players but not always.

Ultimately, this isn't about getting 100pts for Barzal OR having two 35 goal scorers on his wings. He's so extremely unique and gifted with pure talent but his decision-making destroys his ability to reach his potential.

If he's not helping others, isn't the better path to trade him? Especially if his market value may be high, he may yield someone who fits the team/linemates better.

I know much of this is a non-starter, frankly a wasted discussion since trades are impossible to pull-off in-season and Lou shuts it down all summer. I have no clue what Barzal's market value is NOR what I'd want in return.

Scheifele?
JTMiller or Kuzmenko?
Nylander?

What do you think Barzal is on another team, assuming an off-season deal to a team looking for help-up-front/more speed/skill (arguably exactly what the Isles would want/need in return)?

 

[SI]

I wouldn't do any hockey style trades right now if I'm Vancouver. If it ain't broke.... they are going to crush us.

I do have to remind everyone that the Canucks were a tire fire last year and I get that they are flying out of the gate but this is just 15 games- the same goes for Isles - the hope is that their losing streak does not continue and they are able to regulate and then get back on track.

With regards to Van - they are still looking to move Garland who has asked for a trade and they still need someone like Pageau especially after their strong start because there is belief in Vancouver.

 

[SI]

agree....and there's the nuance that just because you can produce points, doesn't make you a superstar, and the most impactful players (forwards, anyway) aren't always big point producers. There's something to be said about playing in the playoffs, producing in tight games, getting the big goal/assist to win a series/OT/cup or gold medal. Big moments usually follow the best players, often elite players but not always.

Ultimately, this isn't about getting 100pts for Barzal OR having two 35 goal scorers on his wings. He's so extremely unique and gifted with pure talent but his decision-making destroys his ability to reach his potential.

If he's not helping others, isn't the better path to trade him? Especially if his market value may be high, he may yield someone who fits the team/linemates better.

I know much of this is a non-starter, frankly a wasted discussion since trades are impossible to pull-off in-season and Lou shuts it down all summer. I have no clue what Barzal's market value is NOR what I'd want in return.

Scheifele?
JTMiller or Kuzmenko?
Nylander?

What do you think Barzal is on another team, assuming an off-season deal to a team looking for help-up-front/more speed/skill (arguably exactly what the Isles would want/need in return)?

Moving Barzal is not an option - especially for someone like Miller who turns 31 this season. Kuzmenko will be a UFA in a season and Schef ain’t going anywhere.

On another note - trading him is crazy - it’s madness.

We all want to see more production but that goes for the entire roster - the team is simply struggling to score across the board. He is shooting more - his speed and puck handling and zone entries are essential to any success.

 

[SI]

The team needs better than Barzal. He has 1 tool, his skating, and no toolbox.

Such a hot take -

Let’s see puck handling, passing, and speed with and without the puck are still considered tools ? Right?
Would love to hear what is in a hockey toolbox?

Barzal is a highly skilled hockey player - his skill is not matching his production.

 

[MJF]

Such a hot take -

Let’s see puck handling, passing, and speed with and without the puck are still considered tools ? Right?
Would love to hear what is in a hockey toolbox?

Barzal is a highly skilled hockey player - his skill is not matching his production.

You're deluding yourself. Barzal forces passes. His one good shot, coming straight in at speed and taking a wrister, he won't use often enough. He seems to like to try to outthink the game instead of playing the game that lies in front of him. You fell in love with the glitz. His skills are best suited for a 3 on 3 league.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

The team needs better than Barzal. He has 1 tool, his skating, and no toolbox.

I know your hatred for hyperbole, he has a lot more than 1 tool.

He just lacks the two most important - hockey IQ and leadership.

 

[MJF]

I know your hatred for hyperbole, he has a lot more than 1 tool.

He just lacks the two most important - hockey IQ and leadership.

Leadership might come if his production matched his alleged skillset.

What do you think Barzal is on another team, assuming an off-season deal to a team looking for help-up-front/more speed/skill (arguably exactly what the Isles would want/need in return)?

A first and a third round pick to help restock the cupboard, and an NHL ready defenseman.

 

[The Real JT]

Leadership might come if his production matched his alleged skillset.


A first and a third round pick to help restock the cupboard, and an NHL ready defenseman.

If that’s the return for Barzal then we’re looking at a total rebuild. Of course that’s not happening until Lou is gone.

I see Barzal’s faults. They’re in full view nearly every night. Still, removing him from the top 6 with no replacement places us undeniably in the lottery. Maybe we’re heading there anyway and it might be the best thing in the long run.

I’ve been on board for a retool since last year’s TDL. Lou’s moves since then have made that nearly impossible. It’s now either blow it up and rebuild or, even worse, go on a little run to become a bubble team and then trade another #1 pick at the TDL.

 

[Throttle]

If that’s the return for Barzal then we’re looking at a total rebuild. Of course that’s not happening until Lou is gone.

I see Barzal’s faults. They’re in full view nearly every night. Still, removing him from the top 6 with no replacement places us undeniably in the lottery. Maybe we’re heading there anyway and it might be the best thing in the long run.

I’ve been on board for a retool since last year’s TDL. Lou’s moves since then have made that nearly impossible. It’s now either blow it up and rebuild or, even worse, go on a little run to become a bubble team and then trade another #1 pick at the TDL.

Not registering here. In the Covid season, he did NOTHING when he was one of the few players to not have Covid, the team floundered with him still in the lineup.

Last season, after Horvat comes aboard, the team plays over .600 hockey without Barzal in the lineup and makes the playoffs. This also after he went 17 games w/o a goal in the beginning of the season.

The Isles are not a good OT team either, an area he should excel at. Same with the SHO, his speed and skating should be an advantage in a 1/1 format too.

He’s not that important to the success of this team. You swap him out to better allocate his $9M towards another player(s) that can contribute more than he can either individually or collectively.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I do have to remind everyone that the Canucks were a tire fire last year and I get that they are flying out of the gate but this is just 15 games- the same goes for Isles - the hope is that their losing streak does not continue and they are able to regulate and then get back on track.

With regards to Van - they are still looking to move Garland who has asked for a trade and they still need someone like Pageau especially after their strong start because there is belief in Vancouver.

Perhaps moving Horvat was the answer

 

[xECK29x]

This thread has really gone places, my goodness the takes

 

[Duanesutter12]

I think we all would but that's not the same thing as this roster is holding back Barzal.

Barzal is a superstar but he's being held back vs Barzal isn't a superstar and needs more talent to help him out. I think we're pretty decidedly on the latter portion these days when the former was the belief a few years ago.

Why is it that this franchise never gets complementing talent for it's high end players? This was the exact same problem with Tavares. Matt Moulson, PA Parenteau, Brad Boyes I could go on and on. He never had a wingman that he deserved. And make no mistake, it's the same thing with Barzal. I know he has his detractors and his game is not perfect but he is a high end talent that literally brought us within sniffing distance of a cup. It's insane to want to trade him!

 

[Osakahaus]

This thread has really gone places, my goodness the takes

Considering Barzal "Alexei Kovalev" is still the worst thing i've read. The amount of trash that we throw to Barzal is sickening.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Why is it that this franchise never gets complementing talent for it's high end players? This was the exact same problem with Tavares. Matt Moulson, PA Parenteau, Brad Boyes I could go on and on. He never had a wingman that he deserved. And make no mistake, it's the same thing with Barzal. I know he has his detractors and his game is not perfect but he is a high end talent that literally brought us within sniffing distance of a cup. It's insane to want to trade him!

I don't know. I saw a thread on Reddit discussing Jack Hughes and I feel like this reply I made sums them up: Jack Hughes looks like he's doing nothing out there, but he's doing everything while Mat Barzal looks like he's doing everything out there when he's actually doing nothing.

I have to agree at this stage in the game if you haven't learned how to take the puck and attack the net with the skill you have...you probably missed the boat to being a high end player. You can't be a 4v4 player when the game is mostly played 5v5. Teams just know to let Barzal play around the perimeter until he forces a terrible pass. He either needs to learn how to cycle the puck or attack the net. What he's doing right now isn't winning games.

 

[redbull]

i think it's an insane thread, and i agree it's crazy to trade him and crazy not to try and trade him.

Truth is, fans know nothing. No idea what the market value is, especially not in the off-season.

If you believe Barzal has way more potential, can he reach the 85pt rookie season and build to a 95, 105pt season, then you keep him. He's gone the other way, had a rough go with Trotz, I'm not sure where he is now.

There's expectations, potential and then reality.
Barzal has the skill to score 100pts or more, no doubt, but he's closer to half that in reality.

Since 2020 he's at the same scoring pace as players like: Nick Schmaltz, Matt Duchene, Kyrou, Verhaeghe, Hertl - not bad, not near a $9MM for 8 yrs though. Very similar to Horvat as well, fewer goals than most in the same pts/g

So it supports what the eyes see. Good player, maybe we hope for more, but enough sample size to see it is what it is. Can these two lead the Islanders to a cup? Highly doubtful.

And that's with a world class goalie and very solid defense group, no really bad contracts on defense as well.

I don't know, it sure looks like mediocrity, maybe wildcard, maybe playoff run if riding a hot goalie and timely scoring. There are zero prospects with elite upside.

That's an honest assessment.

Most in this case would re-tool or re-build/get younger, in some way.

 

[Throttle]

Considering Barzal "Alexei Kovalev" is still the worst thing i've read. The amount of trash that we throw to Barzal is sickening.

Certainly seems like the tide is turning in Islandersland on what you are getting for $9M. He’s the 22nd highest paid forward and he’s not even in the top 100 in scoring.

The consolation prize is he’s statistically better than Johnny Trademark.

 

[SRBisles]

If I’m the isles the second contract talks stall between Vancouver and Pettersson I’m calling and offering Barzal+ without thinking twice. Barzal is an all-star tier player but is flawed, inconsistent, and difficult to play with. Pettersson is all world.

 

[Zeeker]

If I’m the isles the second contract talks stall between Vancouver and Pettersson I’m calling and offering Barzal+ without thinking twice. Barzal is an all-star tier player but is flawed, inconsistent, and difficult to play with. Pettersson is all world.

It really feels like main character syndrome to think this scenario has any chance of playing out

 

[SI]

I would like to remind everyone that it is still very early in the season and there are highs and lows in any season - I am hoping they are able to pull themselves out of this. I have defended Lambert in the past, but I do think if they are not able to pull out of this in the next couple of weeks, then the team may need something NEW. A new voice, a new approach - Lambert is possibly not all that different or fresh of a voice than Barry. IMO, things have not gotten comfortable they have gone stagnant... need some fresh ideas and a new protagonist.