Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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I used to like reading this thread. Now it is just.....someone get out the Vagisil please. This is a decent team, not great, not awful, with some potential to be better. Lou isnt trading anyone off the roster. There. Will. Be. No. Rebuild. If you bother to look at the cap situation, this team is basically locked in for this year and next. See that hill? get over it and hope for the best.
 
I used to like reading this thread. Now it is just.....someone get out the Vagisil please. This is a decent team, not great, not awful, with some potential to be better. Lou isnt trading anyone off the roster. There. Will. Be. No. Rebuild. If you bother to look at the cap situation, this team is basically locked in for this year and next. See that hill? get over it and hope for the best.

I think this is the reality. Unless some desperate playoff team wants to pony up for character at the deadline, it's going to take a couple of years in order for salary and slots to open up.
 
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They would be very stupid to trade Ilya and Barzal. Those two are do not touch.

And if you trade Varlamov then you are trusting Lennox or Skarek. Hell no.
If we're trading to rebuild this season, our goalie does not matter. Whether the fans want to admit it or not, this team is staring down the barrel of a 4-year rebuild; the only issue is whether Lou and ownership have the balls to start it now or continue to prolong the inevitable by trading away picks for mediocre, 30-year-old players. By the time we're ready to contend again, Sorokin will be 33 years old. It's time to trade him and use the assets to speed up this process. Barzal is an overpaid, 2nd line center with negative hockey IQ. He's not that special.
 
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I think this is the reality. Unless some desperate playoff team wants to pony up for character at the deadline, it's going to take a couple of years in order for salary and slots to open up.

If the wheels fall completely off I could see them starting to dump some pieces off if possible. Nelson, Palmieri, Clutterbuck, and Martin should all be shopped. The latter two should be dealt just to recoup anything.
 
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Surely, there's something in between, no? That's not going to fix the problem overnight, but nor will burning the whole f***ing thing to the ground.
I think there's an argument to make for something in the middle, but I don't see it being successful with the amount of money we have tied up in unmovable, long-term contracts that will only get worse. If we want to compete, we're going to have to give up assets to move those deals, and I can't see us being able to afford it. I'd rather go scorched earth now and allow those contracts to expire on their own, or at least get to the point where it won't cost a fortune to move them. Fans don't like rebuilds, and I get it, but it's unfortunately the reality of this shitty NHL CBA where the only way to get ahead is to get lucky in the draft and circumvent the cap with LTIR.
 
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If we're trading to rebuild this season, our goalie does not matter. Whether the fans want to admit it or not, this team is staring down the barrel of a 4-year rebuild; the only issue is whether Lou and ownership have the balls to start it now or continue to prolong the inevitable by trading away picks for mediocre, 30-year-old players. By the time we're ready to contend again, Sorokin will be 33 years old. It's time to trade him and use the assets to speed up this process. Barzal is an overpaid, 2nd line center with negative hockey IQ. He's not that special.
Im not arguing with you anymore. Good day. Barzal is a negative IQ player now? Good lord you're not worth my time.
 
If the wheels fall completely off I could see them starting to dump some pieces off if possible. Nelson, Palmieri, Clutterbuck, and Martin should all be shopped. The latter two should be dealt just to recoup anything.
those are who should be dealt, not players who actually are this teams core.
 
The issue is that the Stars hit very well on their picks. Isles haven't. We really need to get out of some contracts and fast. Get value back. Its why I wouldn't wince at trading Brock at the right value.
And most teams don’t hit well to the extent Dallas has.

Getting out of contracts only works, if you don’t fill up the cap again with a bunch of overpaid junk again.
 
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Im not arguing with you anymore. Good day. Barzal is a negative IQ player now? Good lord you're not worth my time.
Yes, the player who refuses to adapt his game does not have hockey IQ. The book has been out on him for years at this point, and he refuses to make any adjustments.

Defending Barzal has become routine: clog up the middle of the offensive zone and force him to the outside of the ice. As long as you don't make the mistake of over-committing to his position, he will skate around aimlessly on the perimeter of the zone until he turns the puck over.

Barzal should be keeping them honest by using his skating ability to challenge defenders directly and then driving the slot.
 
Yes, the player who refuses to adapt his game does not have hockey IQ. The book has been out on him for years at this point, and he refuses to make any adjustments.

Defending Barzal has become routine: clog up the middle of the offensive zone and force him to the outside of the ice. As long as you don't make the mistake of over-committing to his position, he will skate around aimlessly on the perimeter of the zone until he turns the puck over.

Barzal should be keeping them honest by using his skating ability to challenge defenders directly and then driving the slot.

I don't know how much stock I put into this for Bedard yet but it did remind me of what we don't see Barzal doing in comparison to these other players with similar skillsets. The TL;DR version is that Bedard routinely attacks the center of the ice forcing the defenders to react to him in an effort to create space for others. Barzal on the other hand avoids attacking the center of the ice, goes wide, and then hopes someone else can get open instead of creating the opening.



I hate to break this to you, but none of those players have value besides Nelson.

I'm taking a 7th for Martin or Clutterbuck, that's how low I'm talking.

Casey just gonna keep on digging this hole, eh?


Classic country club mentality. Time for a shakeup

It's a tight knit group and usually that's a good thing. Unfortunately for them the time has come to start disassembling that group because they aren't getting the job done. If it's an us verses them mentality Cizikas has then I'd like to see the whole team come out to defend their coach, instead they played a struggling Oilers team and got whacked again.
 
I don't know how much stock I put into this for Bedard yet but it did remind me of what we don't see Barzal doing in comparison to these other players with similar skillsets. The TL;DR version is that Bedard routinely attacks the center of the ice forcing the defenders to react to him in an effort to create space for others. Barzal on the other hand avoids attacking the center of the ice, goes wide, and then hopes someone else can get open instead of creating the opening.





I'm taking a 7th for Martin or Clutterbuck, that's how low I'm talking.

That's exactly what we need him to be doing. I'm not sure how this has gone on for so long without it being addressed unless Mat is just stubborn and refuses to make any changes. Outside of his obviously natural talent, this is what makes McDavid so dangerous. Jack Hughes has shown this ability as well.

And yes, I'm thinking 7th at most for those players. Nothing that will obviously move the needle outside of opening some cap, but then the question becomes how do you replace them with assets that will actually improve the team?
 
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Heading into Vancouver - there is a hockey trade I pitched up earlier in the offseason -
Pageau for Garland or an extended trade that looks like - Pageau and Wahlstrom for Garland and Podkolzin.

The $ and Term match for Pageau and Garland - JGP gives Vancouver, an excellent 3C who is RH, and kills penalties. Wahlstrom and Podkolzin are both former high 1st rounders, who could use a change of scenery. Podkolzin could spend some time in Bridgeport, which opens a slot for Parise to sign. Garland adds speed, grit, as well as offensive ability. This move allows for Barzal to move back to C -
New Top 9 (in no specific order)
Engvall - Nelson - Palmieri
Lee - Horvat - Garland
Parise - Barzal - Holmstrom
 
If the wheels fall completely off I could see them starting to dump some pieces off if possible. Nelson, Palmieri, Clutterbuck, and Martin should all be shopped. The latter two should be dealt just to recoup anything.
You can see Lou executing a trade off?
 
That's exactly what we need him to be doing. I'm not sure how this has gone on for so long without it being addressed unless Mat is just stubborn and refuses to make any changes. Outside of his obviously natural talent, this is what makes McDavid so dangerous. Jack Hughes has shown this ability as well.

And yes, I'm thinking 7th at most for those players. Nothing that will obviously move the needle outside of opening some cap, but then the question becomes how do you replace them with assets that will actually improve the team?

I don't think you actually replace Martin or Clutterbuck, you just role with Gauthier/Wahlstrom/Fasching/Durandeau for now. I'm not sure how much the composition of the fourth line was by design or serendipitous. The key for the fourth line moving forward is that they need to be able to skate and be cheap.
 
That's exactly what we need him to be doing. I'm not sure how this has gone on for so long without it being addressed unless Mat is just stubborn and refuses to make any changes. Outside of his obviously natural talent, this is what makes McDavid so dangerous. Jack Hughes has shown this ability as well.

And yes, I'm thinking 7th at most for those players. Nothing that will obviously move the needle outside of opening some cap, but then the question becomes how do you replace them with assets that will actually improve the team?
McKinnon didn’t drive to the net in his early years, he was called out for it, then committed to changing how he played, which included driving to the net…and he took off as a player.

And I don’t care if he wakes up on another team, he’s Kovalev 2.0 on the Isles. You don’t and can’t build a team or an offense around a player like that.
 
I used to like reading this thread. Now it is just.....someone get out the Vagisil please. This is a decent team, not great, not awful, with some potential to be better. Lou isnt trading anyone off the roster. There. Will. Be. No. Rebuild. If you bother to look at the cap situation, this team is basically locked in for this year and next. See that hill? get over it and hope for the best.
Yeah, a coaching change, a call up or two at some point, and maybe a minor deal to fill some need. If ownership is unhappy or even just losing some trust they might not sign off on major trades even if Lou wants to make them. It's not impossible that the owners want a rebuild, but that would be surprising if they did. If they're really thinking about ditching Lou over the summer, maybe they don't even sign off on a coaching change (or at least not for a long-term contract for an established guy).
 
A rebuild is impossible with the Isles current contract situation, but gradual demolition of this team should start pretty soon. Trade Martin, Clutter, Palms and Pageau for whatever and get some draft capital. Buy out Lee in the summer and look to trade Cizikas then.

Bring in a new coach and GM at first opportunity.
 
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Whether the fans want to admit it or not, this team is staring down the barrel of a 4-year rebuild
IDK about 4 years if it's a true rebuild. That's pretty fast. Some teams might be able to expedite things, but the Isles aren't a destination franchise that players force trades to or UFAs accept less money to sign with. So unless a new GM gets lucky somehow, it's probably more like 6-8 years.
 
Im not arguing with you anymore. Good day. Barzal is a negative IQ player now? Good lord you're not worth my time
Barzal has a low hockey IQ. Never make him the centerpiece of any rebuild. If he has 1st round pick trade value, make the deal and start restocking the cupboards.

Barzal is Alexei Kovalev without the goals. Another guy who looks great while doing nothing.
 
IDK about 4 years if it's a true rebuild. That's pretty fast. Some teams might be able to expedite things, but the Isles aren't a destination franchise that players force trades to or UFAs accept less money to sign with. So unless a new GM gets lucky somehow, it's probably more like 6-8 years.
It's all dependent on the picks and in what drafts.

If we're drafting #5 overall like in the early 2010s, it might take awhile.

Get two or three top-3 picks and things potentially could turn around quicker.
 
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Barzal has a low hockey IQ. Never make him the centerpiece of any rebuild. If he has 1st round pick trade value, make the deal and start restocking the cupboards.

Barzal is Alexei Kovalev without the goals. Another guy who looks great while doing nothing.
This board has gone so mad that we actively think Barzal is bad despite the entire team being piss poor structurally

Insanity I tell you. This team needs more Barzals, Engvalls, Nelsons and dare I say Dobsons. We need players who drive play and make it hell. The Oilers defense may be a hot sack of trash on a hot summer day yet they can shoot the damn puck. The islanders don't move, don't shoot and don't make it unpredictable on any goalie. They make it easy to plan, easy to stop and easy to extinguish. They have the worst power play for a reason. Even the Sharks can move the puck and they're a glorified AHL team. I need to raise a pitchfork on this team because this philosophy should not be used in 2023. It isn't 2003 Lamoriello.
 
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