Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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I looked in the mirror this morning and asked myself if I'm honestly excited about this upcoming Islanders season.

And I'm not.

I'm excited about hockey, but not about this Islanders team. Just envision it being a very long, hard battle with constant movement around the .500 mark and many uninspiring games, be they wins or losses.

Just feels like the most honest thing I can say as our boys head into their first game tomorrow.
 
I do not think there is or has been a season i was not excited to start. As much as i want to see us win a cup again in my lifetime, i just want to see my team entertain me be that wining, losing, bitching or moaning, lol.. Generally even in the worst of years, and i have been a fan since day 1 though be it a very young one back in the day, they have been entertaining more times than they have not.
 
I'm still relishing in the fact that we FINALLY have a legit, professional team again. Brand new arena, freaking Lou Lamoriello at the helm and a team that should (in fact is EXPECTED TO) make the playoffs. After decades of futility and off-ice shenanigans we can behave like normal fans and bitch about our players.

I love playoff hockey and hope there's a long run this spring. So yes, I'm looking forward to the season. Planning on smoking some wings tomorrow to go with the hot sauce I made last weekend from the garden peppers. LGI
 
I looked in the mirror this morning and asked myself if I'm honestly excited about this upcoming Islanders season.

And I'm not.

I'm excited about hockey, but not about this Islanders team. Just envision it being a very long, hard battle with constant movement around the .500 mark and many uninspiring games, be they wins or losses.

Just feels like the most honest thing I can say as our boys head into their first game tomorrow.
It would be great if the PP were addressed and Lou added an actual NHL defenseman in the Aho spot. Disappointing.

Beyond that, Horvat is the best player this team has acquired in a long time. Our collective size and speed has improved. Our goalie situation is elite. Why not be optimistic?
 
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Cizikas is over 54% at the faceoff dot and is a strong PK when they are closing out games he absolutely should be out there.

Cal is also a very strong Pk and so when you are closing out games - you want guys who can shut things down. I don’t get the criticism on Cal - I think his health is a concern but when healthy he certainly should be out there closing out games

I disagree with you - this is a team that has rolled 4 lines and can - 5on 5 hockey is not the issue - if the team is able to improve on the PP, then you will see a team competing for those top spots in the metro.

The team plays a heavy game - if Martin goes 7-13-20 with 250 hits and is a +2 like he was last season playing 11 minutes a game playing LW 4 and brings all the other intangibles in terms of leadership, muscle, and identity - I’ll take that.
I will also sign up for the same from Cal - if he can replicate last season but playing 15 more games. He was + 9 last year… most lines that are playing 70% def. Zone starts are going to getting buried by shots and are always going to have poor shot metrics.
So you are excusing poor defensive metrics because of the defensive zone starts. There are players out there that have high defensive zone starts that have much better defensive metrics. That's the whole point. 45% xGF is not ok for a line. It needs to at least be closer to 50%. Sorokin is the only reason it's not a complete bloodbath when they're on the ice. Individually they may be good defensively (except Martin). Together, because of their lack of speed and inability to possess the puck, they are terrible.
FYI - if you were to rebuild this 4th line - who are they? How much are you spending? And role or roles are they playing? What is your expectation with regard to production?
If you are choosing a 4th line, they are typically replacement level defensively responsible forwards. Some can provide physicality. But physicality is only beneficial if you can win the penalty differential battle.

These are just some of the UFAs that were available.

Zach Aston Reese - 775k, defensively responsible
Jujar Khaira 775k - defensively responsible, big, can fight, bad penalty differential though
Tyler Motte 800k - decent player who was excellent defensively 2 years ago, and draws a ton of penalties
Pius Suter 1.6m - Great defensively, definitely an upgrade over Cizikas. Can also score
Tomas Nosek 1m - Decent player, responsible defensively

This is just some of the players that could make up a cheaper and a more effective 4th line. Say we sign Suter and two of those wingers, that would be a total of 3.2 mil. We are currently spending 5.75. That's over 2.5 in savings with better or at worst, equal results. Not insignificant. The rest of the league is going away from paying 4th liners. The rest of the league is also emphasizing more offense and speed. But in true Lou fashion, when everyone else is zigging, he zags.
 
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So you are excusing poor defensive metrics because of the defensive zone starts. There are players out there that have high defensive zone starts that have much better defensive metrics. That's the whole point. 45% xGF is not ok for a line. It needs to at least be closer to 50%. Sorokin is the only reason it's not a complete bloodbath when they're on the ice. Individually they may be good defensively (except Martin). Together, because of their lack of speed and inability to possess the puck, they are terrible.

If you are choosing a 4th line, they are typically replacement level defensively responsible forwards. Some can provide physicality. But physicality is only beneficial if you can win the penalty differential battle.

These are just some of the UFAs that were available.

Zach Aston Reese - 775k, defensively responsible
Jujar Khaira 775k - defensively responsible, big, can fight, bad penalty differential though
Tyler Motte 800k - decent player who was excellent defensively 2 years ago, and draws a ton of penalties
Pius Suter 1.6m - Great defensively, definitely an upgrade over Cizikas. Can also score
Tomas Nosek 1m - Decent player, responsible defensively

This is just some of the players that could make up a cheaper and a more effective 4th line. Say we sign Suter and two of those wingers, that would be a total of 3.2 mil. We are currently spending 5.75. That's over 2.5 in savings with better or at worst, equal results. Not insignificant. The rest of the league is going away from paying 4th liners. The rest of the league is also emphasizing more offense and speed. But in true Lou fashion, when everyone else is zigging, he zags.
There's not a GM in the league who would trade Czikas for any two or three of the players you mentioned.
 
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Concerns over Clutter's health are valid

Concerns over Martin's speed is valid

Why are we concerned about Casey? Dude is a beast - logs tough minutes, fantastic PKer, tone setter, + 50% FOW at the dot, played 81 games last year...
Do we just not like that his contract is long? Has nothing to do with this season.
Cuz we need to get younger and faster.
 
Unless my memory is failing me, Casey is plenty fast and still damn near the best 4C in the league at 32yo.

On the decline? For sure. But I see no reason that he is a target to jettison off this team.
I'm being facetious. I love Cizikas. Just poking fun at the latest mantra around here (which, don't get me wrong, does have some validity).
 
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Two observations about this lineup.

1. Lambert is forcing Holmstrom into a hole he doesn’t fit into.

2. Hudson Fasching is a nice story and all but I don’t think he is anything more than a spare forward. I’d rather have Gauthier playing ahead of him.

I’d rather see Gauthier with ‘Borat’ and Holmstrom start in the Bridge to get some offensive confidence.

Put personally I think Lambert is junk so I’m not surprised.
 
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Two observations about this lineup.

1. Lambert is forcing Holmstrom into a hole he doesn’t fit into.

2. Hudson Fasching is a nice story and all but I don’t think he is anything more than a spare forward. I’d rather have Gauthier playing ahead of him.

1. Probably. I think there will be a revolving door in that slot until someone clicks with Mat and Bo.

2. Gauthier will get his chance. Lambert trusts Fasching more at this point. Don't have a major issue with this.
 
Concerns over Clutter's health are valid

Concerns over Martin's speed is valid

Why are we concerned about Casey? Dude is a beast - logs tough minutes, fantastic PKer, tone setter, + 50% FOW at the dot, played 81 games last year...
Do we just not like that his contract is long? Has nothing to do with this season.
I have no idea what the beef is with Cizikas. My guess is he's guilty by association with Martin and Clutterbuck. If he was on another team, his current critics would be shouting he's exactly the type of vet Lou should bring in to center a 4th line and PK.
 
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I have no idea what the beef is with Cizikas. My guess is he's guilty by association with Martin and Clutterbuck. If he was on another team, his current critics would be shouting he's exactly the type of vet Lou should bring in to center a 4th line and PK.
Look at his PIMS the last few years.
 
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So you are excusing poor defensive metrics because of the defensive zone starts. There are players out there that have high defensive zone starts that have much better defensive metrics. That's the whole point. 45% xGF is not ok for a line. It needs to at least be closer to 50%. Sorokin is the only reason it's not a complete bloodbath when they're on the ice. Individually they may be good defensively (except Martin). Together, because of their lack of speed and inability to possess the puck, they are terrible.

If you are choosing a 4th line, they are typically replacement level defensively responsible forwards. Some can provide physicality. But physicality is only beneficial if you can win the penalty differential battle.

These are just some of the UFAs that were available.

Zach Aston Reese - 775k, defensively responsible
Jujar Khaira 775k - defensively responsible, big, can fight, bad penalty differential though
Tyler Motte 800k - decent player who was excellent defensively 2 years ago, and draws a ton of penalties
Pius Suter 1.6m - Great defensively, definitely an upgrade over Cizikas. Can also score
Tomas Nosek 1m - Decent player, responsible defensively

This is just some of the players that could make up a cheaper and a more effective 4th line. Say we sign Suter and two of those wingers, that would be a total of 3.2 mil. We are currently spending 5.75. That's over 2.5 in savings with better or at worst, equal results. Not insignificant. The rest of the league is going away from paying 4th liners. The rest of the league is also emphasizing more offense and speed. But in true Lou fashion, when everyone else is zigging, he zags.
I think you put too much stock in publicly available advanced stats. It’s continuously reported that organizations have their own metrics AND guard it like corporate secrets.

There’s a reason those journey men players you referenced remain journey men. And it’s not that the old establishment hasn’t caught on to underlying value seen through widely available advanced stats.
 
I have no idea what the beef is with Cizikas. My guess is he's guilty by association with Martin and Clutterbuck. If he was on another team, his current critics would be shouting he's exactly the type of vet Lou should bring in to center a 4th line and PK.
That, and it’s a bit of him being on one team for so long. Bit of fan boredom sets in… and one starts to nitpick their flaws to overblown status.
 
So you are excusing poor defensive metrics because of the defensive zone starts. There are players out there that have high defensive zone starts that have much better defensive metrics. That's the whole point. 45% xGF is not ok for a line. It needs to at least be closer to 50%. Sorokin is the only reason it's not a complete bloodbath when they're on the ice. Individually they may be good defensively (except Martin). Together, because of their lack of speed and inability to possess the puck, they are terrible.

If you are choosing a 4th line, they are typically replacement level defensively responsible forwards. Some can provide physicality. But physicality is only beneficial if you can win the penalty differential battle.

These are just some of the UFAs that were available.

Zach Aston Reese - 775k, defensively responsible
Jujar Khaira 775k - defensively responsible, big, can fight, bad penalty differential though
Tyler Motte 800k - decent player who was excellent defensively 2 years ago, and draws a ton of penalties
Pius Suter 1.6m - Great defensively, definitely an upgrade over Cizikas. Can also score
Tomas Nosek 1m - Decent player, responsible defensively

This is just some of the players that could make up a cheaper and a more effective 4th line. Say we sign Suter and two of those wingers, that would be a total of 3.2 mil. We are currently spending 5.75. That's over 2.5 in savings with better or at worst, equal results. Not insignificant. The rest of the league is going away from paying 4th liners. The rest of the league is also emphasizing more offense and speed. But in true Lou fashion, when everyone else is zigging, he zags.
Yes, that is exactly what I’m saying. I doubt you find anyone who excels that high who has high def. Zone starts especially bottom 6 guys

All of those players suck. Have you a watched these players? Or did a comparison between the identity line and these players?Khaira is absolute garbage and yes he is big and can throw down but usually gets pummeled - rather have Martin and Cal playing hard and heavy than this puff ball skating around the ice with his head down.

ZAR and Motte are journeyman types that can’t stick with a team. And only ZAR can kills penalties. Motte is a spark plug but not at all the solution - just save a few sheckles?

Suter is a 3C - not a very good one - and signed a 1 year because of the cap crunch. Pius Suter is below 50% at the faceoff dot and took less than 500 faceoffs to Casey’s 1000.

All those players you mentioned have below .45. You mentioned Nosek who had an outrageous 91% def zone start for the Bruins last season CF % 38%.
 
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