Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[WangMustGo]

I really dont think this trade is going to workout for Pittsburgh. Sure they gained more top end talent, but they lost a lot of depth as well. The top guys are all well over 30, and injury prone. They missed the playoffs last season with Crosby and Malkin playing every game. That likely wont happen again.

As for the isles I think they are likely 3rd-4th in the division, if the PP clicks and everything breaks right maybe even better. I think Lou did a decent job of addressing the lack of speed offensively by adding Engvall and Gauthier (assuming he is the 13th forward) and there is a good amount of depth up front. They need to play Trotz style hockey for all 82 games, not just the last 30.

 

[Osakahaus]

So I mised a couple of days here and I would like to add my two cents to the reality of our two ECF runs and how it was not mostly Snow that we should be thanking.

Lou ACTUALLY added the following to this team that contributed to the ECF runs.

Trotz and Lambert
Lee - signed as a UFA (Instantly became Captain)
Nelson - signed as a UFA (was a soft winger until Trotz ot hold of him)
Eberle - signed as a UFA
Sorokin - our property but SIGNED by lou.
Varlamov (probably helped sway Sorokin (and a shout out to the Rangers even though I hate it as they brought over Shesterkin who Sorokin is very close to and competitive with)
Lehner
JG Pageau
Komarov (really pushed Beau to be better. Beau wasn't the same after Komarov left)
Matt Martin - breathed new life into the "Identity" line
Brassard (brought in a ton of playoff experience)
Andy Greene
Wahlstrom
Dobson
Kuhnhackl - did not do much but what he did do was clutch
Hickey - signed as UFA
Palmieri
Zajac

I did not add in RFA signings or promotions from the AHL.

Yes, offering Trotz and Lambert contracts may have been a no brainer but it was still done bu Lou and accepted by Trotz and Lambert.

You could argue that some of these are Snow's original picks but, the fact of the matter is that Lou signed the UFAs and there was no guarantee that Snow would have.

You could also argue that Snow would have offered Pajama Boy the moon and the stars and let the UFAs walk and crippled us with a huge contract.

Snow didn't do much good either way because he had some stinker drafts. Lamoriello isn't much better but we're seeing some guys look solid at the very least (Namely Dufour, Holmstrom, George and Bolduc)

 

[MJF]

You don't see how your posts are sort of just playing both sides of the coin?

"This team should rebuild."
"This is a fringe playoff team."
"This is a first round exit team."

Damn you're right either way this season goes down.

This team SHOULD rebuild. This team IS a fringe playoff team. This team WAS a first round exit.

What side of the fence was I playing? Was I not optimistic enough? Do I have to speak in more absolutes? The Islanders aren’t that good of a team. They weren’t last year and they’re not now.

 

[YearlyLottery]

This team SHOULD rebuild. This team IS a fringe playoff team. This team WAS a first round exit.

What side of the fence was I playing? Was I not optimistic enough? Do I have to speak in more absolutes? The Islanders aren’t that good of a team. They weren’t last year and they’re not now.

You can speak however you want. I just don't think we can sit here and say after a trade that this team is automatically worse than Pittsburgh. You do though. Not sure a conversation changes either of our opinions.

 

[SRBisles]

Meh, I don’t think this trade will affect the standings much at all.

 

[Throttle]

I really dont think this trade is going to workout for Pittsburgh. Sure they gained more top end talent, but they lost a lot of depth as well. The top guys are all well over 30, and injury prone. They missed the playoffs last season with Crosby and Malkin playing every game. That likely wont happen again.

As for the isles I think they are likely 3rd-4th in the division, if the PP clicks and everything breaks right maybe even better. I think Lou did a decent job of addressing the lack of speed offensively by adding Engvall and Gauthier (assuming he is the 13th forward) and there is a good amount of depth up front. They need to play Trotz style hockey for all 82 games, not just the last 30.

They lost to Chicago in what could be argued was a play in game vs an inferior opponent. Running back the same core…Karsslon didn’t do any magic to advance the cause in SJ either…

 

[SI]

Great deal for Pens - I dunno how they get under cap when Guentzel returns in December - well, Dubas has dealt with this type of thing before. Gave up 2024 1st - weak draft and rid themselves of 2 years of Rutta @2.75 and 2 years of Granlund @5 as well as saving over 4.5 for the next 2 years of Petry and they get Karlsson.

They gave up their back up - new back up is a tire fire… not sure how much better this makes the Pens but they are part of the conversation in the metro.

Montreal - eh - they’ll eat some $ and move Petry for another 2nd orherwise they created room for their youngsters.

Sharks - atrocious! They take back $ for the next 2 seasons - would you rather have Karlsson at 11.5 or Rutta, Granlund, and Hoffman for 12.25 and the gain is a 2024 1st?

At that point you hold onto Karlsson and wait for the Deadline or next off-season when the cap goes up and teams lose more $ off the books. For Grier’s 1st big move - not a good one especially when he insisted on 2 1sts

 

[Throttle]

Grier’s first big move was Meier to the Devils.

 

[Osakahaus]

This team SHOULD rebuild. This team IS a fringe playoff team. This team WAS a first round exit.

What side of the fence was I playing? Was I not optimistic enough? Do I have to speak in more absolutes? The Islanders aren’t that good of a team. They weren’t last year and they’re not now.

This team also played like TRASH against the canes and they still have their pieces. You have sorokin for all those years: PUSH FOR THAT DAMN CUP

 

[PJGooch]

It's amazingly on-brand for this board that the doomsdayers clutch their pearls over the old, decrepit Penguins trading for Karlsson, while the same team losing its best non-geriatric scorer for probably a third of the season doesn't even make a ripple.

 

[Osakahaus]

It's amazingly on-brand for this board that the doomsdayers clutch their pearls over the old, decrepit Penguins trading for Karlsson, while the same team losing its best non-geriatric scorer for probably a third of the season doesn't even make a ripple.

Too many people here forget how Horvat CARRIED this team while shooing far below his shooting %, while Barzal was out, along with the bottom 6 being terrible. No Barzy, no Palmieri, no Pelech, and no Romanov at times just hurt this team. This is still a very good team.

 

[Throttle]

PIT was the oldest team last year and will be there this year. When you still have Crosby and are around the playoff area, then you go for it in his last remaining seasons. I respect that. Now, having ‘no clue how to build a team Dubas’ doing executing all this is where I 100% deviate from it. He’s made unforced player personnel error after error. Sadly, for Syd, it’s most likely over for his Cup winning ways.

Contrast that with WAS, where it’s all about Ovi’s record as being relevant. McClellan eliminates any coach that had credibility and leverage. He’s going on his 2nd rookie coach…WAS is toast for the Cup too. It’s just milking the record.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Dumba goes to the Coyotes. Meh. I think if the Coyotes suck, then we trade for him and see if he's a fit. We also should focus on San Jose and start looking at Radek Simek. We need to get better defensemen btw at the deadline should Aho/Salo/Bolduc look shitty.

This is where I would’ve rather cut bait with Martin and Clutter to make space for Dumba’s $3.9mm for this one year.

We’re trying to compete for the Cup in 23-24 and needed an offensive Dman.

 

[Osakahaus]

This is where I would’ve rather cut bait with Martin and Clutter to make space for Dumba’s $3.9mm for this one year.

We’re trying to compete for the Cup in 23-24 and needed an offensive Dman.

And I will counter by saying that Dumba isn't that good and I would rather start eyeballing the Sharks because of their crap nature.

 

[IslesNorway]

The Karlsson trade just showed the awful value in good players on horrible long contracts. The Sharks just got scraps for one of the greats of the last 20 years.

So happy the Islanders haven't got any of those

 

[Throttle]

Too many people here forget how Horvat CARRIED this team while shooing far below his shooting %, while Barzal was out, along with the bottom 6 being terrible. No Barzy, no Palmieri, no Pelech, and no Romanov at times just hurt this team. This is still a very good team.

Isles fans so far are not really into Horvat. It’s kinda obvious.

Horvat will be judged by this fanbase solely on whether he can turn the pumpkin into a carriage or not.

 

[The Real JT]

Not necessarily true - Sorokin said he would never sign here due to Snow - Lou has everything to do with why Sorokin signed. Also, Pageau and Palmieri were huge parts of those runs and both were Lou trade acquisitions. Not to mention that Nelson and Lee were resigned by Lou.

Palmieri and Pageau were solid contributors to teams that made the final 4 of two Cup runs. Not the final 2 and not the final 1. I give them credit for their contributions but they and the team fell short so let’s not have a parade for what they did to fall short 2+ years ago.

Meanwhile they are both now less capable and less valuable while they have transitioned to being overpaid at this point in their careers.

Sorry for the reality check.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

And I will counter by saying that Dumba isn't that good and I would rather start eyeballing the Sharks because of their crap nature.

It’s going to cost more than money at that point to acquire him at the TDL though?

Is Dumba better and more reliable than Aho / Bolduc? Probably. I’d rather have him for the first half in a competing season.

You sign a few bottom sixers for super cheap, but aren’t moving from the higher cost bottom sixers while also having an offensive Dman hole.

This is where I am confused with Lou’s approach. I had thought for sure that the Fasching, Gauthier, Kuhlman signing were an attempt to open up some money elsewhere for a Dman.

 

[Seph]

I really dont think this trade is going to workout for Pittsburgh. Sure they gained more top end talent, but they lost a lot of depth as well. The top guys are all well over 30, and injury prone. They missed the playoffs last season with Crosby and Malkin playing every game. That likely wont happen again.

As for the isles I think they are likely 3rd-4th in the division, if the PP clicks and everything breaks right maybe even better. I think Lou did a decent job of addressing the lack of speed offensively by adding Engvall and Gauthier (assuming he is the 13th forward) and there is a good amount of depth up front. They need to play Trotz style hockey for all 82 games, not just the last 30.

I have my doubts as well. Karlsson was fantastic last season, but seems to me the kind of player that only excels when he can have the puck on his stick a lot and is the go to offensive guy, which will be less the case playing with Sid and Geno. And hes never been a defensive ace, which will likely exacerbate the issues of Jarry having been re-signed as their starting goalie. Tying up 10m in AAV for the next 4 years on Karlsson could just hasten the Penguins's decline.

But they will certainly have a scary PP with those 3 together.

 

[SI]

Palmieri and Pageau were solid contributors to teams that made the final 4 of two Cup runs. Not the final 2 and not the final 1. I give them credit for their contributions but they and the team fell short so let’s not have a parade for what they did to fall short 2+ years ago.

Meanwhile they are both now less capable and less valuable while they have transitioned to being overpaid at this point in their careers.

Sorry for the reality check.

Wtf are you blabbering about?!

I am responding to a post about what Lou contributed to the ECF runs with what OP was stating that Lou rode on a roster that Snow built.

No one is giving them a parade - just a fact that those two played big roles in those runs.

And your comment about less valuable? Or less capable? Valuable how? Market? Or to the team? because JGP is a very valuable member of this team at 17+ minutes - playing in all situations, over 55% in faceoffs with over 1200 puck drops and still had 40 points as a 3C is someone who shows value and capability.

Reality check mate

 

[SI]

I have my doubts as well. Karlsson was fantastic last season, but seems to me the kind of player that only excels when he can have the puck on his stick a lot and is the go to offensive guy, which will be less the case playing with Sid and Geno. And hes never been a defensive ace, which will likely exacerbate the issues of Jarry having been re-signed as their starting goalie. Tying up 10m in AAV for the next 4 years on Karlsson could just hasten the Penguins's decline.

But they will certainly have a scary PP with those 3 together.

i agree - I don’t know how much this will do for the Pens since goaltending and problems on the blue line will certainly be an issue.

But, this deal was a fantastic move by Dubas.
Not sure what a 2024 1st and 2025 2nd is going to do for Syd. Petry and his 2 years almost all gone, Granlund and his 2 years, and Rutta and his 2 years off the books totally.

Dubas also gets a 3rd rounder and depth F who does well on the forecheck in Pitlick. He couldn’t have landed a better piece for Syd.

 

[Top Corner]

Too many people here forget how Horvat CARRIED this team while shooing far below his shooting %, while Barzal was out, along with the bottom 6 being terrible. No Barzy, no Palmieri, no Pelech, and no Romanov at times just hurt this team. This is still a very good team.

Yes a good team but have no resources to make it a great team. All we have is a first round pick each year to add another good player but no plan or time line to be a great team. I get it though , Lou is not at an age where he can afford to make the kind of moves needed. Right now he’s throwing darts hoping to hit the bullseye before time runs out.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Too many people here forget how Horvat CARRIED this team while shooing far below his shooting %, while Barzal was out, along with the bottom 6 being terrible. No Barzy, no Palmieri, no Pelech, and no Romanov at times just hurt this team. This is still a very good team.

Felt more like Neslon, Engvall, Palms and Sorokin carried the team while Barzal was injured.

 

[iggy]

Felt more like Neslon, Engvall, Palms and Sorokin carried the team while Barzal was injured.

Bingo

 

[doublechili]

I see consistent 30g, 70 pt seasons.

I'm not trashing Terry because I haven't really watched him - and maybe what you are seeing is a legit scorer about to break out. But to me there is an element of speculation in signing him to a 7 x $7M contract based on his actual production in the NCAA (one big goal-scoring season then a step back) and the NHL (same thing). People compared his contract favorably to Barzal's, and I'm just saying at the time both were signed they were a bit of a dice roll.