Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[MJF]

They lost to Chicago in what could be argued was a play in game vs an inferior opponent. Running back the same core…Karsslon didn’t do any magic to advance the cause in SJ either…

Karlsson doesn’t have to carry the Penguins on his back. He just has to make them marginally better than they were last year.

 

[doublechili]

What gets to me is that people put up embarrassing billboards to roast Snow while they are ready to put up a shrine for Lou who has done nothing for this franchise but set it back.

Really? What are there, two possibilities: agree with you; or you're ready to put up a shrine for Lou?

 

[The Real JT]

Wtf are you blabbering about?!

I am responding to a post about what Lou contributed to the ECF runs with what OP was stating that Lou rode on a roster that Snow built.

No one is giving them a parade - just a fact that those two played big roles in those runs.

And your comment about less valuable? Or less capable? Valuable how? Market? Or to the team? because JGP is a very valuable member of this team at 17+ minutes - playing in all situations, over 55% in faceoffs with over 1200 puck drops and still had 40 points as a 3C is someone who shows value and capability.

Reality check mate

Just an observation.

There’s a clear divide between the still optimistic vs the glass half empty crowd.

One thing I’ve noticed is that the angry, vitriolic posts consistently come from the optimistic crowd.

Why so mad bro?

 

[PK Cronin]

Karlsson doesn’t have to carry the Penguins on his back. He just has to make them marginally better than they were last year.

We'll see how it goes. On paper they're a bit better but they're the type of team that can have the wheels fall off quickly if something goes wrong. I don't ever count them out because of Crosby but man are they walking a fine line right now.

Crosby is 35, Letang is 36, and Malkin is 37. They have exactly three forwards under 30 years old. Their goaltending is just as bad as last year. Did their defense get better or even stay the same? They could just as easily miss the playoffs, by a lot, as they can grab a top three spot in the division.

 

[WangMustGo]

Karlsson doesn’t have to carry the Penguins on his back. He just has to make them marginally better than they were last year.

But how does losing all that depth effect them? Does Sid, Malkin, and Karlsson all manage to play 82 games again? I really dont think this trade makes the Penguins much better. Guentzel is already out for the first couple months of the season. I think this trade has a lot of potential to blow up on Pitt.

 

[Osakahaus]

Yes a good team but have no resources to make it a great team. All we have is a first round pick each year to add another good player but no plan or time line to be a great team. I get it though , Lou is not at an age where he can afford to make the kind of moves needed. Right now he’s throwing darts hoping to hit the bullseye before time runs out.

Then lets keep throwing them until we win that damn cup again

 

[doublechili]

The Karlsson deal is fascinating. Great player with a $10M cap hit thru 37 years of age and some injury history, so definitely some risk there. And they have Letang as another RHD, and on a 35+ contract at $6.1M thru 40 years of age. I'm saying "dice-rolling" a lot. But you know what, with Crosby and Malkin at 35 and 37 Dubas probably figures it's worth the gamble. And they'll sell tickets, so ownership will be happy. Probably a good fit. I just wonder what they'll do on the PP? Play Karlsson and Letang together as 2 RH shots on the point, or split them up (and Sid/Malkin) and have 2 dangerous units?

 

[Osakahaus]

Felt more like Neslon, Engvall, Palms and Sorokin carried the team while Barzal was injured.

That too

but ignoring what Bo did is ignorant. The team got the absolute most out of Engvall btw. THAT'S why he is still here.

 

[WangMustGo]

Really? What are there, two possibilities: agree with you; or you're ready to put up a shrine for Lou?

12 seasons of Snow as GM and 1 playoff series victory in that time. While managing to botch several top 5 picks. The organization was being run by a clown.

 

[Osakahaus]

12 seasons of Snow as GM and 1 playoff series victory in that time. While managing to botch several top 5 picks. The organization was being run by a clown.

Lamoriello also brought something that we haven't had in ages

RESPECT

 

[gordie43]

Karlsson doesn’t have to carry the Penguins on his back. He just has to make them marginally better than they were last year.

I believe 82 games of horvat makes the isles marginally better. By my math that should keep isles above pens.

 

[Osakahaus]

I believe 82 games of horvat makes the isles marginally better. By my math that should keep isles above pens.

And Pelech
And Barzal
And Palmieri

 

[periferal]

Some people like taking shots at Dubas/the Pens while totally missing the big picture...

When you have a 36 year old Crosby, 37 year old Malkin, and 36 year old Letang...You need to either go all in every year, or trade those guys and rebuild. They chose the former and did exactly what you should do - Do whatever it takes to add an elite talent...A true puck-moving defenseman who will be in the Hall of Fame one day.

Do I think they'll win a Cup next season? Probably not. But did they do exactly what they should do with that roster if they're not going to rebuild? Absolutely.

The Pens just used a 1st/2nd round picks to trade for a Norris Winner. Our GM uses them to add middle-6 talent (or worse).

Today add the Penguins to the other Eastern Conference teams that are better since last season ended. Sadly, and more annoyingly, the Islanders are not one of them.

 

[Throttle]

Some people like taking shots at Dubas/the Pens while totally missing the big picture...

When you have a 36 year old Crosby, 37 year old Malkin, and 36 year old Letang...You need to either go all in every year, or trade those guys and rebuild. They chose the former and did exactly what you should do - Do whatever it takes to add an elite talent...A true puck-moving defenseman who will be in the Hall of Fame one day.

Do I think they'll win a Cup next season? Probably not. But did they do exactly what they should do with that roster if they're not going to rebuild? Absolutely.

The Pens just used a 1st/2nd round picks to trade for a Norris Winner. Our GM uses them to add middle-6 talent (or worse).

Today add the Penguins to the other Eastern Conference teams that are better since last season ended. Sadly, and more annoyingly, the Islanders are not one of them.

Since winning back to back Cups 16/17, when Despacito was a thing…they have won one playoff round in six consecutive years, or five since they missed last year. 3 GMs later…Dumbo is doing his best service of poorly executing on a solid core he was handed.

Should PIT go for it? Sure, but Lou has six playoff round victories w/o any franchise players in his five seasons.

 

[Throttle]

Karlsson doesn’t have to carry the Penguins on his back. He just has to make them marginally better than they were last year.

The Penguins are a mess structurally and Karlsson doesn’t help that. Unless their old dogs are playing 30 mins a night, the rest of the team is bad and it’s what causes PIT to be an erratic team that can dominate one, then get dominated another over 82 games.

 

[SI]

But how does losing all that depth effect them? Does Sid, Malkin, and Karlsson all manage to play 82 games again? I really dont think this trade makes the Penguins much better. Guentzel is already out for the first couple months of the season. I think this trade has a lot of potential to blow up on Pitt.

I’m not sure the depth has been sacrificed, except in G with DeSmith gone. Even with Guentzel out - they still have a formidable top 6.
R. Smith - Syd- Rust
Nieto - Malkin - Rackell
O’Connor -Carter - Hinostroza/Nylander
Pitlick - Eller - Acciari

With Guentzel starting the year on LTIR they could probably sign a Tatar or Comtois for cheap.

Pitt still has issues and everyone needs to stay healthy - their age is against them but you cannot count them out of the Metro conversation.

 

[Seph]

i agree - I don’t know how much this will do for the Pens since goaltending and problems on the blue line will certainly be an issue.

But, this deal was a fantastic move by Dubas.
Not sure what a 2024 1st and 2025 2nd is going to do for Syd. Petry and his 2 years almost all gone, Granlund and his 2 years, and Rutta and his 2 years off the books totally.

Dubas also gets a 3rd rounder and depth F who does well on the forecheck in Pitlick. He couldn’t have landed a better piece for Syd.

I do agree with the overall notion of continuing to go for it while you still have Sid and Geno playing at over a pt/g, so I'm not critical of the assets they gave up. And while there may not have been a better single piece for them this summer, I do think there's a good chance that the returns on Karlsson won't justify the 10m caphit for a team that already has a pair of offensive aces. Karlsson just seems to be the kind of player that thrives when he is the defacto top offensive weapon on a team, and he won't be that with the Penguins. Also, they still have Letang for another 4 years at 6.1m, and while he is already on the decline, his point totals will probably drop much faster with Karlsson taking his PP spot, which would make it much harder to move him.

Personally would wager that putting that capspace (and assets, I suppose) towards improving forward depth and defensive capability on their blueline would make them a bigger threat, as I feel that's been a much bigger weakness than offense from the blueline. Or putting those assets towards trading for Hellebuyck, and the capspace on an extension, if he really was available for the right deal. I do definitely agree that clearing out those bad contracts was impressive.

At the same time, he is an impressive enough offensive talent that it could transform their offense to the point that the caphit is justified and it turns out to be a great move. I don't think it's the most likely scenario, but he does have the skill that I can't disregard it entirely as a possibility.

 

[JPIsles18]

Didn’t take long for Dubas to start flipping ‘assets’ into oblivion as part of his amazing spreadsheet winning strategy.

I thought this guy was so deft at drafting, developing, and diamonds in the rough. He keeps trading away picks to questionable veterans… He’s Scott Howson 2.0.

He just traded a bunch of really bad contracts for a bad contract. But in the deal he got, by far, the best player in the trade, and a Norris trophy winner. That same player is also arguably the best offensive dman in the league. Please don't forget that it would've likely cost 2nd round pick sweetener to get rid of Granlund.

With EK coming off a Norris type season, this makes the Pens far more dangerous and better next year (at least offensively). However, losing Guentzel hurts a ton.

The Pens will be much better with Dubas at the helm. Between this deal and the Meier deal, Grier is not showing well at all.

 

[JPIsles18]

Palmieri and Pageau were solid contributors to teams that made the final 4 of two Cup runs. Not the final 2 and not the final 1. I give them credit for their contributions but they and the team fell short so let’s not have a parade for what they did to fall short 2+ years ago.

Meanwhile they are both now less capable and less valuable while they have transitioned to being overpaid at this point in their careers.

Sorry for the reality check.

This is an un-winnable argument amongst the faction of fans that have an unreasonable love towards middle 9 forwards on bloated contracts. The same fans will then tell you Ivan Barbashev is overpaid because he only got hot in the playoffs, only because he's not an Islander. The league is littered with Fernando Pisani types that have a hot playoff run and get overpaid (we actually overpaid JGP before his magical run that didn't end in a SC win, but I digress).

Value be damned in Islander country. We will forever hold on to almost winning a SC. It's been so long that we've won anything, that almost winning something excuses all of Lou's missteps.

 

[MarsTBOW]

The Penguins are a mess structurally and Karlsson doesn’t help that. Unless their old dogs are playing 30 mins a night, the rest of the team is bad and it’s what causes PIT to be an erratic team that can dominate one, then get dominated another over 82 games.

Yes their Defense will be more Leaky than ever with this Trade. They are another year older and Karlsson is much weaker defensively than most people think. They will miss Jan Rutta. Also as long as Jarry is in their Nets, I have little fear of them.

 

[saintunspecified]

At the same time, he is an impressive enough offensive talent that it could transform their offense to the point that the caphit is justified and it turns out to be a great move. I don't think it's the most likely scenario, but he does have the skill that I can't disregard it entirely as a possibility.

I think the move reiterates how Dubas sees the goaltending market. I think it's something like - it's not worth spending assets (cap or in-control players) for any goalies except for elite goalies. Learned that the hard way. There's two elite goalies that are potentially available in trades in Saros, and Hellebuyck. (It's also possible they are NOT actually available at all.) At any rate, it's become clear that IF either are traded it will be for far more than the Penguins could pay.

It'll be interesting to see how Karlsson meshes with that team. In particular I'm interested to see whether Sullivan can improve Karlsson's defensive game in the way he transformed Justin Schultz's. Not that Schultz became a defensive stalwart, but he was truly awful when he arrived from Edmonton, and he became good enough defensively to allow his puck moving to become a positive.

 

[danteipp]

So far, Grier is looking like an awful GM. They better hope he can draft, because it doesn't look like he can trade. And Jarry and Ned are the Penguins current goalies. That is putrid, barring a BIG bounce back. I am very interested to see how they hold up, especially Jarry, who has even less of a safety net than usual.

 

[Osakahaus]

So far, Grier is looking like an awful GM. They better hope he can draft, because it doesn't look like he can trade. And Jarry and Ned are the Penguins current goalies. That is putrid, barring a BIG bounce back. I am very interested to see how they hold up, especially Jarry, who has even less of a safety net than usual.

Grier is so bad, that I think he hasn't won a single trade

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Most of those rosters that had deeper playoff runs were Snow's teams.

My god. Thanks for posting this in the first sentence as I was able to skip the rest...

 

[danteipp]

Grier is so bad, that I think he hasn't won a single trade

Karlsson I can understand a bit, since the options were limited, but that Meier trade looks putrid. He settled for a bag of magic beans vs. getting at least one stud prospect back.