Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[doublechili]

I disagree. I think Pageau plus say a protected 2024 first may get it done. Would give Ottawa some capspace, improves their PK and faceoffs. It also gives them extra capspace to work with. I dont think a ton of teams will be in on DeBrincat. He is going to command a lot of money and will pretty much have his say of where he wants to go.

FWIW, here's a blurb from TSN about Debrincat:

"While in Ottawa on this day, the Senators elected for salary arbitration with Alex DeBrincat, but how that should be interpreted is basically they set the window for when they have to trade him. Any salary arbitration case comes with a one-year contract awarded and there's an understanding here that DeBrincat is most valuable as an asset if he gets a multi-year deal. And so that means they're going to have to deal him by the end of July or early August when the arbitration hearings happen. I believe they're going to put a push on here to get that deal done much, much sooner by the draft this month. There's said to be very strong interest from the smallest of teams DeBrincat and his camp provided. And right now for the Senators, it's working through those conversations and finding the best return."

Insider Trading: Will the Sharks part ways with Karlsson? | TSN

The TSN Hockey Insiders discuss where the Sharks and Erik Karlsson are right now on a possible trade, the Senators going to arbitration with Alex DeBrincat, the many options between the pipes in the off-season and the Oilers focusing on bolstering their defence.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Osakahaus]

Brett Pesce could be available. Islanders should be all over him as well to upgrade the defense

 

[IslesNorway]

I don't think the Islanders have what it takes to go for DeBrincat, and neither do I think they should. He will ask for an 8 year deal, and we simply cannot have half the team on deals that last forever. It kills any chance of actually upgrading the roster continuously.
If Lou truly believes we can win the cup with Lee and Nelson as main pieces, he should go looking for players whose contract lengths match theirs. Failing to win, a rebuild/retool can be done with the likes of Horvat, Barzal and Sorokin still in their prime.

 

[Osakahaus]

I don't think the Islanders have what it takes to go for DeBrincat, and neither do I think they should. He will ask for an 8 year deal, and we simply cannot have half the team on deals that last forever. It kills any chance of actually upgrading the roster continuously.
If Lou truly believes we can win the cup with Lee and Nelson as main pieces, he should go looking for players whose contract lengths match theirs. Failing to win, a rebuild/retool can be done with the likes of Horvat, Barzal and Sorokin still in their prime.

It needs to start with the defense

 

[Throttle]

FWIW, here's a blurb from TSN about Debrincat:

"While in Ottawa on this day, the Senators elected for salary arbitration with Alex DeBrincat, but how that should be interpreted is basically they set the window for when they have to trade him. Any salary arbitration case comes with a one-year contract awarded and there's an understanding here that DeBrincat is most valuable as an asset if he gets a multi-year deal. And so that means they're going to have to deal him by the end of July or early August when the arbitration hearings happen. I believe they're going to put a push on here to get that deal done much, much sooner by the draft this month. There's said to be very strong interest from the smallest of teams DeBrincat and his camp provided. And right now for the Senators, it's working through those conversations and finding the best return."

Insider Trading: Will the Sharks part ways with Karlsson? | TSN

The TSN Hockey Insiders discuss where the Sharks and Erik Karlsson are right now on a possible trade, the Senators going to arbitration with Alex DeBrincat, the many options between the pipes in the off-season and the Oilers focusing on bolstering their defence.

www.tsn.ca

Strikes me as a good player on not so good to possible tweener teams, not a player that can hack it under a long playoff run.

He adds little value under the compete window and even less under the rebuild window, so in essence, he’s not the right fit for this team.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Strikes me as a good player on not so good to possible tweener teams, not a player that can hack it under a long playoff run.

He adds little value under the compete window and even less under the rebuild window, so in essence, he’s not the right fit for this team.

Is the concern over hacking it over a long playoff run size related? Because that's completely fair, but anything else is just questioning his compete level which I never think is fair.

Career playoffs 9 GP 2G 4A 6P +4

I also understand the issue with the term he will be looking for, that puts the Isles in a bind. But, how does a consistent goal scorer - being a sniper and big time powerplay threat - add little value to the compete window? That is something that is sorely lacking from this team and we've been screaming it from the rooftops. Why are we turning our nose up at players who fit the Isles biggest need that are available?

Also, who gives a hoot about the rebuild window now? We'll get there when we get there.

 

[mm11]

Some folks stress less over potential draft parties and top 5 picks than pulling the trigger on a sniper who is what 25 years old?

 

[SRBisles]

Isles fans are way too picky.

“We need more goal scorers!”

*2x 40 goal scorer becomes available*

“No not that one. Not a good fit.”

These unicorn players that score, pass, play physically, are good in all 3 zones, etc. that some fans pine for are very rare around the league period let alone on the trade block. We’re not getting one of those unless we draft them.

Debrincat is a great player, even with his flaws we should all be thrilled if he were brought in.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

With no disrespect to @doublechili I'm back on the Olofsson option because of a thoughtful criticism of him by a Sabres fan on the main rumors board. The point regarding style of play is what renewed my interest.

"This is just not true at all.

Olofsson works hard, and he is always trying, he just is completely lost in Granatos loose system that requires the forwards to read the ice and their linemates and react accordingly. No one has a set job, and the players are either responsible for center defensive duties or f1 forecheching duties depending on where on the ice they are in regards to the puck.

Olofsson struggles with the reads and finding chemistry with his linemates. He is always skating and back checking, but often misses his assignments, double teaming the puck or not effectively switching assignments when the situation calls for it.

He is not physical at all, so he does not win a lot of puck battles, but he has a quick stick and can strip the puck from puck carriers.

He will give you a solid effort, but he needs structure and a clear job to do on the ice. He is poor at improvising and adjusting on the fly.

He will score 20 goals with his eyes closed though, one of the best shooters in the league. Picks his spots, rings a lot of posts or just misses wide, but rarely hits the goalie with any of his shots."

 

[SI]

I disagree. I think Pageau plus say a protected 2024 first may get it done. Would give Ottawa some capspace, improves their PK and faceoffs. It also gives them extra capspace to work with. I dont think a ton of teams will be in on DeBrincat. He is going to command a lot of money and will pretty much have his say of where he wants to go.

They already have 3C's in Sttutzle, Norris, and Pinto. They don't need Pageau.They need a top 6 Winger.

And a team can offer a mid round 2023 1st and that would beat that offer.

Also, we don’t know if the Isles are on his list of preferred destinations

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

How about you blame it on Garth Snow, the GM who traded the Brannstrom pick for nothing.

Well, he traded that pick and a bit more to have his buddy McPhee select a 3rd string nobody and take on Grabovski's contract, which no-one thought was a problem because he was on long-term IR, but whatever.

That was the get.

 

[Glory Days]

With no disrespect to @doublechili I'm back on the Olofsson option because of a thoughtful criticism of him by a Sabres fan on the main rumors board. The point regarding style of play is what renewed my interest.

"This is just not true at all.

Olofsson works hard, and he is always trying, he just is completely lost in Granatos loose system that requires the forwards to read the ice and their linemates and react accordingly. No one has a set job, and the players are either responsible for center defensive duties or f1 forecheching duties depending on where on the ice they are in regards to the puck.

Olofsson struggles with the reads and finding chemistry with his linemates. He is always skating and back checking, but often misses his assignments, double teaming the puck or not effectively switching assignments when the situation calls for it.

He is not physical at all, so he does not win a lot of puck battles, but he has a quick stick and can strip the puck from puck carriers.

He will give you a solid effort, but he needs structure and a clear job to do on the ice. He is poor at improvising and adjusting on the fly.

He will score 20 goals with his eyes closed though, one of the best shooters in the league. Picks his spots, rings a lot of posts or just misses wide, but rarely hits the goalie with any of his shots."

Thanks for posting that. Based on that assessment of Olofsson he would be a poor fit with Barzal. Perhaps he could play with Horvat if Barzal does not

 

[Seph]

Isles fans are way too picky.

“We need more goal scorers!”

*2x 40 goal scorer becomes available*

“No not that one. Not a good fit.”

These unicorn players that score, pass, play physically, are good in all 3 zones, etc. that some fans pine for are very rare around the league period let alone on the trade block. We’re not getting one of those unless we draft them.

Debrincat is a great player, even with his flaws we should all be thrilled if he were brought in.

Cat has shown to be more of a 25-30 goal scorer when not playing on a PP with Kane. I don't see anyone on the Isles as being at the Kane level, especially on the PP, so I suspect he'd be more around the 25-30g level than the 40g level here. That is still something we could certainly use, but how much in assets and cap space are we willing to pay for it? I think as long as that cost is acceptable anyone would be thrilled to have him brought in. I also think the reticence on him is that many expect that said cost could be too high, which is a fair and valid concern, IMO.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Thanks for posting that. Based on that assessment of Olofsson he would be a poor fit with Barzal. Perhaps he could play with Horvat if Barzal does not

Sure, or maybe he's used with Pageau who is defensively responsible and is more structured in general. And then the true benefit of Olofsson is would be the Barzal - Olofsson cross-ice pass for a one-timer on the Powerplay (something we try with Nelson and it doesn't work).

Olofsson sounds like a slower Beauvillier (lack of high-end hockey IQ) but can shoot the puck as well as anyone in the league. Or maybe a better comparison is that Olofsson is what we want Wahlstrom to be.

It doesn't sound like he would cost a 1st or another high priced asset that hurts the future like DeBrincat would.

I'm just trying to be creative considering needs, trade-able assets and cap space.

 

[SI]

Oloffson could improve the PP - it also would create different looks having Nelson, Horvat, and Olofsson rotate from front net, bumper, and right half wall... essentially pushign Lee down to PP2.

If the consensus is that the keep Barzal, Horvat, Nelson, and Pageau - moving one to the wing, then the Isles have 1 top 6 F they could add - is it Engvall or Olofsson?

 

[Kevin27NYI]

The thought of sending Bailey and Pageau to San Jose for Karlsson with retention tickles me.

 

[Osakahaus]

Isles fans are way too picky.

“We need more goal scorers!”

*2x 40 goal scorer becomes available*

“No not that one. Not a good fit.”

These unicorn players that score, pass, play physically, are good in all 3 zones, etc. that some fans pine for are very rare around the league period let alone on the trade block. We’re not getting one of those unless we draft them.

Debrincat is a great player, even with his flaws we should all be thrilled if he were brought in.

And we don't have the cap space and he's small. I want to get a defenseman like Pesce because this team has missed such a player. Debrincat would be fine, but we'd have to sacrifice Pageau (big loss), another 1st, and maybe another prospect in an already thin system.

Oloffson could improve the PP - it also would create different looks having Nelson, Horvat, and Olofsson rotate from front net, bumper, and right half wall... essentially pushign Lee down to PP2.

If the consensus is that the keep Barzal, Horvat, Nelson, and Pageau - moving one to the wing, then the Isles have 1 top 6 F they could add - is it Engvall or Olofsson?

This is a bad player. I do not want a guy who is a career minus player at all, because he isn't gonna help anything at all. Powerplay starts and ends on defense. We need to fix that defense.

 

[SRBisles]

And we don't have the cap space and he's small. I want to get a defenseman like Pesce because this team has missed such a player. Debrincat would be fine, but we'd have to sacrifice Pageau (big loss), another 1st, and maybe another prospect in an already thin system.

I’m not arguing that the cost would be high, it definitely would. I’m just talking about the fans that don’t think Debrincat is a fit regardless of cost.

I agree that the top priority should be the defense.

 

[Osakahaus]

I’m not arguing that the cost would be high, it definitely would. I’m just talking about the fans that don’t think Debrincat is a fit regardless of cost.

I agree that the top priority should be the defense.

I dont think he's a fit unless you think he and Barzal and Horvat mesh instantly. it also means that we have to shed more depth like Parise and Pageau and maybe even Holmstrom

 

[WangMustGo]

The thought of sending Bailey and Pageau to San Jose for Karlsson with retention tickles me.

It was rumored the Sharks wanted 3 first for Karlsson.

 

[Glory Days]

Sure, or maybe he's used with Pageau who is defensively responsible and is more structured in general. And then the true benefit of Olofsson is would be the Barzal - Olofsson cross-ice pass for a one-timer on the Powerplay (something we try with Nelson and it doesn't work).

Olofsson sounds like a slower Beauvillier (lack of high-end hockey IQ) but can shoot the puck as well as anyone in the league. Or maybe a better comparison is that Olofsson is what we want Wahlstrom to be.

It doesn't sound like he would cost a 1st or another high priced asset that hurts the future like DeBrincat would.

I'm just trying to be creative considering needs, trade-able assets and cap space.

Appreciate the creativity. I’m not sure Pageau has the playmaking skills to help Olofsson use his shot. Other than Barzal (who is tough to play with) none of the Isles other centers are very good playmakers that would get the puck to Olofsson in prime shooting position. IMO the Isles need a wing that can drive play. Their best scorers are 2 centers Horvat and Nelson.

 

[doublechili]

The talk about forwards is fun, but we do still have Lou's comment last year that ideally they'd get 2 defensemen - one offensive and one defensive. They got the defensive guy in Romanov. Is he happy with Aho again as the "offensive" guy going into next season, or is he thinking bigger?

I know people say he's bad defensively and even a net negative, but Karlsson had 101 points this past season. Think about that. For example, PLD had 63 and Debrincat had 66. Karlsson is probably going to be traded in the next couple of weeks. I keep coming back to him as possibly the single available guy who would transform the Isles the most. And you could probably send Bailey the other way as part of the deal and make him go away for "nothing". Let Mayfield walk. Obviously Karlsson is 33 and is signed for $11M+ for 4 more years, so yeah there's that. And I just don't have a handle on his value. Is there negative value with no retention? What about with say $2-3M of retention? He has a NMC, so SJ can't just go out and make their best deal. Anyway, I understand this is crazy talk and I'm not advocating for a deal - just wondering if it's worth thinking about.

[edit: I didn't see the earlier post about Karlsson, and the most recent one was posted while I was typing this]

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

View attachment 718519
This is a bad player. I do not want a guy who is a career minus player at all, because he isn't gonna help anything at all. Powerplay starts and ends on defense. We need to fix that defense.

The Pesce idea is a great one.

But let's not dismiss a player solely because of his +/- while being a part of truly terrible teams. John Tavares was a -42 as a member of the NYI. I get what you're saying but +/- is not the best metric of player evaluation.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

It was rumored the Sharks wanted 3 first for Karlsson.

Lou will give them four.

 

[leeroggy]

The thought of sending Bailey and Pageau to San Jose for Karlsson with retention tickles me.

And when Mike Greer stops laughing from the tickling?