Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[PK Cronin]

Colorado is interesting in that they are a realization of what Toronto aspired to… but failed to achieve.

Avalanche have better distribution of their top players along roster positions. They were also much quicker at identifying and getting quality depth.

Having Makar is a huge difference for them compared to Toronto.

 

[IslesNorway]

Per CapFriendly, the Isles have $24M in projected cap space the year Sorokin's new deal would kick in. And that's assuming, for example, that Pageau is still here.

Yeah, but how many roster spots to fill with that $24 million? Remember they will need to replace Varly and Mayfield before that, and I fully expect Lou to give a new deal to Engvall as well, or at least find a replacement. There goes around $10 million. Give 10 to Sorokin (he's probably worth it, mind) and you have about $5 million or so to replace Bailey, Clutterbuck and Martin.

And on top of that the Isles should be looking at getting better?!? Nah, not gonna happen is it?

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Count all the bad contracts on the books. Not every one was mentioned by name.

Sure. I was just responding to the ones mentioned since they were most relevant in terms of length and timeline comparative to a potential new Sorokin deal. It wasn't about bad contracts in general, at least as far as I could tell.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Having Makar is a huge difference for them compared to Toronto.

This was also the main issue in them signing Tavares. No a Makar would not have been available but if they were going to give out an albatross contract they should have given it to Karlsson instead of Tavares.

 

[Seph]

Yeah, but how many roster spots to fill with that $24 million? Remember they will need to replace Varly and Mayfield before that, and I fully expect Lou to give a new deal to Engvall as well, or at least find a replacement. There goes around $10 million. Give 10 to Sorokin (he's probably worth it, mind) and you have about $5 million or so to replace Bailey, Clutterbuck and Martin.

And on top of that the Isles should be looking at getting better?!? Nah, not gonna happen is it?

Assuming Engvall is signed for 4mil or less, that leaves at least 10 mil for a bottom pairing D, a backup goalie, two 4th liners and a healthy scratch? Seems pretty easily done. Maybe doesn't leave a lot for upgrades, but losing Sorokin feels like it would be a much worse problem, so i dont see the reason to risk doing so. One can still work on moving salary after re-signing Sorokin.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

There’s too many to count.

You can't count to 23? Because that's how many total players there are on a hockey team.

 

[seafoam]

Is the cap confirmed to not be rising?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Is the cap confirmed to not be rising?

I believe projection at mid-season was for it to only increase slightly ($1M)

League won't know for certain until next month I believe.

 

[TeamKidd]

Yeah, but how many roster spots to fill with that $24 million? Remember they will need to replace Varly and Mayfield before that, and I fully expect Lou to give a new deal to Engvall as well, or at least find a replacement. There goes around $10 million. Give 10 to Sorokin (he's probably worth it, mind) and you have about $5 million or so to replace Bailey, Clutterbuck and Martin.

And on top of that the Isles should be looking at getting better?!? Nah, not gonna happen is it?

The only way this team gets better is if their draft picks come through...


oh wait...

 

[PK Cronin]

Is the cap confirmed to not be rising?

Nothing confirmed.

The first round of the playoffs did really well in terms of viewership so we'll see how well the rest of the playoffs does in comparison. If it does well enough there's a chance the escrow could be paid off and it'll rise significantly. Having all these southern markets left probably puts an end to that dream though.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Assuming Engvall is signed for 4mil or less, that leaves at least 10 mil for a bottom pairing D, a backup goalie, two 4th liners and a healthy scratch? Seems pretty easily done. Maybe doesn't leave a lot for upgrades, but losing Sorokin feels like it would be a much worse problem, so i dont see the reason to risk doing so. One can still work on moving salary after re-signing Sorokin.

I’m not keen on signing Engvall for anything more than three a year, he doesnt really have upside and is basically a guy who scores 15 goals. I’d rather roll dice on Holmstrom for less than a million next year can score 15 on third line and use money to get a real top six winger that you can put with Horvat and Barzal. Durandeau can be in mix, Wahlstrom returns, maybe Parise returns also so i dont believe we need Engvall, especially at north of three million a year but that’s just me.

 

[doublechili]

Islanders cannot sign anyone to any major deal before Bailey, Martin, Clutterbuck, Palmieri and Pageau are all off the books.

Yeah, but how many roster spots to fill with that $24 million? Remember they will need to replace Varly and Mayfield before that, and I fully expect Lou to give a new deal to Engvall as well, or at least find a replacement. There goes around $10 million. Give 10 to Sorokin (he's probably worth it, mind) and you have about $5 million or so to replace Bailey, Clutterbuck and Martin.

And on top of that the Isles should be looking at getting better?!? Nah, not gonna happen is it?

I was just responding to the earlier exchange - pointing out that the Isles will have space to sign Sorokin. And I don't see $10M to Sorokin. And I don't see $10M to signed Engvall plus a backup goalie and 3rd pair defenseman.

 

[leeroggy]

Is the cap confirmed to not be rising?

No, there will be final discussions based on what was held back in escrow from the Covid years

 

[Sparksrus3]

I’m not keen on signing Engvall for anything more than three a year, he doesnt really have upside and is basically a guy who scores 15 goals. I’d rather roll dice on Holmstrom for less than a million next year can score 15 on third line and use money to get a real top six winger that you can put with Horvat and Barzal. Durandeau can be in mix, Wahlstrom returns, maybe Parise returns also so i dont believe we need Engvall, especially at north of three million a year but that’s just me.

if I had to pick only one of Durandeau, Wally, Engvall, or Parise , I take the old guy . if the islanders have to play all four of them in the same lineup I can only ask how many days till pitchers and catchers ? LGI

 

[LeapOnOver]

He may literally be the best goalie in the league. There is no goalie from last year’s Vezina voting top 6 goalies, that are in the top 3 this year, except Sorokin. What I mean by that is, I would venture to say, over the last two years, I would bet Sorokin has the best stats of any goalie, if you combined the last 2 years. Which means he’s extremely consistent.

I was shocked to read he was 6th in the Vezina voting last year, he should’ve been a finalist. Was 2nd in the league in shutouts and save percentage, and 4th in goals against. On a non playoff team no less. Maybe that’s why he was 6th, he was on a bad team. But stats wise, he should’ve been a finalist.

Isles were still doing 1a/1b at that point. Not really gonna win a Vezina in that kind of situation. This year it's serious contention because he had the reigns (and carried the team).

 

[LeapOnOver]

I’m not keen on signing Engvall for anything more than three a year, he doesnt really have upside and is basically a guy who scores 15 goals. I’d rather roll dice on Holmstrom for less than a million next year can score 15 on third line and use money to get a real top six winger that you can put with Horvat and Barzal. Durandeau can be in mix, Wahlstrom returns, maybe Parise returns also so i dont believe we need Engvall, especially at north of three million a year but that’s just me.

After trading Beau, Engvall is the only guy with any dangerous speed on this roster. Soft as butter, but not likely to lose his speed any time soon. If he's signed longer than 3 years I won't bat an eye. I have a hard time believing Holmstrom is anywhere close to scoring 15 in a season unless he suddenly comes in with 20 lbs of muscle next season.

 

[Seph]

I’m not keen on signing Engvall for anything more than three a year, he doesnt really have upside and is basically a guy who scores 15 goals. I’d rather roll dice on Holmstrom for less than a million next year can score 15 on third line and use money to get a real top six winger that you can put with Horvat and Barzal. Durandeau can be in mix, Wahlstrom returns, maybe Parise returns also so i dont believe we need Engvall, especially at north of three million a year but that’s just me.

That's fine too. I was responding to a post that was assuming we'd re-sign Engvall and how that made it a problem to re-sign Sorokin this summer, so I was simply explaining why it wasn't using an estimate on the max I figured it would take to sign him. I wasn't advocating for any particular dollar amount on the re-signing.

 

[IslesNorway]

Assuming Engvall is signed for 4mil or less, that leaves at least 10 mil for a bottom pairing D, a backup goalie, two 4th liners and a healthy scratch? Seems pretty easily done. Maybe doesn't leave a lot for upgrades, but losing Sorokin feels like it would be a much worse problem, so i dont see the reason to risk doing so. One can still work on moving salary after re-signing Sorokin.

I agree resigning Sorokin should be priority no.1. With him, we always have a chance of winning. But we also have to learn from the mistakes of the past, like when Boychuck was forced into early retirement for cap space reasons.

Personally, taking Bailey's money and giving it to Sorokin is a no brainer, but since there's a year until the deal expires then they have to play careful. There'll be little space for upgrades of any kind, so getting better in between is more or less impossible, especially since they will also have to replace Mayfield too.

It's not gonna be hard to fit a team until the cap, but fitting a competitive or even improved team will be a much different issue.

 

[Seph]

I agree resigning Sorokin should be priority no.1. With him, we always have a chance of winning. But we also have to learn from the mistakes of the past, like when Boychuck was forced into early retirement for cap space reasons.

Personally, taking Bailey's money and giving it to Sorokin is a no brainer, but since there's a year until the deal expires then they have to play careful. There'll be little space for upgrades of any kind, so getting better in between is more or less impossible, especially since they will also have to replace Mayfield too.

It's not gonna be hard to fit a team until the cap, but fitting a competitive or even improved team will be a much different issue.

I don't see why Bailey's contract having a year left on it affects things for Sorokin's new contract. Regardless of when we re-sign Sorokin, his new contract wouldn't start until after Bailey's ends.

It'll make it harder to upgrade by way of signing UFAs or trading futures for established players, for sure, but this summer will be a rough time for that regardless of cap space, due to limited future assets and a particularly weak UFA class. But that doesnt necessarily make improvement impossible. Young players finally taking the next step, finding a diamond in the rough like the Cats did with Verhaege, player for player trades of similar cap hits, Barzal and Horvat having a full season to build chemistry, a full season of playing the system we played after Barzal was injured, Lambert having a full season of experience going into the season, etc. are all potential avenues for improvement without needing a lot of cap space.

Will any of those pan out? And if they do will it exceed any regression from older players? Maybe, maybe not -- I am not making a prediction here, but am just saying it'd still be possible.

 

[JPIsles18]

I’m not keen on signing Engvall for anything more than three a year, he doesnt really have upside and is basically a guy who scores 15 goals. I’d rather roll dice on Holmstrom for less than a million next year can score 15 on third line and use money to get a real top six winger that you can put with Horvat and Barzal. Durandeau can be in mix, Wahlstrom returns, maybe Parise returns also so i dont believe we need Engvall, especially at north of three million a year but that’s just me.

Engvall is a big body who can skate and is good in transition. When he was on the ice, the line he was on, usually had more scoring chances than the opposition. I liked the Engvall move more than the Horvat move, because Horvat was immediately signed to a ridiculous contract off of a career year during his age 27 season. Engvall moves are the type of moves that Lou should be making: under the radar type of players with speed and favorable possession and shot creation data that may be undervalued.

It depends on the price, but Engvall is already more valuable than some of the unnecessary overpayments we have on this team. But 3 years is the sweet spot for him.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

After trading Beau, Engvall is the only guy with any dangerous speed on this roster. Soft as butter, but not likely to lose his speed any time soon. If he's signed longer than 3 years I won't bat an eye. I have a hard time believing Holmstrom is anywhere close to scoring 15 in a season unless he suddenly comes in with 20 lbs of muscle next season.

I've just gotten back from the future and can let everyone know that Holmstrom's next five seasons will look like this:
5-12-17
11-23-34
20-24-44
18-41-59
33-52-85

Don't shoot the messenger...

 

[Top Corner]

I think the only way this team gets out of a seeding between 12 & 20 is a bold hockey trade. It worked well for Florida not so much for Calgary

 

[WangMustGo]

I think the only way this team gets out of a seeding between 12 & 20 is a bold hockey trade. It worked well for Florida not so much for Calgary

Unfortunately we dont have the pieces to trade for a Tkachuk caliber player.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

It depends on the price, but Engvall is already more valuable than some of the unnecessary overpayments we have on this team. But 3 years is the sweet spot for him.

What we saw from Engvall this spring tells us that if he stays, he'd likely be good for 15-20-35 next season with a shot at 20-25-45 if all goes well and the chemistry would continue with i.e. Nelson and Palms, especially if Palms could finally show his productive abilities over a longer period of time during the season.

How important will it be to Lou to keep him here and then how will he do it?

 

[seafoam]

Cap ceiling = 83.5M (so goes up by 1M)

Trade:
EDIT: Bailey + NYI 2024 2nd to Chicago for Future Considerations

RFA:
Wahlstrom, 2 years 1.25M per

UFA:
Severson, 5 years 6M per
Engvall, 3 years 3.33M per
Delia, 1 year 1M per
Parise, 1 year 775K
Wotherspoon 775K

LTIR:
Clutterbuck

Waived:
Johnston

Engvall-Nelson-Palmieri
Lee-Horvat-Holmstrom
Wahlstrom-Barzal-Pageau
Parise-Cizikas-Fasching
Martin, Koivula

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-Severson
Aho-Dobson
Wotherspoon

Sorokin
Delia

53K in cap space baby!

Call ups:
Durandeau
Dufour
Iskhakov
Hutton
Salo
Johnston