Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[periferal]

We don't know the exact circumstances because Lou and Trotz aren't the kind of guys who would share that publicly. But they didn't seem on bad terms for a "firing", and if we are to believe Botta (big if) Lou and Trotz speak regularly. Combine that with Trotz not taking head coach jobs that he was offered and ultimately saying that his head wasn't into coaching this year. And now he's just taken what is probably his dream job: GM of Nashville. Have any of those events/circumstances chipped away at your initial reaction?

Again....

It's less about Trotz leaving and who Lou replaced him with. Last offseason 10 teams hired new coaches. The only ones that hired rookie coaches were...

• Red Wings (rebuilding)
• Blackhawks (rebuilding)
• Islanders (supposed Cup contender)

I don't know how this isn't discussed more. How can any GM take what he thinks is a Daytona 500 winning car and put a rookie driver's seat? That's GM malpractice to me.

 

[BrockLobster]

Thank you for acknowledging and addressing the specific point. Respect.

To further...Are you happy finding out if Lane is the guy, or would you have preferred Lou hiring an experienced coach?




I guess this is where we disagree. I think trading the 13th overall pick for a defenseman who taps out as a 2nd pairing D-man, but is currently a mistake-prone bottom pairing one is about as bad as it gets - Especially when we're being told by the GM that the team you're adding him to is a Cup contender (and that team has zero farm system).

That #13 pick could've been used in so many smarter ways. I mean Kevin Fiala was traded for #19 overall and Brock Faber so the idea that we could've traded #13+ for him is a hell of a lot more appealing than Romanov - And that's taking into account his contract. I'm not even the biggest Fiala fan, but that's just one example. Bottom line, there were other options and better ways to use that asset, and especially now that we can see the Romanov is more problem than solution.

What other coach did you have in mind? I honestly dont even remember who was available.

I understand your gripe on romonov trade. My only point is it wasnt the worst trade ever. He is 22 so plenty of room to grow. Pelech sucked once too.

That's Lou's job though? To inquire, to made (find) a deal to help the team in the offseason. He never does, name a time he made a trade during the offseason?

He doesnt. He sucks in the offseason

 

[Glorydays22]

he got JT Miller until someone told the teacher and it ruined it

LOL, Lou sent Van GM Allvin to the corner with a dunce cap.

 

[islesfan3913]

He acquired two players in their primes who fill needs in our lineup. Engvall is going to be signed cause Lou never rents a player. Isles will also have Pageau returning relatively soon, Barzal down line and sounded like Lambert was a bit optimistic about Clutterbuck even coming back. I’m surprised they didnt add a defenseman but now it’s about guys they have on left side, Aho, Wotherspoon, Bolduc and even Salo depending on how things go.

I don’t consider players we already had and are coming back from injury as additions, that always has and always will be a weak way for GM’s to excuse the lack of proactiveness in improving a team. And I understand and don’t mind the Horvat and Engvall trades on their own, but them along with no other moves, whether they be to buy or sell, makes little sense. Are we trying to compete now or not? If we are, then why did we make no other moves. If not, then why are we keeping Mayfield and Varly? What it’s looking like right now is that we’ll make no other trades and end up re-signing Mayfield, Engvall and Varly which will only make it so we can’t improve the team any further for next season. Being in between like this makes no sense.

I'm just as confused, I hate half measures. Those deals signaled to me that Lou is going for it and the Isles would be full on buyers. Not acquiring an LHD better than Aho is perplexing to say the least.

But you said "no moves." Lou did make moves, one huge move and another smaller one to fill a hole. That's all.

135 degrees.

Again, it seems like you’re being obtuse. I’m obviously talking about moves today because, like you said, the Horvat and Engvall trades signaled that we’re going for it this year. We should be either buyers or sellers in our position right now and doing neither just complicates things going forward, especially when it almost certainly means we’re re-signing Mayfield and maybe even Varly.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

i'm told that "half measures avail us nothing"


he got JT Miller until someone told the teacher and it ruined it

What if that wasn’t Miller was Horvat all along?

 

[Glorydays22]

He doesnt. He sucks in the offseason

So true, he's a fossil. He doesn't wake up until halfway into the season.

 

[The Wahligator]

Again....

It's less about Trotz leaving and who Lou replaced him with. Last offseason 10 teams hired new coaches. The only ones that hired rookie coaches were...

• Red Wings (rebuilding)
• Blackhawks (rebuilding)
• Islanders (supposed Cup contender)

I don't know how this isn't discussed more. How can any GM take what he thinks is a Daytona 500 winning car and put a rookie driver's seat? That's GM malpractice to me.

I agree with you here, and to make matters worse the rationale for removing Trotz (whether true or not) was to bring in a “new voice”, only to hire the guy that’s been his right hand man for 20 years. The whole thing didn’t make much sense from any perspective.

 

[GOLFWANG]

What I am scared of is what GM is next, I can't say Lou has been our worst GM and I think there are a ton GM's out there that are worse.

So everyone that wants Lou gone the grass isn't always greener on the other side is what they say

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

I don’t consider players we already had and are coming back from injury as additions, that always has and always will be a weak way for GM’s to excuse the lack of proactiveness in improving a team. And I understand and don’t mind the Horvat and Engvall trades on their own, but them along with no other moves, whether they be to buy or sell, makes little sense. Are we trying to compete now or not? If we are, then why did we make no other moves. If not, then why are we keeping Mayfield and Varly? What it’s looking like right now is that we’ll make no other trades and end up re-signing Mayfield, Engvall and Varly which will only make it so we can’t improve the team any further for next season. Being in between like this makes no sense.



Again, it seems like you’re being obtuse. I’m obviously talking about moves today because, like you said, the Horvat and Engvall trades signaled that we’re going for it this year. We should be either buyers or sellers in our position right now and doing neither just complicates things going forward, especially when it almost certainly means we’re re-signing Mayfield and maybe even Varly.

How can’t we improve if we sign all of those guys? Bailey I’m sure is going to be moved out or bought out, perhaps Pageau could be moved or Palmieri or someone like that if they are upgrading further up front. The defense isn’t bad, Aho is the weak link but there are some guys in organization already like Bolduc who perhaps could take that spot.

 

[Glorydays22]

I agree with you here, and to make matters worse the rationale for removing Trotz (whether true or not) was to bring in a “new voice”, only to hire the guy that’s been his right hand man for 20 years. The whole thing didn’t make much sense from any perspective.

Again....

It's less about Trotz leaving and who Lou replaced him with. Last offseason 10 teams hired new coaches. The only ones that hired rookie coaches were...

• Red Wings (rebuilding)
• Blackhawks (rebuilding)
• Islanders (supposed Cup contender)

I don't know how this isn't discussed more. How can any GM take what he thinks is a Daytona 500 winning car and put a rookie driver's seat? That's GM malpractice to me.

Totally agree, to me this screams of just Lou's complete arrogance that he can make anything work because he's Lou Lamoriello

 

[Mike C]

LOL, Lou sent Van GM Allvin to the corner with a dunce cap.

sad thing about it that he's still there!

 

[12Dog]

How can’t we improve if we sign all of those guys? Bailey I’m sure is going to be moved out or bought out, perhaps Pageau could be moved or Palmieri or someone like that if they are upgrading further up front. The defense isn’t bad, Aho is the weak link but there are some guys in organization already like Bolduc who perhaps could take that spot.

I wonder whose decision it is for Aho to play over any of those guys, Lou’s or Lambert’s. Cause whoever keeps running Aho out there, I don’t what you’re watching. And pairing him with Dobson? Wtf is Lambert doing there?

 

[Mike C]

What if that wasn’t Miller was Horvat all along?

if that truly was the case, Lou did a major disservice to the entire NYI community from the owners to the janitors and should be dismissed for malpractice

 

[MarsTBOW]

I wonder whose decision it is for Aho to play over any of those guys, Lou’s or Lambert’s. Cause whoever keeps running Aho out there, I don’t what you’re watching. And pairing him with Dobson? Wtf is Lambert doing there?

120%!!!!!

 

[periferal]

What other coach did you have in mind? I honestly dont even remember who was available.

Over Lane...? Easily Montgomery and DeBoer. And I would've taken Bowness (yes I know) and Cassidy as well. Maybe Lou reached out to all of them and none of them wanted to work for Lou- I mean come here, but I just cannot get behind hiring a rookie coach given where Lou says he wanted to go THIS YEAR.

I understand your gripe on romonov trade. My only point is it wasnt the worst trade ever. He is 22 so plenty of room to grow. Pelech sucked once too.

Is this how we're judging trades now...?

"At least it wasn't the worst trade ever."

Come on...If we're trying to win a Cup we've got to do better than that. Lou blew it with Romanov. Why is it so hard for us to simply hold him fully accountable for that?

 

[Glorydays22]

I wonder whose decision it is for Aho to play over any of those guys, Lou’s or Lambert’s. Cause whoever keeps running Aho out there, I don’t what you’re watching. And pairing him with Dobson? Wtf is Lambert doing there?

My opinion is it's Lambert but the reason for this is he's under orders from Lou to find more offense from within. So I think he's rolling the dice with Aho and is bone headed mistakes unfortunately.

 

[periferal]

Lou won't even let reporters know that he's done for the day.

As if he might gain some advantage over other teams with them thinking he *might* pull off a deal AFTER the trade deadline...

 

[doublechili]

Again....

It's less about Trotz leaving and who Lou replaced him with. Last offseason 10 teams hired new coaches. The only ones that hired rookie coaches were...

• Red Wings (rebuilding)
• Blackhawks (rebuilding)
• Islanders (supposed Cup contender)

I don't know how this isn't discussed more. How can any GM take what he thinks is a Daytona 500 winning car and put a rookie driver's seat? That's GM malpractice to me.

But aren't the circumstances of Trotz' "firing" relevant? Especially when the "rookie" replacement was Trotz' assistant for I believe 12 years? Fortunately, the owners know more about all of this than we do, and they'll be the ones making the decisions.

 

[Mike C]

120%!!!!!

I wonder whose decision it is for Aho to play over any of those guys, Lou’s or Lambert’s. Cause whoever keeps running Aho out there, I don’t what you’re watching. And pairing him with Dobson? Wtf is Lambert doing there?

he's just being the new voice.

saw a graphic on an out of town game this week that noted mayfield/aho are in top 1 or 2 alternately in lowest goals against vs actual ice time together

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Again, it seems like you’re being obtuse. I’m obviously talking about moves today because, like you said, the Horvat and Engvall trades signaled that we’re going for it this year. We should be either buyers or sellers in our position right now and doing neither just complicates things going forward, especially when it almost certainly means we’re re-signing Mayfield and maybe even Varly.

I'm not. The whole discussion today and the last few weeks has been about Lou, so I thought your original post was about him not doing anything. So I asked a question if those moves counted or not.

You decided to quip back with nice little jab from Andy Dufresne. Not sure why.

I even agreed with you that now today's events makes zero sense.

@Glorydays22 and I were able to disagree today without the digs at each other.

Today's inability to bolster the LHD will most likely define how the playoff run or lackthereof.

 

[islesfan3913]

How can’t we improve if we sign all of those guys? Bailey I’m sure is going to be moved out or bought out, perhaps Pageau could be moved or Palmieri or someone like that if they are upgrading further up front. The defense isn’t bad, Aho is the weak link but there are some guys in organization already like Bolduc who perhaps could take that spot.

Just look at the things you’re saying we would have to do in order to improve if we do re-sign our guys. You’re talking about trying to move two bad contracts in Palmieri and Bailey and maybe trying to move an overpaid player as well. None of those three on their own would be easy to do except for trading Pageau but then that creates a hole in the lineup. I don’t really think a buyout would be in the cards either.

 

[BrockLobster]

What I am scared of is what GM is next, I can't say Lou has been our worst GM and I think there are a ton GM's out there that are worse.

So everyone that wants Lou gone the grass isn't always greener on the other side is what they say

From snow to lou this grass was much much much greener

 

[islesfan3913]

I'm not. The whole discussion today and the last few weeks has been about Lou, so I thought your original post was about him not doing anything. So I asked a question if those moves counted or not.

You decided to quip back with nice little jab from Andy Dufresne. Not sure why.

I even agreed with you that now today's events makes zero sense.

@Glorydays22 and I were able to disagree today without the digs at each other.

Today's inability to bolster the LHD will most likely define how the playoff run or lackthereof.

And you asked them in a somewhat sarcastic way by seemingly subtly implying you think those moves should count on some level. I don’t think I really took a dig either, it’s the trade deadline and I’m very aware we made moves in the last couple weeks so I’m obviously talking about a lack of moves today.

 

[periferal]

But aren't the circumstances of Trotz' "firing" relevant? Especially when the "rookie" replacement was Trotz' assistant for I believe 12 years? Fortunately, the owners know more about all of this than we do, and they'll be the ones making the decisions.

They're really not. Jim Hillier and Jon Gruden were also on Trotz's staff. How come they weren't given a shot at coach, or at least retained? Lane knew them better than anyone so says something they weren't kept. He did what he felt was best for the franchise (or they didn't believe in him) and both have other assistant jobs now. Either way that says something.

Bottom line - This is always about doing what's best for the franchise - Not giving an inexperienced person a shot to lead your players just because he's been with the organization for years.

I mean there's a reason why Lane wasn't given a shot by any number of other teams earlier. I have a hunch we are the only team that would've hired him and probably will be last NHL head coaching job he has.

 

[BrockLobster]

Ok back to hockey. 4 huge games coming up. Lets go!