Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[doublechili]

but it was a different kind of frustration than is being expressed now

People keep saying that, but without the benefit of hindsight, how exactly was it different? Fans were calling for the heads of the GM and coach and some players (who turned out to be dynasty greats). Even Bossy and Trottier had a couple of mediocre playoffs the past two years - people around the league were starting to talk about Bossy as a regular season player. It was people having emotional reactions that ended up being wrong.

I congratulate you on your Zen-ness and inner peace or whatever. I mean that, but I don't have that gear.

There's no connection between what I'm saying and Zen or "gears".

 

[Cameraguy]

I'm sorry but you put a first year ever hockey coach to fill the shoes of Trots is close to impossible. He's going to make big mistakes, get out coached, relationship with the refs are new, talking to his players, the media about his team. I kind of feel bad for the guy. Lou thought hey you were there those 3 years should be fine. No Lou it's not and now you're stuck and you're going to fire him, he could have gone to Detroit.

It's not the players, the system is damaged.

 

[Tres Peleches]

They have a good core but lack a true sniper. Trade who you can for what you can (Mayfield, Varly, etc), fire Lambert into the sun and bring in a veteran coach who actually has a clue of what he’s doing and I think next year will be a big-time bounce back season

 

[LeapOnOver]

I'm sorry but you put a first year ever hockey coach to fill the shoes of Trots is close to impossible. He's going to make big mistakes, get out coached, relationship with the refs are new, talking to his players, the media about his team. I kind of feel bad for the guy. Lou thought hey you were there those 3 years should be fine. No Lou it's not and now you're stuck and you're going to fire him, he could have gone to Detroit.

It's not the players, the system is damaged.

Hmm, maybe because he thinks being an assistant coach for two decades would make you prepared for the position. I mean, you are talking about a guy who went from a Cape Cod Player / Coach to a math teacher, to a college hockey coach, to an athletic director to a college hockey commissioner to an NHL team president. The nerve to think a guy who grew and promoted his position throughout his life would think an assistant coach in the NHL with two decades of experience could handle the job.

The reality is, Lambert probably can handle the job, but just like any new job he'll need time to acclimate.

 

[steveat]

Any thoughts on trying to obtain Parayko (he's currently being shopped)? That would shore up our defence for a while and gives us a better defensive PK pairing Pelech/Parayko (sounds good..really good). Mayfield can move on...we need more freshness in our bottom pairings and hopefully, they move up. I don't want to be this team that keeps youth buried in the minors by bringing in outsiders.

My only question is how do we handle the cap when we still have to sign Dobson and Sorokin. Bailey has to go..Lee does as well..Horvat does what Lee does and is better at it.

I am on the fence about Pageau and Palmieri..I think we need Pageau and he has more years left, but Palmieri is so off and on it's not funny. He gets injured WAYYYY too much.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

How bad does Toronto want to get out of the first round? Mayfield and or Varly for starters. Two teams in both Edm and Tor who have stalled in the playoffs, up against the cap, and have a playoff window right now with their stars. Something like this should be explored. Plus, Mayfield knows the sweet spot on Kutcherov's lower back. That should account for something.

For certain, you have to wonder if Lou's ties, should he decide to go into sell mode, are strong enough with TOR. I mean, he made the Martin trade ASAP back in the day, but I have that feeling that the guys over there and Lou ain't the best of friends.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Future is not written. Say this team hits on an second rounder this year and maybe a third and fourth pan out the year after would you say the future is still bleak?

All is not lost.

Every pick can be a future NHLer or at least turn into a prospect good enough to become a tradeable asset.

There aren't many scouting staffs out there like ours that are only being given ~5 picks per summer, but I think our staff has been doing a fairly good job in light thereof.

But if looking at the draft historically, it's not a strategy to bank on.

SIDENOTE:
The comparably few draft picks we've had in recent years is not so much a problem, even if they give fans little to look forward to on draft weekend. What is - at least IMHO - a bit more disappointing is that we haven't been a team who signs many guys like college and CHL UFAs, much less U25 Europeans who are late bloomers on the side. Could be of no consequence, because how many actually turn into an NHLer or tradeable asset, but teams who moved a lot of their draft capital the past decade tend to do this a lot i.e. Tampa, Pittsburgh, Columbus, and San Jose.

This said, BPort and Worchester aren't lacking in bodies. On paper, both teams have a good balance of established players and guys who have NHL ambitions or prospect status.

A shame for us that none of Jenkins, Newkirk, and Adams have even become steady AHLers á la Koivula. A kid like MacLean has looked like a much more interesting 4th line option down the line than many of our own draftees.

 

[NC 1972]

Yes, but as per the point of the original post. If the majority of fans had their way… they would’ve dismantled BOTH teams.

I disagree, the team was in it's infancy in 1972 and I was at those games the majority of the sparse crowd in attendance knew almost nothing of hockey. I'd watch moms and dads drop their kids off and then head off to the track Roosevelt Raceway right down the road. It was painful listing to the uniformed newbie fans. It only took 8 years to win the cup and if they didn't take the Rangers lightly it would have been 7 and we cant forget early success of J.P. Parise beating the Rangers in OT!

 

[JPIsles18]

Said no hockey expert...ever. This is a terrible take. Bailey's just gotten old and can't keep up anymore as he was never quick to begin with. He's never had horrible hockey IQ, and he never will. That doesn't disintegrate. Your ability to do things at speed disintegrates with age. With this logic, we should assume that Michael Jordan was slow, Gretzky was a terrible passer, and Jagr couldn't shoot anymore. They just got older and lost their dominance. Before you fly off the handle and say Bailey was never dominant, that's obviously not my point. My point is he's always had a high hockey IQ. Nobody has ever said otherwise other than a few 'keyboard experts' in this forum. Everyone around Bailey daily and hockey experts with no skin in the game have consistently lauded his hockey IQ without debate. Even when I bashed Bailey (I was the one who coined the nickname Failey) I never criticized his hockey IQ.

What is hockey IQ?

 

[xECK29x]

What is hockey IQ?

Ability to read plays, follow breakouts, anticipation for passes, knowing when to shoot bs pass, looking for seems/openings, good decision making when to pinch offensively as a D, ability to folllow a complicated system etc.

 

[TeamKidd]

Ability to read plays, follow breakouts, anticipation for passes, knowing when to shoot bs pass, looking for seems/openings, good decision making when to pinch offensively as a D, ability to folllow a complicated system etc.

To me, it boils down to anticipation - being able to look at all the pieces on the chess board and decide in real time what the best move is (and then being able to accomplish it).

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

It’s hard to effectively retool when you give out NTCs like they're f***ing candy.

He's been giving them out like they're prerequisites for signing with the Islanders or something.

Which is shocking in light of how many free agents always wanna come here...

 

[IslesNorway]

Any thoughts on trying to obtain Parayko (he's currently being shopped)? That would shore up our defence for a while and gives us a better defensive PK pairing Pelech/Parayko (sounds good..really good). Mayfield can move on...we need more freshness in our bottom pairings and hopefully, they move up. I don't want to be this team that keeps youth buried in the minors by bringing in outsiders.

My only question is how do we handle the cap when we still have to sign Dobson and Sorokin. Bailey has to go..Lee does as well..Horvat does what Lee does and is better at it.

I am on the fence about Pageau and Palmieri..I think we need Pageau and he has more years left, but Palmieri is so off and on it's not funny. He gets injured WAYYYY too much.

Adding another endless deal to our books?? The Islanders cannot acquire anyone of notice until they have cleared two big contracts from their books and then we haven't got started on extensions for Sorokin and Dobson. That is problem with our GM handing out 7 and 8 year deals like candy. It cripples the organization and makes trades impossible,.

There is simply no point in talking about adding anyone who's not UFA to be until two of Lee/Palmieri/Bailey/Pageau are gone. And replacing them with another player on a multi year deal is silly.

Trading for Parayko? Sure, if they do Pulock straight up. That's the only plausible solution.

 

[Torrey Redux]

People keep saying that, but without the benefit of hindsight, how exactly was it different? Fans were calling for the heads of the GM and coach and some players (who turned out to be dynasty greats). Even Bossy and Trottier had a couple of mediocre playoffs the past two years - people around the league were starting to talk about Bossy as a regular season player. It was people having emotional reactions that ended up being wrong.



There's no connection between what I'm saying and Zen or "gears".

People keep saying it because that's how they remember it. What was happening then represented an unfinished upward trajectory while what's happening today represents an unacknowledged downward trajectory. Different kinds of frustration reacted to in a different way.

As to your final sentence, someone deciding to stay above the fray on an emotional issue (fandom is not a rational thing) says something about them. To me that requires a certain Zen-ness. No offense was intended.

 

[Mike C]

Hmm, maybe because he thinks being an assistant coach for two decades would make you prepared for the position. I mean, you are talking about a guy who went from a Cape Cod Player / Coach to a math teacher, to a college hockey coach, to an athletic director to a college hockey commissioner to an NHL team president. The nerve to think a guy who grew and promoted his position throughout his life would think an assistant coach in the NHL with two decades of experience could handle the job.

The reality is, Lambert probably can handle the job, but just like any new job he'll need time to acclimate.

Then maybe he should have been allowed to go to Detroit and handle it with a team younger and acclimating themselves vs a team where the expectation is success now and better results

 

[Mike C]

I'm sorry but you put a first year ever hockey coach to fill the shoes of Trots is close to impossible. He's going to make big mistakes, get out coached, relationship with the refs are new, talking to his players, the media about his team. I kind of feel bad for the guy. Lou thought hey you were there those 3 years should be fine. No Lou it's not and now you're stuck and you're going to fire him, he could have gone to Detroit.

It's not the players, the system is damaged.

He could have gone to Detroit anyway. Nobody forced him to take this job.

He knows what the job and it's expectation entails and is getting paid as handsomely as his wardrobe. Hard to feel sorry for a guy making millions and doing a mediocre job at best

 

[LBloor]

To me, it boils down to anticipation - being able to look at all the pieces on the chess board and decide in real time what the best move is (and then being able to accomplish it).

Used to be called Read and React skills

 

[ekill08x]

I'm sorry but you put a first year ever hockey coach to fill the shoes of Trots is close to impossible. He's going to make big mistakes, get out coached, relationship with the refs are new, talking to his players, the media about his team. I kind of feel bad for the guy. Lou thought hey you were there those 3 years should be fine. No Lou it's not and now you're stuck and you're going to fire him, he could have gone to Detroit.

It's not the players, the system is damaged.

Its not the players? Yeah I dont think I can disagree anymore. It is absolutely the players. The system was the only thing that masked their deficiencies. The players are flawed.

 

[xECK29x]

IF you guys already hate Pulock you will REALLY hate Parayko

 

[Doshell Propivo]

So lets continue to move all of our remaining prospects and draft picks for the slim hope of beating out the 4 other teams vying for a chance to get smacked by the Bruins.

I didn't say shit about moving our prospects.

We hate Pulock too now?

 

[ekill08x]

JGP on IR...another guy we should be looking to trade. This dude is good at faceoffs and for all the guys who do nothing else but bitch about Josh Bailey, they make the the exact same AAV. JGP is younger and has gotten just as much PP time if not more and honestly produces slightly less. For what we gave up, he has been a bust here. Move on and get a significantly cheaper 3C. Paying $5m for faceoffs and mediocre offensive production from both him and Bailey is a good reason why we are in this situation. Both need to go.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

Best thing about having a bare bones prospect list? Call up Andy Andreoff!!!!!

 

[Mike C]

I didn't say shit about moving our prospects.

We hate Pulock too now?

we hate everyone

 

[xECK29x]

Best thing about having a bare bones prospect list? Call up Andy Andreoff!!!!!

Good news. We’ll be picking fairly high this year!

 

[WangMustGo]

JGP on IR...another guy we should be looking to trade. This dude is good at faceoffs and for all the guys who do nothing else but bitch about Josh Bailey, they make the the exact same AAV. JGP is younger and has gotten just as much PP time if not more and honestly produces slightly less. For what we gave up, he has been a bust here. Move on and get a significantly cheaper 3C. Paying $5m for faceoffs and mediocre offensive production from both him and Bailey is a good reason why we are in this situation. Both need to go.

Bailey, JGP, Palmieri, and Lee all making a combined 22 million is a major problem. None of them are top line forwards and take up over 25% of the entire teams cap space. 42 goals combined between them for the season, its unacceptable.

For 22 million we should have atleast 1 superstar and 3 competent players.