Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Mr Misunderstood]

I wonder what a potential "rip it down to the studs" tear down roster would look like considering the guys you'd want to keep and those you'd have to (untradeable / NMC or NTC).

 

[CupHolders]

Johnston and Martin have the same limitations. But that’s not to mean they are interchangeable. Martin is clearly a more effective player.

But all-and-all, Johnston on or off the team is negligible and he’s not blocking prospects. Him getting 20-30 games is perfectly fine.

 

[Osakahaus]

I wonder what a potential "rip it down to the studs" tear down roster would look like considering the guys you'd want to keep and those you'd have to (untradeable / NMC or NTC).

Cory or Appleby as backup, lots of AHL crapper guys like Otto or Andreoff playing, and seeing them put Barzal with Bailey permanently. Its the main roster anyways.

 

[MJF]

I wonder what a potential "rip it down to the studs" tear down roster would look like considering the guys you'd want to keep and those you'd have to (untradeable / NMC or NTC).

It’s impossible to do something like that in this league. Contracts that have term are harder to move. Some players have to remain on the roster. There will never be a time where you can sweep everyone off the table and reboot except for one keeper, like in fantasy hockey.

That being said the Isles really should try to offload Palms, Martin, Clutter, Bailey, Beau, Pageau, Nelson if the price is right, Aho, one of Pulock or Mayfield, Varlamov if he won’t extend now for $2M or less, and Parise.

Did I leave anyone out?

 

[JPIsles18]

Sure, re-upping Barzal at that contract ties up the cap based on his performance just as much as the inherited Bailey contract.

Did DAL fire Jim Nil after their star players underperformed and were called out for not earning their salary? Nope, the owner stuck with the GM, his team did very well in one year of the draft - those players are excelling and pulling the team along. The changed the coach bc of an extenuating circumstance and again when thy elected not to sign his replacement.

Dobson has grown tremendously just like Lou predicted he would. But, what in the world has Wally done w/all his opportunities under two different coaches? Beau has underperformed for his salary, Barzal, well,
unless he learns to play a different way then you have Kovalev Part Deux on your hands, etc.

The Palms signing was to replace Eberle at a lower value for similar production when the cap was flat. How else were the Isles getting 25G? Looks
Like relying on the ‘guy the reason the Isles didn’t win the cup’ hasn’t done jack crap. Palms covered for Barzal’s craptastic play vs. PIT to get out of the first round. Now, the Isles are in the business of letting playoff performers walk? Good idea.

Lou resigned the 4th line, that may not have been wise, but it looks like he did that to be heavy in the playoffs and expected the rest of the forwards and defensemen to pull their weight.

Fans are back to Snow-style of building, staring at the waiver wire going ‘that guy will help’ each time. Remarkable.

This is an infuriating take. There are certain fans that will never hold Lou accountable. You are one of them.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, and I guess this is one.

1) Not understanding aging curves: Palmieri was on the decline when the Isles traded for him, and unfortunately the trend has continued. Who could have predicted a 29 year old with declining goal totals would continue to decline? It was a calculated move that has failed. 5 mil opportunity cost. This is on Lou. Same if this worked out, Lou would get credit. Don't give me the 'how else were we going to get 25 goals" garbage. This was a miscalculation on Lou's part.

2) Unable to understand need: We had 4 excellent defensemen. We lost Toews because Lou didn't know how good Toews was and didn't figure out how to keep him. We now have 3. Pelech, Pulock, and Dobson are legitimate top 4 dmen. How has he addressed it? Leddy in 2021. Chara in 2022. Romanov in 2023. None of these guys are true top 4 defensemen. He overpaid for Romanov who the organization is hoping will turn to one. He hasn't not yet. He's been much better over the last 20 games, but for a win now team, Romanov hasn't been a true top 4 dman. We needed an offensive dman to complement what we already had. While Romanov is a young player. He is extremely raw and does not move the needle at all for the Isles.

3) The 4th line is a disaster. The best 4th line in hockey is likely the worst 4th line in hockey now. You're giving him credit for doing this because he wanted to be "heavy?" Successful teams don't have "heavy" lines. They have good lines who happen to be heavy. Furthermore, the line continues to get important defensive zone starts against good players only to get pummeled and not get out of the zone continuously. But of course, the team will have a solution right? Nope, they keep going to the same ineffective well. They tried Cizikas on the wing, which was smart. However, when Clutter came back, there's no way we can keep them all apart! They put them back together with predictable shitty results. There is a ton of respect for these guys. They gave it their all, and the style of play destroys their bodies. Clearly Clutterbuck and Martin can no longer compete in the NHL. Why do we keep torturing them and the fans?

4) Lack of accountability amongst players: Bailey is no longer an NHL player. Look at Boston. Craig Smith has had a very similar career to Bailey's. Both pretty underrated during their careers. However, Smith has been terrible this season. Boston waived him and sent him down. He has since come back and been better, but they were unafraid to keep their veterans accountable. Bailey stunk last year too. They brought him back. He's in the top 6. How is this any different from Snow era lack of accountability?

5) The most fireable offense in my opinion is wasting a superstar goalie. It takes a special level of bad to be as inept as the Isles have been with a superstar goalie making 4 mil a year. Do you have any idea how bad a team has to be to be a bubble team with a goalie this good?


You bring up the Stars. They are not in the same boat. The Stars have Robertson and Heiskenen. They also get elite goaltending. We don't have a superstar forward and elite dman/goalie tandem. We are also in a much tougher division. Lou did not do enough to make this team better since taking over. Even the most biased fan cannot provide tangible evidence of objective improvement. Lou has changed the culture since taking over. Now it's time to move on to a GM that understands the modern game. A GM that acquires player based on ability and skill rather than familiarity and style of play.

 

[MarsTBOW]

5) The most fireable offense in my opinion is wasting a superstar goalie. It takes a special level of bad to be as inept as the Isles have been with a superstar goalie making 4 mil a year. Do you have any idea how bad a team has to be to be a bubble team with a goalie this good?

This This This

 

[JPIsles18]

I wonder what a potential "rip it down to the studs" tear down roster would look like considering the guys you'd want to keep and those you'd have to (untradeable / NMC or NTC).

I actually think that a lot of the surgery the Isles need to do are addition by subtraction:

- Bailey (5)
- Beauvillier (4.15)
- Clutterbuck (1.75)
- Martin (1.5)

Removing the above 4 players will immediately make us better. All 4 should be moveable given that they all have 1 season left after this one. That also frees up 12.4 mil. Assuming Varlamov is traded at the deadline, that gives us 17.4 freed cap.

I think the goal should be to free up as much as cap space as possible to make a run at Timo Meier. His acquisition cost should be a lot less than what a player of his ilk should be worth as his qualifying offer will be 10+. You can fill out the 4th line with some cheap players (Holmstrom, Fasching, etc)

I think that's the best way to go as this team can be re-tooled on the fly especially with an elite goaltender and a fairly good defense group. The forwards group is awful though, and can be improved on the fly if our underwhelming GM decides to move on from players that are no longer cutting it.

If the Isles decided to go on full rebuild mode, you can't do it with an elite goalie. They would have to trade Sorokin. I would hate to do that. I don't think it's necessary. But guys like Sorokin, Barzal, Nelson, Lee, Dobson, Pelech, Pulock are good enough to re-tool on the fly.

I just have no faith in Lou doing this correctly. Or anything at all.

 

[Osakahaus]

This is an infuriating take. There are certain fans that will never hold Lou accountable. You are one of them.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, and I guess this is one.

1) Not understanding aging curves: Palmieri was on the decline when the Isles traded for him, and unfortunately the trend has continued. Who could have predicted a 29 year old with declining goal totals would continue to decline? It was a calculated move that has failed. 5 mil opportunity cost. This is on Lou. Same if this worked out, Lou would get credit. Don't give me the 'how else were we going to get 25 goals" garbage. This was a miscalculation on Lou's part.

2) Unable to understand need: We had 4 excellent defensemen. We lost Toews because Lou didn't know how good Toews was and didn't figure out how to keep him. We now have 3. Pelech, Pulock, and Dobson are legitimate top 4 dmen. How has he addressed it? Leddy in 2021. Chara in 2022. Romanov in 2023. None of these guys are true top 4 defensemen. He overpaid for Romanov who the organization is hoping will turn to one. He hasn't not yet. He's been much better over the last 20 games, but for a win now team, Romanov hasn't been a true top 4 dman. We needed an offensive dman to complement what we already had. While Romanov is a young player. He is extremely raw and does not move the needle at all for the Isles.

3) The 4th line is a disaster. The best 4th line in hockey is likely the worst 4th line in hockey now. You're giving him credit for doing this because he wanted to be "heavy?" Successful teams don't have "heavy" lines. They have good lines who happen to be heavy. Furthermore, the line continues to get important defensive zone starts against good players only to get pummeled and not get out of the zone continuously. But of course, the team will have a solution right? Nope, they keep going to the same ineffective well. They tried Cizikas on the wing, which was smart. However, when Clutter came back, there's no way we can keep them all apart! They put them back together with predictable shitty results. There is a ton of respect for these guys. They gave it their all, and the style of play destroys their bodies. Clearly Clutterbuck and Martin can no longer compete in the NHL. Why do we keep torturing them and the fans?

4) Lack of accountability amongst players: Bailey is no longer an NHL player. Look at Boston. Craig Smith has had a very similar career to Bailey's. Both pretty underrated during their careers. However, Smith has been terrible this season. Boston waived him and sent him down. He has since come back and been better, but they were unafraid to keep their veterans accountable. Bailey stunk last year too. They brought him back. He's in the top 6. How is this any different from Snow era lack of accountability?

5) The most fireable offense in my opinion is wasting a superstar goalie. It takes a special level of bad to be as inept as the Isles have been with a superstar goalie making 4 mil a year. Do you have any idea how bad a team has to be to be a bubble team with a goalie this good?


You bring up the Stars. They are not in the same boat. The Stars have Robertson and Heiskenen. They also get elite goaltending. We don't have a superstar forward and elite dman/goalie tandem. We are also in a much tougher division. Lou did not do enough to make this team better since taking over. Even the most biased fan cannot provide tangible evidence of objective improvement. Lou has changed the culture since taking over. Now it's time to move on to a GM that understands the modern game. A GM that acquires player based on ability and skill rather than familiarity and style of play.

These three takes are what make me unhappy with Lamoriello the most. How do you not see that this team needs offense, and continue to add in defensemen? I remember during the draft day, we all wanted to take a defenseman but Lamoriello trades a first rounder for Romanov. No offense to Romanov but he is simply not doing well in a system that's making him play stupid. He's also taking really stupid penalties at the worst of moments. They badly need to get better, and I liked wotherspoon when he's playing. Why couldn't we draft Bichel? He's massive, and has the same potential as Adam Pelech? The isles really threw everything out once Mintyukov went off the table? If so, thats extremely awful by Lamoriello. Hell, they could've reached on Gaucher, it would've been perfectly fine!

the 4th line is abysmal now, and its actually hilarious seeing how much better cizikas is as a winger now than a center. Clutterbuck is way too injured now. He's not doing anything at all and hasn't been useful since 2021. Martin is much the same, and Its even more infuriating watching the plug of Ross Johnston. Btw Lamoriello signed him for 4 years. why? because don't question product just consume. Hell, I'd actually say its even worse whenever the isles deploy these guys out against a top line, because they'll get beaten or take a stupid penalty. Its not healthy for a team. This also follows up into the next point.

There is zero accountability whenever watching these interviews. Lee looks like a shell of himself. Bailey is absolutely awful this season, forget anything about the whole "Josh Bailey bad" debate, he is flat out awful. Beau looks inconsistent as ever and still looks overpaid. Palmieri is almost a no show and pulled a Jason Bay. Noah Dobson is an absolute liability on the power play. The less we talk about Pulock the better. Brock Nelson is on a watch list, because I haven't seen or heard him in ages. All star with a 12 game goalless drought is peak islanders, even though Barzal has been a "better" player. There are few players who have given it their all this season for a full 60, and that belongs to the goalies. every forward and defenseman has been winging it. And this all falls under our GM. For someone who is respectable, I would've expected more deals to improve a team. After all, Lamoriello isn't too far away from being put in a retirement home. He's made trades that work more in the now, rather than long term. Its why we've lost out on guys like Ridley Greig, Zach Dean, Rutger McGroarty, etc. Everything that we've gotten to now is in the hands of Lamoriello, but he refuses to admit failure.

Also, Dallas has the balls to play youth. They have the balls to play guys like Wyatt Johnston and Jason Robertson, and they both look amazing. They finally allowed Jake Oettengier to start, and he's become one of the best American goalies since Ryan Miller. They actually spend in free agency and still find results. Where the hell is that for the islanders? Ledecky cares more about his olympic swimmer than the ice hockey team still struggling to find a good free agent since Mikhail Grabovski.

 

[The Real JT]

Untouchables
T. Zegras
T. Terry
M. McTavish
J. Drysdale
1 round pick 2023

Everyone else is fair game? What would you get for some of the players on the ducks?

The above is the OP on the main board regarding proposals for an Anaheim fire sale at the TDL.

It gave me pause to say now what I’ve been reluctant to post previously.

Look at all the bottom dwelling teams and even they have a few prized players like us. Unlike most of them we are fortunate to have a stud goalie but otherwise our talent level is in the bottom half of the league. Trotz got the most out of them and almost nothing’s been added over the last 2 years while our competitors have retooled and rebuilt.

I’m still hoping for the best but expecting far less. Sorry.

 

[doublechili]

this has been said for like four years. they refused to ever get more LHD.

I know. I was saying they needed LHD when they had Leddy and Toews....

 

[The Real JT]

That being said the Isles really should try to offload Palms, Martin, Clutter, Bailey, Beau, Pageau, Nelson if the price is right, Aho, one of Pulock or Mayfield, Varlamov if he won’t extend now for $2M or less, and Parise.

Did I leave anyone out?

Lou?

 

[SI]

This is not a tear-down situation, but adjustments need to be made.

Let's clear up some shit -
The Metro is super competitive, so playing under 600 hockey is not getting you in the playoffs.
The 4th is not brutal and not the problem - this team cannot score.
The 4th line costs under 6m against the cap and two of those members are why this team is so successful on the PK, when PP success this year have gone thru the roof.

The Toews trade was a bad move and has lingering impacts today.
There is still a lot to like on this roster and pieces to build around.
If they cannot keep pace, then it may be best to recoup some draft capital and create more cap space to attack the off-season with.

The 11-game stretch I highlighted now has 8 games left - the Isles are 1-1-1.
I predicted they would go 6-5-1 and that won't be enough.
Let's see how these games shake out.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

I am so tired of watching a team year after year after year that changes nothing, makes no additions and yet has the same problem, they cannot score goals. It is infuriating. These last 2 weeks I basically have the games on just as background noise while doing other things. It is not enjoyable to watch a team that struggles to score two goals. TWO goals is a GOOD night for this team right now. How does this team have the same problem every single year.

 

[Osakahaus]

This is not a tear-down situation, but adjustments need to be made.

Let's clear up some shit -
The Metro is super competitive, so playing under 600 hockey is not getting you in the playoffs.
The 4th is not brutal and not the problem - this team cannot score.
The 4th line costs under 6m against the cap and two of those members are why this team is so successful on the PK, when PP success this year have gone thru the roof.

The Toews trade was a bad move and has lingering impacts today.
There is still a lot to like on this roster and pieces to build around.
If they cannot keep pace, then it may be best to recoup some draft capital and create more cap space to attack the off-season with.

The 11-game stretch I highlighted now has 8 games left - the Isles are 1-1-1.
I predicted they would go 6-5-1 and that won't be enough.
Let's see how these games shake out.

if they can beat the leafs, caps, sabres, canes, leafs, wings, and flyers, they still are in it. If they lose? then it becomes a matter of selling just enough to have hope for next season. Honestly if they can beat the capitals, things can get interesting. Our offense just needs to stop being stiff, because if we even go down by two it feels impossible.

but this is all for lamoriello to decide. either jump from the deep end, or get off the board in shame.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Could NYI have claimed Tolvanan? Could really use a pure shooter right now, and he would've been free.

 

[TheWhiteWhale30]

Kudos to those who bandwagoned that Covid , the road trip, injuries, etc masked the problems last season. I wasn't sold on that theory. Time has swayed my thinking!

That all was still very much an issue. Everyone is also now a year old and we were doing just fine until Pelech went down. Him Barzy and Sorokin would be the biggest issue with an injury. Anyone else they can survive.. Pelech is a huge loss. Think we’re like 17-11 before his injury and are 5-6-3 since. Need him back and into form asap

 

[LeapOnOver]

Could NYI have claimed Tolvanan? Could really use a pure shooter right now, and he would've been free.

At the cost of who? Who do you put on waivers when everyone is healthy? Fasching can play anywhere in the lineup... not sure i want Tolvanen over him.

 

[xECK29x]

At the cost of who? Who do you put on waivers when everyone is healthy? Fasching can play anywhere in the lineup... not sure i want Tolvanen over him.

Anyone who cares. How about Ross f***ing Johnston?

 

[crashthenet]

Not sure why would need a complete tear down.
Sorokin
Pelech Pulock
Dobson Romanov
Barzal Nelson Lee JGP Zeke
As core
Wally Palmieri and potentially Parise
Good enough to be in the top nine.

 

[TeamKidd]

Sell all but sorokin, barzal, top4 D...good building blocks but everyone else should be considered if it brings back an asset or can be moved for a nominal price and cap relief....This draft could catapult us back to winning fast with several top 2 round selections...especially with one LEGIT FA signing goal scorer.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

At the cost of who? Who do you put on waivers when everyone is healthy? Fasching can play anywhere in the lineup... not sure i want Tolvanen over him.

Now we are concerned about keeping Hudson Fasching in the lineup? Are we serious? If we can acquire a Horvat or Meier or Tarasenko, should we not because Hudson Fasching can play anywhere?

On a different note, what is going on with Brock Nelson? This is the worst 12 game stretch I have seen him play in years. He just looks lost and he might be the one player I have not said that about once in about 3-4 years.

 

[leeroggy]

Everyone!!

Please step AWAY from the edge of the platform, the train is delayed. Jets 3 Pens 1 after 2.

I repeat. Please step AWAY from the edge!

Mind the Gap!

 

[PK Cronin]

I am so tired of watching a team year after year after year that changes nothing, makes no additions and yet has the same problem, they cannot score goals. It is infuriating. These last 2 weeks I basically have the games on just as background noise while doing other things. It is not enjoyable to watch a team that struggles to score two goals. TWO goals is a GOOD night for this team right now. How does this team have the same problem every single year.

The results are similar for sure but they changed a decent amount.

Trotz was replaced.
The system was replaced.
Chara was replaced.
Greene was replaced.
The you players have been given more time to play too.

It's time for the coaching staff and management to recognize what we all know. The team is lacking the talent to score goals at a higher clip, it's not a systems issue. So many people are thought the issue was Trotz and his love affair with defense, but it's not.

Komarov on the top line looks a whole lot better these days than it did back when everyone was crying about it. Trotz knew the team couldn't score no matter what and it was best to try and lock everything down.

 

[PK Cronin]

Now we are concerned about keeping Hudson Fasching in the lineup? Are we serious? If we can acquire a Horvat or Meier or Tarasenko, should we not because Hudson Fasching can play anywhere?

On a different note, what is going on with Brock Nelson? This is the worst 12 game stretch I have seen him play in years. He just looks lost and he might be the one player I have not said that about once in about 3-4 years.

No, he's concerned about taking waiver pickups to replace our own players that we'd lose to waivers. That's not quite the same thing as being concerned about Johnston's spot when adding a top tier talent.

 

[MJF]

Komarov on the top line looks a whole lot better these days than it did back when everyone was crying about it. Trotz knew the team couldn't score no matter what and it was best to try and lock everything down.

Dead on balls accurate.