Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[The Lighthouse]

Trotz knew the team couldn't score no matter what and it was best to try and lock everything down.

Of course, it was only because he hated

Wally
Ho-Sang

Insert any favorite current prospect here.

 

[Osakahaus]

Could NYI have claimed Tolvanan? Could really use a pure shooter right now, and he would've been free.

yes. They could've claimed Tolvanen, and Lamoriello didn't want to admit failure. gotta love our GM!

Of course, it was only because he hated

Wally
Ho-Sang

Insert any favorite current prospect here.

Ehhhh I think Raty or Dufour have a place here at least. Not a big fan of Ishakov but thats because he's a really small centerman.

 

[The Lighthouse]

yes. They could've claimed Tolvanen, and Lamoriello didn't want to admit failure. gotta love our GM!


Ehhhh I think Raty or Dufour have a place here at least. Not a big fan of Ishakov but thats because he's a really small centerman.

Wasn't a statement on the value of any of these guys, just on the notion that Trotz hated youngsters and therefore was holding the team back.

 

[Mike C]

That all was still very much an issue. Everyone is also now a year old and we were doing just fine until Pelech went down. Him Barzy and Sorokin would be the biggest issue with an injury. Anyone else they can survive.. Pelech is a huge loss. Think we’re like 17-11 before his injury and are 5-6-3 since. Need him back and into form asap

All fair. Even with Pelech we were hovering around 7/8. I always have thought 50/50 for the playoffs. I'm not sold on Pitt. A productive Palmieri might just make the difference. I'd much rather get in than not but not at the expense of trading where it would hamstring the future

 

[Osakahaus]

Wasn't a statement on the value of any of these guys, just on the notion that Trotz hated youngsters and therefore was holding the team back.

Then absolutely fair. Ho-Sang wasn't that great and i'm not a big Wahlstrom fan. He's just such a detractor with Barzal because of how slow he skates.

 

[Throttle]

This is an infuriating take. There are certain fans that will never hold Lou accountable. You are one of them.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, and I guess this is one.

1) Not understanding aging curves: Palmieri was on the decline when the Isles traded for him, and unfortunately the trend has continued. Who could have predicted a 29 year old with declining goal totals would continue to decline? It was a calculated move that has failed. 5 mil opportunity cost. This is on Lou. Same if this worked out, Lou would get credit. Don't give me the 'how else were we going to get 25 goals" garbage. This was a miscalculation on Lou's part.

2) Unable to understand need: We had 4 excellent defensemen. We lost Toews because Lou didn't know how good Toews was and didn't figure out how to keep him. We now have 3. Pelech, Pulock, and Dobson are legitimate top 4 dmen. How has he addressed it? Leddy in 2021. Chara in 2022. Romanov in 2023. None of these guys are true top 4 defensemen. He overpaid for Romanov who the organization is hoping will turn to one. He hasn't not yet. He's been much better over the last 20 games, but for a win now team, Romanov hasn't been a true top 4 dman. We needed an offensive dman to complement what we already had. While Romanov is a young player. He is extremely raw and does not move the needle at all for the Isles.

3) The 4th line is a disaster. The best 4th line in hockey is likely the worst 4th line in hockey now. You're giving him credit for doing this because he wanted to be "heavy?" Successful teams don't have "heavy" lines. They have good lines who happen to be heavy. Furthermore, the line continues to get important defensive zone starts against good players only to get pummeled and not get out of the zone continuously. But of course, the team will have a solution right? Nope, they keep going to the same ineffective well. They tried Cizikas on the wing, which was smart. However, when Clutter came back, there's no way we can keep them all apart! They put them back together with predictable shitty results. There is a ton of respect for these guys. They gave it their all, and the style of play destroys their bodies. Clearly Clutterbuck and Martin can no longer compete in the NHL. Why do we keep torturing them and the fans?

4) Lack of accountability amongst players: Bailey is no longer an NHL player. Look at Boston. Craig Smith has had a very similar career to Bailey's. Both pretty underrated during their careers. However, Smith has been terrible this season. Boston waived him and sent him down. He has since come back and been better, but they were unafraid to keep their veterans accountable. Bailey stunk last year too. They brought him back. He's in the top 6. How is this any different from Snow era lack of accountability?

5) The most fireable offense in my opinion is wasting a superstar goalie. It takes a special level of bad to be as inept as the Isles have been with a superstar goalie making 4 mil a year. Do you have any idea how bad a team has to be to be a bubble team with a goalie this good?


You bring up the Stars. They are not in the same boat. The Stars have Robertson and Heiskenen. They also get elite goaltending. We don't have a superstar forward and elite dman/goalie tandem. We are also in a much tougher division. Lou did not do enough to make this team better since taking over. Even the most biased fan cannot provide tangible evidence of objective improvement. Lou has changed the culture since taking over. Now it's time to move on to a GM that understands the modern game. A GM that acquires player based on ability and skill rather than familiarity and style of play.

1, For a numbers guy, Palms was not declining. He was averaging 20-25G per season. He was on a terrible lotto team when he was acquired. He was a unanimous top 10 UFA signing for that offseason - the one with a flat cap and an expansion team flush with cash to outbid other teams if they wanted to. Where were the Isles recovering 25Gs from? (You don’t have an answer or are we still waiting on Wally to take that role? Good luck)

2, Oh brother, give it up on Toews, countless people have already elaborated on that situation due to the COVID crunch. That seems to routinely escape you. Also, if you watched the games that season, it was clear Trotz preferred Leddy over Toews due to Toews defensive weaknesses. Also, Lou reserved money for two critical RFA signings that are gonna bite this franchise badly: Barzal and Pulock. So-called franchise building blocks that are gonna be stumbling blocks with those contracts. Maybe Lou should have paid less for Barzal and Pulock and could’ve kept Toews, but gotta pay ice capades to tilt and twirl. Btw, didn’t the Isles make the conference finals the following season w/o Toews? Sure, I’d rather have Toews than Pulock right now, the game is also different right now.

3, The fourth line has declined, Trotz rolled 4 lines that resulted in playoff success. If some of the other prospects/invested in players excelled, then the 4th line gets reduced minutes, but that hasn’t happened. The cap space allocated to these guys is pretty small.

4, Did Sweeney scratch the player? Or Montgomery? Seems like Bailey had been scratched? Has Barzal been scratched? Pulock? Scratching scrubs and prospects, how original.

5, He’s wasting a superstar goalie? What hardware does he have? ASG appearances? He’s an elite goalie, but this is truly his first season taking the reigns. Lou plugged a hole on D in the offseason, but you don’t like that deal because it should have used for something else. Part of Romanov is also that he’s cost controlled…That’s ok, except A LOT of the something else requires cap space that a majority of the league doesn’t have, so those players ended up on lotto teams (OTT and ok, LAK made the playoffs unexpectedly mainly bc Vegas crapped the bed, but they were in lotto land and had the cap space bc of it, CLB, SEA, etc. Notice a trend on who has the money? FL found money, made moves, how’s that working out?).

Dumping players with salary and term is extremely difficult, what teams are doing this without attaching significant assets?

Fire Lou, fail for nail, bring back Loudville, and let’s see how it goes.

 

[JPIsles18]

At the cost of who? Who do you put on waivers when everyone is healthy? Fasching can play anywhere in the lineup... not sure i want Tolvanen over him.

The fact that we're even asking this question goes to show you what a country club this has become. There are fans legitimately asking who would actually be waived on this team. This is a team with Bailey, Clutterbuck, Martin, Johnston, (Beauviller too, but he actually has trade value). We have absolutely no sense of reality anymore.

But you're actually right. This team would be fast to move Fasching down because he wasn't on the team two years ago when they made the playoffs last. Under Lou, you buy yourself at least 3-5 years once you make it past the first round. Must be nice to coast. These players need to shave, but don't actually have to play well.

 

[Osakahaus]

The fact that we're even asking this question goes to show you what a country club this has become. There are fans legitimately asking who would actually be waived on this team. This is a team with Bailey, Clutterbuck, Martin, Johnston, (Beauviller too, but he actually has trade value). We have absolutely no sense of reality anymore.

But you're actually right. This team would be fast to move Fasching down because he wasn't on the team two years ago when they made the playoffs last. Under Lou, you buy yourself at least 3-5 years once you make it past the first round. Must be nice to coast. These players need to shave, but don't actually have to play well.

The fact that nobody said we could just waive Ross or Martin down is baffling. Those guys have been absolutely awful to say the least. Ross in general has to be the worst player in hockey right now.

 

[Mike C]

The fact that we're even asking this question goes to show you what a country club this has become. There are fans legitimately asking who would actually be waived on this team. This is a team with Bailey, Clutterbuck, Martin, Johnston, (Beauviller too, but he actually has trade value). We have absolutely no sense of reality anymore.

But you're actually right. This team would be fast to move Fasching down because he wasn't on the team two years ago when they made the playoffs last. Under Lou, you buy yourself at least 3-5 years once you make it past the first round. Must be nice to coast. These players need to shave, but don't actually have to play well.

If you're into transcendental meditation the mantra is "tight core, great group of guys" tight core great group of guys"

15 minutes 3 times a day followed by a cup of Kool-Aid.

Gotta go change into my purple shrouds and lay down, the comet is coming!!

 

[JPIsles18]

1, For a numbers guy, Palms was not declining. He was averaging 20-25G per season. He was on a terrible lotto team when he was acquired. He was a unanimous top 10 UFA signing for that offseason - the one with a flat cap and an expansion team flush with cash to outbid other teams if they wanted to. Where were the Isles recovering 25Gs from? (You don’t have an answer or are we still waiting on Wally to take that role? Good luck)

2, Oh brother, give it up on Toews, countless people have already elaborated on that situation due to the COVID crunch. That seems to routinely escape you. Also, if you watched the games that season, it was clear Trotz preferred Leddy over Toews due to Toews defensive weaknesses. Also, Lou reserved money for two critical RFA signings that are gonna bite this franchise badly: Barzal and Pulock. So-called franchise building blocks that are gonna be stumbling blocks with those contracts. Maybe Lou should have paid less for Barzal and Pulock and could’ve kept Toews, but gotta pay ice capades to tilt and twirl. Btw, didn’t the Isles make the conference finals the following season w/o Toews? Sure, I’d rather have Toews than Pulock right now, the game is also different right now.

3, The fourth line has declined, Trotz rolled 4 lines that resulted in playoff success. If some of the other prospects/invested in players excelled, then the 4th line gets reduced minutes, but that hasn’t happened. The cap space allocated to these guys is pretty small.

4, Did Sweeney scratch the player? Or Montgomery? Seems like Bailey had been scratched? Has Barzal been scratched? Pulock? Scratching scrubs and prospects, how original.

5, He’s wasting a superstar goalie? What hardware does he have? ASG appearances? He’s an elite goalie, but this is truly his first season taking the reigns. Lou plugged a hole on D in the offseason, but you don’t like that deal because it should have used for something else. Part of Romanov is also that he’s cost controlled…That’s ok, except A LOT of the something else requires cap space that a majority of the league doesn’t have, so those players ended up on lotto teams (OTT and ok, LAK made the playoffs unexpectedly mainly bc Vegas crapped the bed, but they were in lotto land and had the cap space bc of it, CLB, SEA, etc. Notice a trend on who has the money? FL found money, made moves, how’s that working out?).

Dumping players with salary and term is extremely difficult, what teams are doing this without attaching significant assets?

Fire Lou, fail for nail, bring back Loudville, and let’s see how it goes.

All I read are excuses for bad personnel decisions. The funny thing is the ones you criticize are the good ones. Barzal is a true top line center. He's a play driver and one of the best passers in the league. Take him off this team and see what happens.

Also, bringing up ASG and hardware for goaltending or any player is one of the dumbest arguments. I refuse to even address it. Embarrassing point.

Other teams' GMs have done better than Lou. Much better actually. It's ok to admit that. I'm sure that won't change how much he cares about you.

They waived Smith. Not just scratched him. They waived him. That's how good professional organizations function.

The whole league views the Isles as one of the least talented teams. They at least used to be hard to play against. That's not even true anymore. The other teams that try to be less talented are actually tanking for generational players. Instead we have a GM more interested in acquiring players he is familiar with rather than those that are good.

Furthermore, on the Toews front. I understand the COVID thing. I still think it's inexcusable with how they thought Toews was expendable instead of figuring out a way to keep them. A good GM would have found a way. There's always a way. Bottom line is that Lou/Trotz didn't understand how good Toews was/is. That was the failure.

The lack of valuing skill continues to hurt the Isles. Picking Leddy over Toews. Picking Palmieri over Eberle. Thinking the 4th line is still good. Thinking Bailey is still an NHL player. Enough is enough. There are very slim margins when your team is aging and have a ton of long contracts. Lou needs to do a better job of talent evaluation and projection. It hasn't been good. There's been no accountability.

Just like somebody has to keep you accountable for your Lou worship.

 

[Throttle]

All I read are excuses for bad personnel decisions. The funny thing is the ones you criticize are the good ones. Barzal is a true top line center. He's a play driver and one of the best passers in the league. Take him off this team and see what happens.

Also, bringing up ASG and hardware for goaltending or any player is one of the dumbest arguments. I refuse to even address it. Embarrassing point.

Other teams' GMs have done better than Lou. Much better actually. It's ok to admit that. I'm sure that won't change how much he cares about you.

They waived Smith. Not just scratched him. They waived him. That's how good professional organizations function.

The whole league views the Isles as one of the least talented teams. They at least used to be hard to play against. That's not even true anymore. The other teams that try to be less talented are actually tanking for generational players. Instead we have a GM more interested in acquiring players he is familiar with rather than those that are good.

Furthermore, on the Toews front. I understand the COVID thing. I still think it's inexcusable with how they thought Toews was expendable instead of figuring out a way to keep them. A good GM would have found a way. There's always a way. Bottom line is that Lou/Trotz didn't understand how good Toews was/is. That was the failure.

The lack of valuing skill continues to hurt the Isles. Picking Leddy over Toews. Picking Palmieri over Eberle. Thinking the 4th line is still good. Thinking Bailey is still an NHL player. Enough is enough. There are very slim margins when your team is aging and have a ton of long contracts. Lou needs to do a better job of talent evaluation and projection. It hasn't been good. There's been no accountability.

Just like somebody has to keep you accountable for your Lou worship.

Stopped at 3 sentence. The rest, whatever it is, fails from there.

 

[Osakahaus]

The lack of valuing skill continues to hurt the Isles. Picking Leddy over Toews. Picking Palmieri over Eberle. Thinking the 4th line is still good. Thinking Bailey is still an NHL player. Enough is enough. There are very slim margins when your team is aging and have a ton of long contracts. Lou needs to do a better job of talent evaluation and projection. It hasn't been good. There's been no accountability.

Just like somebody has to keep you accountable for your Lou worship.

I think we can also just name all the skilled players on our hand ever since lamoriello came over. Our bigger problems start to come with things like special teams, shootouts, dogfight games, etc. The isles cannot win a game if they have to score more than three goals, because it just pressures them to keep pinching in. They can't win a shootout because every shooter has the same easy move. They're a lunchpail team and its getting worse because you've only added pageau, wahlstrom, romanov, aho, and palmieri to this mess. Holmstrom is way too young and can't shoot either. Its just not good. Since 2019, they're an astounding 14 wins 19 losses during the shootout, but have lost ELEVEN of the past thirteen shootouts. that isn't good. thats a lot of missing points.

hell, the isles could've taken a risk by trading away bailey, or beau, or even pageau. they just didn't. the entire fact that they operate like a family is extremely worrying, because you can't do anything to break that. Some of these players are so bad, but the locker room needs it.

 

[Mike C]

The fact that nobody said we could just waive Ross or Martin down is baffling. Those guys have been absolutely awful to say the least. Ross in general has to be the worst player in hockey right now.

You're not getting it. Let's try this. I'll do it too. Ready? We're gonna bang our heels together like we're Dorothy Gale. 3 times loud, eyes squeezed shut tight as a clam"s ass.

"Identity, best 4th line in hockey"
"Identity, best 4th line in hockey"
"Identity, best 4th line in hockey "


We home yet???

 

[Osakahaus]

You're not getting it. Let's try this. I'll do it too. Ready? We're gonna bang our heels together like we're Dorothy Gale. 3 times loud, eyes squeezed shut tight as a clam"s ass.

"Identity, best 4th line in hockey"
"Identity, best 4th line in hockey"
"Identity, best 4th line in hockey "


We home yet???

there's a meme of STR vs DEX and the person with DEX says "i'll surely win because my DEX is better"

this is where the isles are. i just don't think that the 4th line has the same effect as it did in like 2019-2021. we'll be running circles in our own zone with zeek-clutter-martin, but lamoriello cannot look at the team with a straight face saying they're the best 4th line, after watching what the bolts have done with bellemare-namesnekov-perry. that's a good 4th line even with age. same for the avalanche last season.

 

[Mike C]

I think we can also just name all the skilled players on our hand ever since lamoriello came over. Our bigger problems start to come with things like special teams, shootouts, dogfight games, etc. The isles cannot win a game if they have to score more than three goals, because it just pressures them to keep pinching in. They can't win a shootout because every shooter has the same easy move. They're a lunchpail team and its getting worse because you've only added pageau, wahlstrom, romanov, aho, and palmieri to this mess. Holmstrom is way too young and can't shoot either. Its just not good. Since 2019, they're an astounding 14 wins 19 losses during the shootout, but have lost ELEVEN of the past thirteen shootouts. that isn't good. thats a lot of missing points.

hell, the isles could've taken a risk by trading away bailey, or beau, or even pageau. they just didn't. the entire fact that they operate like a family is extremely worrying, because you can't do anything to break that. Some of these players are so bad, but the locker room needs it.

I call BS on that family jive. It's a nice feel good like saying Barry stepped away

When Kirk Gibson joined the Dodgers, he bashed the radio 1st day of spring training and told the team they weren't good enough and deserving to be shakin' it down hands in the air, to this loud garbage. Then he asked if anyone wanted to make an issue of it

I'd rather have the team brawling it out in the locker room and a leader with an I don't give a shit about anything but winning attitude.

Culture here needs to be changed

 

[Mike C]

there's a meme of STR vs DEX and the person with DEX says "i'll surely win because my DEX is better"

this is where the isles are. i just don't think that the 4th line has the same effect as it did in like 2019-2021. we'll be running circles in our own zone with zeek-clutter-martin, but lamoriello cannot look at the team with a straight face saying they're the best 4th line, after watching what the bolts have done with bellemare-namesnekov-perry. that's a good 4th line even with age. same for the avalanche last season.

Like the name by the way....Osaka is the name of my favorite sushi joint here in Charlotte

 

[MJF]

ones. Barzal is a true top line center. He's a play driver and one of the best passers in the league. Take him off this team and see what happens.

No he isn’t. He’s one of the best skaters in the league with great edges, but a flawed center who overcomplicates his game.

As for where we are now versus where we’d be without Barzal? Well there’s really not much difference today. We’re not in great shape with him here. And this is Year 7 of Barzal’s time on the Island.

 

[Mike C]

No he isn’t. He’s one of the best skaters in the league with great edges, but a flawed center who overcomplicates his game.

As for where we are now versus where we’d be without Barzal? Well there’s really not much difference today. We’re not in great shape with him here. And this is Year 7 of Barzal’s time on the Island.

At least we're in the hunt. Last year entering 15 Jan, we were 5 points in last and 11 off the wild card

#unleashed!!

 

[The Lighthouse]

At least we're in the hunt. Last year entering 15 Jan, we were 5 points in last and 11 off the wild card

#unleashed!!

As much as the Islanders haven't been too hot lately, can only imagine what's going on over on the Pitt forums. 2 games in hand, 1 point back, but 2-6-2 in last 10. That's a big assist.

 

[Osakahaus]

As much as the Islanders haven't been too hot lately, can only imagine what's going on over on the Pitt forums. 2 games in hand, 1 point back, but 2-6-2 in last 10. That's a big assist.

I think pittsburgh hasn't reached THAT gear yet. Guentzel has been quiet as well, and whenever he scores that team goes.

 

[Mike C]

As much as the Islanders haven't been too hot lately, can only imagine what's going on over on the Pitt forums. 2 games in hand, 1 point back, but 2-6-2 in last 10. That's a big assist.

I try and stay off other team's boards. I get penalty minutes when I venture away from home

Speaking of which, the Mrs. asked if I wanted coffee before, where's Mr.Smith now????

My kid, first place Tommy Dark Horse would even fetch him a cup....just out of politeness

 

[gordie43]

“I think pittsburgh hasn't reached THAT gear yet. Guentzel has been quiet as well, and whenever he scores that team goes.”


They had quite a run a couple of weeks ago which put them in good position. Isles need to make up some ground while Jarry is out.

 

[TheWhiteWhale30]

All fair. Even with Pelech we were hovering around 7/8. I always have thought 50/50 for the playoffs. I'm not sold on Pitt. A productive Palmieri might just make the difference. I'd much rather get in than not but not at the expense of trading where it would hamstring the future

I hear ya but a trade like Meier makes the whole lineup deeper by pushing everyone down and makes the powerplay better and Barzal more of a threat by giving him space. It should in theory makes this team more than just a few points better. At this point if Wally Beau and a 1st gets it’s done you do it imo. Beau is replaceable the late 1st could nothing and Meier is more than Wally would ever be. Not really losing much future imo. Even if it costs a 1st, 2nd and Räty you do it imo. Räty projects to be a 2C, those aren’t hard to obtain in 3-5 years when Nelly slows down. The 1st line wing is hard to get… I mean we can’t draft one to save our lives lol how to just go and get one instead

 

[Mike C]

I hear ya but a trade like Meier makes the whole lineup deeper by pushing everyone down and makes the powerplay better and Barzal more of a threat by giving him space. It should in theory makes this team more than just a few points better. At this point if Wally Beau and a 1st gets it’s done you do it imo. Beau is replaceable the late 1st could nothing and Meier is more than Wally would ever be. Not really losing much future imo. Even if it costs a 1st, 2nd and Räty you do it imo. Räty projects to be a 2C, those aren’t hard to obtain in 3-5 years when Nelly slows down. The 1st line wing is hard to get… I mean we can’t draft one to save our lives lol how to just go and get one instead

I'm ok with that. You think meier would extend/ re-sign here?

 

[Lights911]

Stopped at 3 sentence. The rest, whatever it is, fails from there.

Impossible to have a back and forth with someone who refuses to recognize any wrongdoings by Lou.