Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[MarsTBOW]

Will be interesting to see who replaces Beau tonight vs Carolina and if there will be any other call ups. This team is going to wear down the second half of this big game. I think we will see Fasching tonight.

I hope we will see Fasching tonight. I like his game....

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Will be interesting to see who replaces Beau tonight vs Carolina and if there will be any other call ups. This team is going to wear down the second half of this big game. I think we will see Fasching tonight.

Yeah easily Fasching tonight and then figure out the road trip after. Saw it was said Palmieri is skating on his own so maybe he’s getting close to practicing and then returning sooner than later.

 

[Mike C]

Love JG that was only if we become a draft lottery team by deadline.

I however think we’ll be 7-9 till the end. Be a crazy year.
Not sure how but I think we need a winger for Barzy or a line 2 center if Barzy or Nels moves to wing.
Larkin / Horvat centers Matt

I think Rangers, us, Pens, Caps, Fla and TB will battle for 3 spots. Hope we can hang around

 

[BelovedIsles]

Lou's inability to augment the talent on this team has been quite surprising. When he was hired I had the notion that he got shit done, however possible. That he had a killer instinct for trades/free agency. Surprised and disappointed in his roster building. Again, everything I heard about him was that he's a roster builder, who wants to win another Cup, and will get shit done at almost all costs.

He has a small window here, I'm alright with using a lottery protected 1st. Nelson, Lee etc. all will be a year older a season from now. Who knows what tomorrow brings. Carpe Diem.

 

[JPIsles18]

Lou's inability to augment the talent on this team has been quite surprising. When he was hired I had the notion that he got shit done, however possible. That he had a killer instinct for trades/free agency. Surprised and disappointed in his roster building. Again, everything I heard about him was that he's a roster builder, who wants to win another Cup, and will get shit done at almost all costs.

He has a small window here, I'm alright with using a lottery protected 1st. Nelson, Lee etc. all will be a year older a season from now. Who knows what tomorrow brings. Carpe Diem.

Lou tends to fall in love with his roster when they show a modicum of success. He is great at installing a winning culture. However, he tends to be too loyal towards players he deems play the game the right way. On one hand, it's good for culture. On the other hand, you fall behind skill teams pretty quickly.

As a whole, the team has been pretty bad 5v5 this season. Most notable is that they do not look good defensively. Offensively, they are better, but it seems to have cost them some defense. However, there have been games (like the Devils game), where they look like a legitimately good team. In most other games, they heavily rely on Sorokin. It's not sustainable.

I've been consistently critical of the team building. However, most posters here tend to point to the two deep playoff runs as evidence that Lou has done a great job. However, it's been clear for several years now, that the Isles just don't have enough firepower to compete with the elite teams in the league. They had a window to improve. Unfortunately, they doubled down on aging middle nine forwards who don't move the needle offensively (Palmieri, Pageau) and a top 6 dman with virtually no offensive skill (Romanov).

It's tough to win in this league when you squander cap space. The last 10-15 games or so, they have been playing better. Hopefully, they continue to build on it and are able to capitalize on something substantial at the deadline without giving up too much. I'm not hopeful as 1st rounders have been moved for the likes of Palmieri, Pageau, and Romanov. The track record is poor.

 

[Chardo]

Lou tends to fall in love with his roster when they show a modicum of success. He is great at installing a winning culture. However, he tends to be too loyal towards players he deems play the game the right way. On one hand, it's good for culture. On the other hand, you fall behind skill teams pretty quickly.

As a whole, the team has been pretty bad 5v5 this season. Most notable is that they do not look good defensively. Offensively, they are better, but it seems to have cost them some defense. However, there have been games (like the Devils game), where they look like a legitimately good team. In most other games, they heavily rely on Sorokin. It's not sustainable.

I've been consistently critical of the team building. However, most posters here tend to point to the two deep playoff runs as evidence that Lou has done a great job. However, it's been clear for several years now, that the Isles just don't have enough firepower to compete with the elite teams in the league. They had a window to improve. Unfortunately, they doubled down on aging middle nine forwards who don't move the needle offensively (Palmieri, Pageau) and a top 6 dman with virtually no offensive skill (Romanov).

It's tough to win in this league when you squander cap space. The last 10-15 games or so, they have been playing better. Hopefully, they continue to build on it and are able to capitalize on something substantial at the deadline without giving up too much. I'm not hopeful as 1st rounders have been moved for the likes of Palmieri, Pageau, and Romanov. The track record is poor.

Islanders are currently 11th in the league in 5x5 goals, and 9th fewest 5x5 against. Could be better, but not bad.

 

[MJF]

Lou's inability to augment the talent on this team has been quite surprising. When he was hired I had the notion that he got shit done, however possible. That he had a killer instinct for trades/free agency. Surprised and disappointed in his roster building. Again, everything I heard about him was that he's a roster builder, who wants to win another Cup, and will get shit done at almost all costs.

He has a small window here, I'm alright with using a lottery protected 1st. Nelson, Lee etc. all will be a year older a season from now. Who knows what tomorrow brings. Carpe Diem.

Inability or unwillingness? Other than some high end UFAs Lou hasn't shown an interest in breaking up the core forwards and bringing in fresh blood. Is that because he boxed himself in with contracts that are difficult to move or that he really believes in his roster of "interchangeable parts"?

 

[Mike C]

Inability or unwillingness? Other than some high end UFAs Lou hasn't shown an interest in breaking up the core forwards and bringing in fresh blood. Is that because he boxed himself in with contracts that are difficult to move or that he really believes in his roster of "interchangeable parts"?

Perhaps in his aged mental state, he thinks it's 3 years ago

 

[Throttle]

Lou tends to fall in love with his roster when they show a modicum of success. He is great at installing a winning culture. However, he tends to be too loyal towards players he deems play the game the right way. On one hand, it's good for culture. On the other hand, you fall behind skill teams pretty quickly.

As a whole, the team has been pretty bad 5v5 this season. Most notable is that they do not look good defensively. Offensively, they are better, but it seems to have cost them some defense. However, there have been games (like the Devils game), where they look like a legitimately good team. In most other games, they heavily rely on Sorokin. It's not sustainable.

I've been consistently critical of the team building. However, most posters here tend to point to the two deep playoff runs as evidence that Lou has done a great job. However, it's been clear for several years now, that the Isles just don't have enough firepower to compete with the elite teams in the league. They had a window to improve. Unfortunately, they doubled down on aging middle nine forwards who don't move the needle offensively (Palmieri, Pageau) and a top 6 dman with virtually no offensive skill (Romanov).

It's tough to win in this league when you squander cap space. The last 10-15 games or so, they have been playing better. Hopefully, they continue to build on it and are able to capitalize on something substantial at the deadline without giving up too much. I'm not hopeful as 1st rounders have been moved for the likes of Palmieri, Pageau, and Romanov. The track record is poor.

Just curious, would it have been ‘ok’ for Lou to not trade for Pageau and resign him, inclusive of missing the playoffs? Same goes for acquiring Palmieiri and Zajac, inclusive of missing the playoffs?

I mean the one season Lou didn’t do anything besides rid the Isles of Dead Ladd, the Isles missed the playoffs and fans went livid.

Isles fans love endless hope, prospects, and rebuilds. So far, the biggest UFA to sign with the Isles in 25 years is Varly (by Lou). That player that helped stabilize the goaltending and helped the Isles to b2b conference finals. Unless the Isles have some magic convincing potion to lure UFAs, this franchise will be following the same plan. Ya know, since we all know those loyal fans will sellout UBS with a last place team ‘rebuilding’ again…and again.

 

[JPIsles18]

Islanders are currently 11th in the league in 5x5 goals, and 9th fewest 5x5 against. Could be better, but not bad.

That's one way to look at it. The other way is that the Isles are 31st in the league with 68 expected goals allowed with the 5th best 5v5 save percentage in the league. The goaltending has been exceptional. Only team worst defensively 5v5 has been the Ducks.

Before the anti measurement people come full force, the eye test confirms that the Isles have been very porous defensively as well. Thankfully our goaltending has been incredible.

I think we have been improving over the last 15 games or so. But it's been very up and down. We've been banking points even though they haven't been playing particularly well in many of the games. Hopefully time will fix some of the issues. The overall poor talent level though is not good enough especially if we sacrifice defense.

 

[Tahoeblue]

I know there are some injuries up front that puts lines up in the air, but when players return I am inclined to move Wally back with JGP. Just my 2 cents

I was an advocate for either one or both of Garland and Boeser in the off season and both are struggling mightily with big cap hits.

 

[JPIsles18]

Just curious, would it have been ‘ok’ for Lou to not trade for Pageau and resign him, inclusive of missing the playoffs? Same goes for acquiring Palmieiri and Zajac, inclusive of missing the playoffs?

I mean the one season Lou didn’t do anything besides rid the Isles of Dead Ladd, the Isles missed the playoffs and fans went livid.

Isles fans love endless hope, prospects, and rebuilds. So far, the biggest UFA to sign with the Isles in 25 years is Varly (by Lou). That player that helped stabilize the goaltending and helped the Isles to b2b conference finals. Unless the Isles have some magic convincing potion to lure UFAs, this franchise will be following the same plan. Ya know, since we all know those loyal fans will sellout UBS with a last place team ‘rebuilding’ again…and again.

It's a hard question to answer because we don't know what else was available for trade. The bottom line is that we didn't win the cup in either year. Trading late first rounders isn't a big deal. These picks are valued more than what they're actually worth. The bigger issue are 1) Was anything else available for the assets traded and 2) was re-signing them to long term deals the right move? For me, the answer was always no on both accounts. Acquiring two aging, declining, although useful assets and then signing them to long-term deals wasn't smart then, and obviously won't age well. It looks even worse when you take into account that this is already an old team. It looks even worse when you consider that you gave away Devon Toews for nothing because of poor cap management to begin with.

The goal is to win the cup. If you acquire a player that can help you to do that while being a positive asset beyond that year, you do it. Unfortunately Lou acquired useful players that don't move the Isles past teams like the Lightning and Avalanche, and other upper echelon teams. It's poor asset and cap management. You "overpay" for top players who usually have enough of an impact where it makes sense. Overpaying bottom 6 guys never works out.

 

[Tahoeblue]

Tolvanen waived! Will probably be picked up

 

[PK Cronin]

That's one way to look at it. The other way is that the Isles are 31st in the league with 68 expected goals allowed with the 5th best 5v5 save percentage in the league. The goaltending has been exceptional. Only team worst defensively 5v5 has been the Ducks.

Before the anti measurement people come full force, the eye test confirms that the Isles have been very porous defensively as well. Thankfully our goaltending has been incredible.

I think we have been improving over the last 15 games or so. But it's been very up and down. We've been banking points even though they haven't been playing particularly well in many of the games. Hopefully time will fix some of the issues. The overall poor talent level though is not good enough especially if we sacrifice defense.

You don't think this is by design? The team showed for four seasons that they can be one of the best defensive teams in the league but they struggled generating offense. This year Lambert is opening things up a bit and allowing the offense to get going a bit more at the expense of good defense. I can't help but think Lambert was aware that the goaltending would continue to be strong and could help cover up the defensive miscues that would inevitably come.

This isn't like the team doesn't know how to play defense, they're choosing to play a different system that abandons it. This also isn't a team that is randomly riding a hot goalie, their goalies are known entities at this point and are good enough to help cover up for mistakes.

That said, I don't like wide open hockey and I don't like this new approach for generating offense. I understand why it's happening though.

 

[Throttle]

It's a hard question to answer because we don't know what else was available for trade. The bottom line is that we didn't win the cup in either year. Trading late first rounders isn't a big deal. These picks are valued more than what they're actually worth. The bigger issue are 1) Was anything else available for the assets traded and 2) was re-signing them to long term deals the right move? For me, the answer was always no on both accounts. Acquiring two aging, declining, although useful assets and then signing them to long-term deals wasn't smart then, and obviously won't age well. It looks even worse when you take into account that this is already an old team. It looks even worse when you consider that you gave away Devon Toews for nothing because of poor cap management to begin with.

The goal is to win the cup. If you acquire a player that can help you to do that while being a positive asset beyond that year, you do it. Unfortunately Lou acquired useful players that don't move the Isles past teams like the Lightning and Avalanche, and other upper echelon teams. It's poor asset and cap management. You "overpay" for top players who usually have enough of an impact where it makes sense. Overpaying bottom 6 guys never works out.

Ok, we see you are one of the ‘poor cap management’ people on golden boy Toews. That’s ok, just the narrative is consistently wrong from this crowd of poeple.

Oh no, they traded assets to win the cup, they tried, but didn’t twice. I mean 30 years of futility, why not just wait on all those awesome 1st rounders like Beau, Wally, Barzal, Pulock, etc. to take the Isles to the promised land? Or are we back to ‘Isles should have picked that other guy instead?’ argument? Or the ‘we don’t suck enough to get a franchise player?’

 

[xECK29x]

Tolvanen waived! Will probably be picked up

I'd be shocked if he wasn't

 

[Mike C]

It's a hard question to answer because we don't know what else was available for trade. The bottom line is that we didn't win the cup in either year. Trading late first rounders isn't a big deal. These picks are valued more than what they're actually worth. The bigger issue are 1) Was anything else available for the assets traded and 2) was re-signing them to long term deals the right move? For me, the answer was always no on both accounts. Acquiring two aging, declining, although useful assets and then signing them to long-term deals wasn't smart then, and obviously won't age well. It looks even worse when you take into account that this is already an old team. It looks even worse when you consider that you gave away Devon Toews for nothing because of poor cap management to begin with.

The goal is to win the cup. If you acquire a player that can help you to do that while being a positive asset beyond that year, you do it. Unfortunately Lou acquired useful players that don't move the Isles past teams like the Lightning and Avalanche, and other upper echelon teams. It's poor asset and cap management. You "overpay" for top players who usually have enough of an impact where it makes sense. Overpaying bottom 6 guys never works out.

Pageau continues to contribute and earn his coin. Palms obviously not so much. Lou swung for the fences with a viable shot to win

Gave up a flukey type short handed goal (only one given up all season) on the road in game 7

I would make those moves all day every day every single time

Resigning Palms for 4 years very debatable but getting those guys was essential for the run

 

[Throttle]

Tolvanen waived! Will probably be picked up

How many former first rounders have not been qualified this year and/or waived?

He’s a 2017 1st rounder (oh my, those precious first rounders). That draft really was hot garbage and the Isles didn’t have a first rounder bc it was traded away to retain some precious players in the expansion draft.

 

[JPIsles18]

Ok, we see you are one of the ‘poor cap management’ people on golden boy Toews. That’s ok, just the narrative is consistently wrong from this crowd of poeple.

Oh no, they traded assets to win the cup, they tried, but didn’t twice. I mean 30 years of futility, why not just wait on all those awesome 1st rounders like Beau, Wally, Barzal, Pulock, etc. to take the Isles to the promised land? Or are we back to ‘Isles should have picked that other guy instead?’ argument? Or the ‘we don’t suck enough to get a franchise player?’

It seems you have all the answers. That's really good, because neither Lou nor I do. It's hard to win the cup. The straw man arguments may make you feel smarter, and that's cool.

It's ok to trade assets to win the cup. I'm all for it. Lou is all for it. Where we disagree about is the quality of player being traded for. When you trade an asset, you no longer have that asset to trade for another player. It's called opportunity cost. I don't disagree with trading the picks or assets. I have an issue with trading three first round picks for Pageau, Palmieri, and Romanov. All but one were late picks, so the actual trades were fine. Doubling down by signing them to bad contracts is the second layer of asset management. I have an issue with this as well. Both Palmieri and Pageau were vital to the runs in the respective seasons they were dealt for. Since either have signed their contracts, they haven't been worth it. Those are just some of the contracts that didn't allow us to be in on JG this offseason.

As far as the Toews revisionist history. It's simple. Toews was really good on the Isles. A legitimate top 4 dman with incredible underlying metrics. He cost 4 million. As a GM of a team, you have to know what you have. The underlying metrics were elite. Lou could have made room for him. There's always a way. He chose not to. That's a poor decision. Those assets you're quick to give up for meddling players. Well, I'd give them up to get rid of some of these awful contracts so I can sign one of the best defensemen the Isles let go for a measly 4 million. Lou did not realize how good Toews was/is. That's a failure on his part. Toews was both an analytics and eye-test darling. But sure, Lou can do no wrong. How dare any Isles fans criticize?

Do you know what 30 years of futility and the last 4-5 years have in common? No cups. You know what else? Lou hasn't improved the personnel on the team since taking over. But let's start hanging up banners for the guy who got us to the final 4 two years in a row as underdogs. Let's not hold him accountable for creating a team that had to outperform the roster each season. It was his job to make improvement after falling short. He hasn't gotten the job done. I am not a Lou apologist.

 

[YearlyLottery]

It seems you have all the answers. That's really good, because neither Lou nor I do. It's hard to win the cup. The straw man arguments may make you feel smarter, and that's cool.

It's ok to trade assets to win the cup. I'm all for it. Lou is all for it. Where we disagree about is the quality of player being traded for. When you trade an asset, you no longer have that asset to trade for another player. It's called opportunity cost. I don't disagree with trading the picks or assets. I have an issue with trading three first round picks for Pageau, Palmieri, and Romanov. All but one were late picks, so the actual trades were fine. Doubling down by signing them to bad contracts is the second layer of asset management. I have an issue with this as well. Both Palmieri and Pageau were vital to the runs in the respective seasons they were dealt for. Since either have signed their contracts, they haven't been worth it. Those are just some of the contracts that didn't allow us to be in on JG this offseason.

As far as the Toews revisionist history. It's simple. Toews was really good on the Isles. A legitimate top 4 dman with incredible underlying metrics. He cost 4 million. As a GM of a team, you have to know what you have. The underlying metrics were elite. Lou could have made room for him. There's always a way. He chose not to. That's a poor decision. Those assets you're quick to give up for meddling players. Well, I'd give them up to get rid of some of these awful contracts so I can sign one of the best defensemen the Isles let go for a measly 4 million. Lou did not realize how good Toews was/is. That's a failure on his part. Toews was both an analytics and eye-test darling. But sure, Lou can do no wrong. How dare any Isles fans criticize?

Do you know what 30 years of futility and the last 4-5 years have in common? No cups. You know what else? Lou hasn't improved the personnel on the team since taking over. But let's start hanging up banners for the guy who got us to the final 4 two years in a row as underdogs. Let's not hold him accountable for creating a team that had to outperform the roster each season. It was his job to make improvement after falling short. He hasn't gotten the job done. I am not a Lou apologist.

Jeez the Toews thing I disagree with and he was one of my favorites here. That was the offseason where they could not trade anyone including Leddy because nobody knew what was going to happen with the cap.

 

[Top Corner]

Just curious, would it have been ‘ok’ for Lou to not trade for Pageau and resign him, inclusive of missing the playoffs? Same goes for acquiring Palmieiri and Zajac, inclusive of missing the playoffs?

I mean the one season Lou didn’t do anything besides rid the Isles of Dead Ladd, the Isles missed the playoffs and fans went livid.

Isles fans love endless hope, prospects, and rebuilds. So far, the biggest UFA to sign with the Isles in 25 years is Varly (by Lou). That player that helped stabilize the goaltending and helped the Isles to b2b conference finals. Unless the Isles have some magic convincing potion to lure UFAs, this franchise will be following the same plan. Ya know, since we all know those loyal fans will sellout UBS with a last place team ‘rebuilding’ again…and again.

Thing is , yes it’s a crap shoot trying to land a super Stud in a draft but it’s the only way you are going to get a Barzal or Dobson! They are not going to be traded to you and right now the isles need another Stud or 2!

 

[Mike C]

It seems you have all the answers. That's really good, because neither Lou nor I do. It's hard to win the cup. The straw man arguments may make you feel smarter, and that's cool.

It's ok to trade assets to win the cup. I'm all for it. Lou is all for it. Where we disagree about is the quality of player being traded for. When you trade an asset, you no longer have that asset to trade for another player. It's called opportunity cost. I don't disagree with trading the picks or assets. I have an issue with trading three first round picks for Pageau, Palmieri, and Romanov. All but one were late picks, so the actual trades were fine. Doubling down by signing them to bad contracts is the second layer of asset management. I have an issue with this as well. Both Palmieri and Pageau were vital to the runs in the respective seasons they were dealt for. Since either have signed their contracts, they haven't been worth it. Those are just some of the contracts that didn't allow us to be in on JG this offseason.

As far as the Toews revisionist history. It's simple. Toews was really good on the Isles. A legitimate top 4 dman with incredible underlying metrics. He cost 4 million. As a GM of a team, you have to know what you have. The underlying metrics were elite. Lou could have made room for him. There's always a way. He chose not to. That's a poor decision. Those assets you're quick to give up for meddling players. Well, I'd give them up to get rid of some of these awful contracts so I can sign one of the best defensemen the Isles let go for a measly 4 million. Lou did not realize how good Toews was/is. That's a failure on his part. Toews was both an analytics and eye-test darling. But sure, Lou can do no wrong. How dare any Isles fans criticize?

Do you know what 30 years of futility and the last 4-5 years have in common? No cups. You know what else? Lou hasn't improved the personnel on the team since taking over. But let's start hanging up banners for the guy who got us to the final 4 two years in a row as underdogs. Let's not hold him accountable for creating a team that had to outperform the roster each season. It was his job to make improvement after falling short. He hasn't gotten the job done. I am not a Lou apologist.

I'm sure Barry will be humbled and honored to have that final 4 two years in a row as underdog banner hung for him

 

[LeapOnOver]

I'm not sure i agree with this. He was a line driver his entire career. Put him with Nelson and Lee and let him handle, have Nelson work the open spaces and that chemistry should work. Playing Barzal and Kane together would be redundant. As for the PP, you have to decide if Nelson can play the bumper role, since Kane is probably the better option on the right side for the one-timer.

Or maybe you really shake it up and take Lee and Nelson off PP1. Parise in front, Kane on right, Wahlstrom in bumper with Barzal and Dobson. Lee only really has one role on the PP, while Parise can be more versatile and mobile. One reason our PP looks stagnant at times is that Lee doesn't move at all and it makes the defense pack it in more.

2nd PP should be Aho on point, Nelson, Lee, Palmieri/Pageau and Beau and they should be shooting and crashing to give the defense a different look to deal with.

Pageau has been a best PP performer, lol. That's scary...

 

[BelovedIsles]

Inability or unwillingness? Other than some high end UFAs Lou hasn't shown an interest in breaking up the core forwards and bringing in fresh blood. Is that because he boxed himself in with contracts that are difficult to move or that he really believes in his roster of "interchangeable parts"?

Or perhaps he's gotten conservative or my preconceived notion of him was wrong. I do believe he boxed himself into a corner with the multiple middle six contracts he gave out. That said, Bailey's he inherited. JPG at 5 is where he should be, relative to the multi-faceted game he plays. Palms is overpaid, Beau is overpaid. He banked on Beau developing, as most of us did. Palms is oft-injured and always has been; he was another gamble. He somehow got rid of Ladd, I'll give him that. He's hugely failed at shedding Bailey and Beau. Lee's the captain, he's slightly overpaid. What would that do to team morale if he traded the beloved Captain?

Of course to the media he's going to believe in the roster he (partly) assembled/retained. It shows faith to the team, and his ego won't let him admit he failed at adding talent to a roster just begging for it.

Overall, he's done a great job at perpetuating the foundation of mediocrity Snow built, with some caveats.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Or perhaps he's gotten conservative or my preconceived notion of him was wrong. I do believe he boxed himself into a corner with the multiple middle six contracts he gave out. That said, Bailey's he inherited. JPG at 5 is where he should be, relative to the multi-faceted game he plays. Palms is overpaid, Beau is overpaid. He banked on Beau developing, as most of us did. Palms is oft-injured and always has been; he was another gamble. He somehow got rid of Ladd, I'll give him that. He's hugely failed at shedding Bailey and Beau. Lee's the captain, he's slightly overpaid. What would that do to team morale if he traded the beloved Captain?

Of course to the media he's going to believe in the roster he (partly) assembled/retained. It shows faith to the team, and his ego won't let him admit he failed at adding talent to a roster just begging for it.

Overall, he's done a great job at perpetuating the foundation of mediocrity Snow built, with some caveats.

It is mind boggling how anyone can say the Lou era is anything close to what we watched under Snow.