Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[MJF]

Not one of Palmieri, Bailey or Beauvillier can be moved without similar salary coming back. They are not trade chips. Maybe Beau has a little value in a larger deal where the Isles move him, a top prospect and a pick for a player, but on his own his value is pretty much nowt.

Agreed. This is the same problem Lou faced last summer. There was no way to clear out those salaries without adding a sweetener to the deal. Nobody wants Bailey or Beauvillier on their own merits. Palmieri's contract has the added burden of a no trade clause this year, so he's not going anywhere.

 

[The Real JT]

I’m not disagreeing that he’s not a second pairing guy, just comes down to whether NYI is willing to pay a premium for a guy who will be a third pairing guy here for the long haul.

I gave your post a like not only because I agree with it but also because I’m a fan of double negatives.

 

[The Real JT]

Agreed. This is the same problem Lou faced last summer. There was no way to clear out those salaries without adding a sweetener to the deal. Nobody wants Bailey or Beauvillier on their own merits. Palmieri's contract has the added burden of a no trade clause this year, so he's not going anywhere.

I’m pretty much on the same page but I suspect there’s still a GM that values Beau marginally above his current contract. Not to any great extent mind you but he’s had some highlight snipes that look impressive.

If he’s just a throwaway, I’d rather just keep him. Bailey OTOH…

 

[Lame Lambert]

Montreal would certainly take Beau with no retention.

 

[doublechili]

Agreed. This is the same problem Lou faced last summer. There was no way to clear out those salaries without adding a sweetener to the deal. Nobody wants Bailey or Beauvillier on their own merits. Palmieri's contract has the added burden of a no trade clause this year, so he's not going anywhere.

Bailey is owed $3.5M actual money next year with a cap hit of $5M, so he could be worked into a deal to make salaries work - especially if a team needs cap hit. I'm sure AZ would take Bailey for Schmaltz, but no thanks....

 

[NC 1972]

Being Jewish, I'm very biased in NYI having their very own Jewish star player, when both the Rangers, and Devils have one. (Chychrun is also, like me, a Cashew - having one Catholic parent.)

But it makes no sense. So much of his value would be on the PP anyway. Are you going to move Barzal off the PP1 for Chychrun & play 2 D? Or move Dobson off the PP1?

I agree with Leaponover that the best way to improve NYI is to improve defensively. However, I feel pretty certain that the best way for NYI to do that is to improve the forwards. NYI's problem isn't (for the most part) defending, it's winning the race to the loose pucks on the defensive half wall, getting possession, and making good first touches. They need a Jamie Langenbrunner type.

I'm from Brooklyn born and bread the first 31years currently residing in Rockaway these past 34 and this is the first I've ever heard the term (Cashew) love it by the way! And that's why I come here it's always an education!

 

[MJF]

Bailey is owed $3.5M actual money next year with a cap hit of $5M, so he could be worked into a deal to make salaries work - especially if a team needs cap hit. I'm sure AZ would take Bailey for Schmaltz, but no thanks....

It’s always about the cap hit. Actual cash is meaningless unless it’s Fred and Jeff Wilpon.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

I think this off-season has proven without a doubt that no one has any idea what the Isles are or aren't involved in.

I think Aho improvement, Salo and Bolduc improved play this year makes it less likely we’d go route of a name defenseman. I could see them getting a vet ala like they did when they got Andy Greene possibly down line though.

 

[Throttle]

Not one of Palmieri, Bailey or Beauvillier can be moved without similar salary coming back. They are not trade chips. Maybe Beau has a little value in a larger deal where the Isles move him, a top prospect and a pick for a player, but on his own his value is pretty much nowt.

Think of them more of as cap transfers. I doubt Palms is going anywhere based on his alignment with Lou.

One has to consider the playoffs here vs the regular season. Both Bailey and Beau have been top performers in the playoffs - that’s what Lou is looking at. Actually, all these guys were and they were not the reason the Isles did not advance.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Gross wrote a sidebar story in yesterday's Newsday about Mayfield's upcoming free agency, and writes that "on the open market, Mayfield could garner $3.5 million annually -- maybe more" given his age and production.

Sounded low to me but at that price I'd expect he'd be brought back.

Could isles give him longer term at lower cap hit like they did with Cizikas. I do think Mayfield would take less to stay here but I doubt anything is decided until after year ends.

 

[Chardo]

In all my years, I have never heard this term.

Me neither. My grandkids will be.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Think of them more of as cap transfers. I doubt Palms is going anywhere based on his alignment with Lou.

One has to consider the playoffs here vs the regular season. Both Bailey and Beau have been top performers in the playoffs - that’s what Lou is looking at. Actually, all these guys were and they were not the reason the Isles did not advance.

Perhaps also with Beau he’s a bit undervalued by this fanbase, he is extremely streaky but still plays a good middle six forward role with hopefully 20 goals and a very good penalty killer and like you said a knack for playoff production that is above his regular season production. That said he shouldn’t be a holdup to getting a Kane or someone of that caliber.

 

[Throttle]

Perhaps also with Beau he’s a bit undervalued by this fanbase, he is extremely streaky but still plays a good middle six forward role with hopefully 20 goals and a very good penalty killer and like you said a knack for playoff production that is above his regular season production. That said he shouldn’t be a holdup to getting a Kane or someone of that caliber.

He’s the one marketable player in a trade that the receiving team gets to digest: former 1st rounder, 25yrs old, yada, yada. Sometimes it’s a sell job by the GM when making these trades too.

 

[SCMURRAY]

How do Isles fan feel about Toews? Wouldn't cost as much as Kane. Move Nelson to Barzals wing. He's on pace for 51 pts on a crap Chicago team. Excellent in the dot.

Nelson-Barzal-Wally
Lee-Toews-Beau
Bailey-JPG-Palms
Parise-CC-CC

 

[Lights911]

3rd pairing who closes out close games and plays 20+ minutes a night? The Isles SHOULD pay a premium for Mayfield.

They shouldn't.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

How do Isles fan feel about Toews? Wouldn't cost as much as Kane. Move Nelson to Barzals wing. He's on pace for 51 pts on a crap Chicago team. Excellent in the dot.

Nelson-Barzal-Wally
Lee-Toews-Beau
Bailey-JPG-Palms
Parise-CC-CC

In general I like the idea of adding a top six center to move with Barzal. Barzy is 33 percent on the dot and plays wing in the D zone. Won’t stop him from transitions.

 

[WangMustGo]

How do Isles fan feel about Toews? Wouldn't cost as much as Kane. Move Nelson to Barzals wing. He's on pace for 51 pts on a crap Chicago team. Excellent in the dot.

Nelson-Barzal-Wally
Lee-Toews-Beau
Bailey-JPG-Palms
Parise-CC-CC

I dont love the idea, but i dont hate it either. Id rather Lou find someone younger, who provides more offense. If the Sharks decide to go full blown rebuild I hope Lou goes after Meier. I think he would be perfect with Barzal.

 

[JPIsles18]

Where is the fun, if you can't move the goal posts to fit your argument?

The NHL, like many other leagues, tends to be about parity. You can look very good one game, mediocre the next and then there are the complete stinkers mixed in. Heck, that even happens period to period. Every team is going to be up and down throughout the season.

There are predominantly four types of NHL teams (outside of the few elite teams we have seen in Tampa and Colorado recently):

1. Teams top-heavy with offensive talent in limited spots, like the Rags and Laffs, who have noticeable warts;
2. Balanced teams, such as the Isles and Stars (throw in the Blues up until this year), who can compete most games;
3. Young teams potentially finding their way, like the Devils and Kings; and
4. The dregs of the league like Arizona, Anaheim, Ottawa, etc.

It is funny, I bet some of those complaining about the Isles would probably love to have Vancouver or Columbus' collection of offensive talent upfront, of course both of those teams have glaring holes elsewhere and are hot garbage right now.

I am just hoping that the Isles can develop one or two forwards internally AND then add one big piece to take the next step. Filling 2 spots should be very doable over the rest of the season and makes for organic growth.

Isles fans seem to completely ignore that with average goaltending we'd be in the bottom 5-10 in the league. Putting on blinders and ignoring process in favor of results don't work in the playoffs. The Islanders are not balanced. Of the 23 games thus far this season, the Isles have been the better team 5 on 5 in about 8-10 games. Their best games were against the Avalanche and the Canes. Overall, there are alarming trends with this team. This team is no longer that good 5v5 so far.

Your point that some teams look good, mediocre, etc is not correct. The great teams look great more than they look mediocre or bad. This Isles team, while winning, has not been good 5 on 5. This is not debatable. You'd be singing a very different tune if we weren't lucky enough to have elite goaltending.

I've been an Islander fan for decades now. Isles fans typically love to put their blinders on especially when the team has a good record. We are not winning in a sustainable fashion. The team isn't very good. The goaltending pushes them to above average, because of how elite its been. To ignore this is being dishonest with yourself. If you want to talk about balance, the Isles defense has been atrocious 5v5. They are at a league worse 58 xGF. You can absolutely make the case for Sorokin being the MVP this season if the Isles continue to play this way and somehow make the playoffs and make noise.

This team is not as good as its record.

Agreed. This is the same problem Lou faced last summer. There was no way to clear out those salaries without adding a sweetener to the deal. Nobody wants Bailey or Beauvillier on their own merits. Palmieri's contract has the added burden of a no trade clause this year, so he's not going anywhere.

You can add Pageau to the list. Horrible albatross contracts on this team.

 

[leeroggy]

How do Isles fan feel about Toews? Wouldn't cost as much as Kane. Move Nelson to Barzals wing. He's on pace for 51 pts on a crap Chicago team. Excellent in the dot.

Nelson-Barzal-Wally
Lee-Toews-Beau
Bailey-JPG-Palms
Parise-CC-CC

With that baggage on the bullying/sexual harassment with Beech? In this media market? No thanks.

 

[Mike C]

With that baggage on the bullying/sexual harassment with Beech? In this media market? No thanks.

yet they clamor for Kane who has his own personal history of harassment, sexual and physical (like the time he beat up a cabbie over 30 cents change)

Isles fans seem to completely ignore that with average goaltending we'd be in the bottom 5-10 in the league. Putting on blinders and ignoring process in favor of results don't work in the playoffs. The Islanders are not balanced. Of the 23 games thus far this season, the Isles have been the better team 5 on 5 in about 8-10 games. Their best games were against the Avalanche and the Canes. Overall, there are alarming trends with this team. This team is no longer that good 5v5 so far.

Your point that some teams look good, mediocre, etc is not correct. The great teams look great more than they look mediocre or bad. This Isles team, while winning, has not been good 5 on 5. This is not debatable. You'd be singing a very different tune if we weren't lucky enough to have elite goaltending.

I've been an Islander fan for decades now. Isles fans typically love to put their blinders on especially when the team has a good record. We are not winning in a sustainable fashion. The team isn't very good. The goaltending pushes them to above average, because of how elite its been. To ignore this is being dishonest with yourself. If you want to talk about balance, the Isles defense has been atrocious 5v5. They are at a league worse 58 xGF. You can absolutely make the case for Sorokin being the MVP this season if the Isles continue to play this way and somehow make the playoffs and make noise.

This team is not as good as its record.


You can add Pageau to the list. Horrible albatross contracts on this team.

pageau earns his money

 

[redbull]

Isles fans seem to completely ignore that with average goaltending we'd be in the bottom 5-10 in the league. Putting on blinders and ignoring process in favor of results don't work in the playoffs. The Islanders are not balanced. Of the 23 games thus far this season, the Isles have been the better team 5 on 5 in about 8-10 games. Their best games were against the Avalanche and the Canes. Overall, there are alarming trends with this team. This team is no longer that good 5v5 so far.

Your point that some teams look good, mediocre, etc is not correct. The great teams look great more than they look mediocre or bad. This Isles team, while winning, has not been good 5 on 5. This is not debatable. You'd be singing a very different tune if we weren't lucky enough to have elite goaltending.

I've been an Islander fan for decades now. Isles fans typically love to put their blinders on especially when the team has a good record. We are not winning in a sustainable fashion. The team isn't very good. The goaltending pushes them to above average, because of how elite its been. To ignore this is being dishonest with yourself. If you want to t ofalk about balance, the Isles defense has been atrocious 5v5. They are at a league worse 58 xGF. You can absolutely make the case for Sorokin being the MVP this season if the Isles continue to play this way and somehow make the playoffs and make noise.

This team is not as good as its record.


You can add Pageau to the list. Horrible albatross contracts on this team.

ALL TRUE

However, the goalie IS part of the team, arguably more-so than Barzal or Dobson based on importance/impact.

Ultimately, it's a parity league with cap-tradeoffs and no team is perfect. The media narrative of what's right is always a lazy/recency-biased bullsht story that many cling to.

As long as team is competitive, a top goalie gives you a chance to win. Getting hot at the right time, being a fiercely-competitive playoff team is really all you can ask for.

I'd love to see an elite forward, but they are impossible to get. Panarin turning down the $12MM (whether he is worth it or not is debatable) but a single game-changing player who elevates teammates can make a huge difference in the toughest/closest games.

Kucherov/Stamkos/Hedman/Vasilevsky
MacKinnon/Makar/Rantanen
Pastrnak/Marchand/Bergeron

This is the area where the Isles are a bit off the mark, as we all see, but it's balanced by great depth, good team defense and defensemen, balanced scoring.

Barzal/Dobson/Sorokin is where elite-ish lives and it's not bad at all.
A simple (not simple at all) replacing Panarin-esque ($12MM) for any two of Bailey/Palmieri/Beauvillier/Pageau can be an enormous lift to this team.

Not sure who can fill that role, maybe Kane?

 

[Throttle]

yet they clamor for Kane who has his own personal history of harassment, sexual and physical (like the time he beat up a cabbie over 30 cents change)


pageau earns his money

It’s 2022, that incident was in 2009 as a 20yr old.

 

[Mike C]

It’s 2022, that incident was in 2009 as a 20yr old.

Then in 2015 he was investigated for rape. He was 26. Wonder how he enjoys his nights on the town now

 

[PK Cronin]

Then in 2015 he was investigated for rape. He was 26. Wonder how he enjoys his nights on the town now

What did the investigation turn up? It was a bunch of nothing from what I remember.

 

[TMI]

Isles fans seem to completely ignore that with average goaltending we'd be in the bottom 5-10 in the league. Putting on blinders and ignoring process in favor of results don't work in the playoffs. The Islanders are not balanced. Of the 23 games thus far this season, the Isles have been the better team 5 on 5 in about 8-10 games. Their best games were against the Avalanche and the Canes. Overall, there are alarming trends with this team. This team is no longer that good 5v5 so far.

Your point that some teams look good, mediocre, etc is not correct. The great teams look great more than they look mediocre or bad. This Isles team, while winning, has not been good 5 on 5. This is not debatable. You'd be singing a very different tune if we weren't lucky enough to have elite goaltending.

I've been an Islander fan for decades now. Isles fans typically love to put their blinders on especially when the team has a good record. We are not winning in a sustainable fashion. The team isn't very good. The goaltending pushes them to above average, because of how elite its been. To ignore this is being dishonest with yourself. If you want to talk about balance, the Isles defense has been atrocious 5v5. They are at a league worse 58 xGF. You can absolutely make the case for Sorokin being the MVP this season if the Isles continue to play this way and somehow make the playoffs and make noise.

This team is not as good as its record.


You can add Pageau to the list. Horrible albatross contracts on this team.

While you make some bona-fide debatable points, once you throw in that lasr sentence, you lose all credibility with me. JGP is FAR from an overpayment or an albatross contract.