Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[periferal]

There really aren't that many who qualify as just a goal scorer these days anyhow. Heck, Dal Colle is already 10 years ago and imagine if the 1st round went better when we took Sorokin in the 3rd and Toews in the 4th?

Heck, if they were our top picks and Dal Colle was 3rd round and Ho-Sang 4th round, we'd be crowing for years about how great a draft it was! Perceptions are pretty funny at times.

Nylander, Kempe, Sorokin and Toews were possible as a draft haul in 2014. Kempe right after Josh and Nylander 4 behind Dal Colle.

The Hockey Gods giveth and taketh equally . . .

It's a fair point, but also not that simple. If someone gave you $200,000 to buy a nice car with the remaining cash going out the window, it wouldn't exactly be great that you got a very nice and suped-up Acura MDX...When you could've had so much more.

Wasting 1st round picks, much less top 10, ones is a surefire way to keep yourself away from a championship. I mean as you mentioned we took Sorokin and Toews in the 3rd and 4th, but imagine if snow traded down and/or took Ehlers or Nylander. That might have been the difference against Tampa in the semi-finals (and Cup).

 

[MJF]

Wahlstrom is such an interesting (and frustrating) case. There is nothing talent wise than explains his lack of production. It is all in his head.

Don't leave out that Wahlstrom, like Dal Colle before him, doesn't skate well enough to get to prime shooting position on the rush.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

How is it NOT "due to drafting?" It's clear as day that none of those 5 players were ever going to make it and thus should've been drafted.

I think you're making this a wee bit too simple. Some might call it an attempt at <gulp> "gaslighting".

Legit/good NHL players (and professional athletes anywhere) usually have success because they are gifted physically, smart, and work hard. Sure a certain coach or teammate can help them be even better, but those who make it would almost certainly prove that they belong in the big leagues on any team they play for.

Dal Colle, Ho-Sang, Wilde, Bellows, and Salo (among Griffin Reinhart and too many others) were never going to make it in the NHL no matter where they played because they didn't have some combination of ability, smart, and/or worth ethic...And our scouting department needs to do a much better job of identifying these DOA prospects before they waste picks on them.

In fact I'd argue we've seen enough evidence and many in the scouting department should be replaced.

If all these guys were drafted far ahead of what was generally expected, then I'd be all with you.

Dal Colle, Bellows, Salo - all went exactly in the range they were expected. Actually, Reinhart was one of the strongest risers in his draft year too. Everyone in the biz I chatted with beforehand saw him going top 8.

And in all the publications after the 2018 draft, all I saw were pundits raving about the Isles being able to grab Wilde where they did in the second round.

Ho-Sang actually did better in his small NHL showing than the whole lot of them, offensively speaking.

I can say that if we look at i.e. the Dallas Stars and see how many of these guys have been fostered in their system and surged into the pro line-up, those in the know are talking about how successful they are with these players AFTER they're drafted. Whatever they're doing to quickly and proficiently mold them - and apparently they're aggressive in their approach - it's been very-to-overly successful. And they've got a few more on the way.

In other words, I think we really need to all understand that a guy could very well be on his way to the NHL when he's drafted at 18/19, but the team itself then drops the ball in the years thereafter.

Granted, we've naturally seen a fair share of our own prospects become Islanders. Much of the team, in fact.

In the Lou era, Dobson and Holmstrom are the picks that have arrived. Wahlstrom and Bolduc to varying degrees, but obviously not as regulars.

***
Now, I know there are plenty out there in Islanderville (and ipso facto, right here) who are gonna give management the benefit of the doubt and say all these guys I listed just stunk or obviously weren't good enough when all was said and done.

Thus, that they're totally responsible for their fate.

Fair enough.

I would think true fans who watch what other teams do would want to hold a higher standard of the people in charge and namely one in which it's part of the job description for the GM to always have an eye on the value level of the prospects/players in his system and act accordingly in the interest of the organization.

We all know that not everyone is gonna make it. Heck, the majority won't make it. But if you're management, you're gonna know earlier than everyone else who you don't really see yourself building/planning with, right? Isn't that then the point where you've gotta move 'em? Should it not be part of your job description to see assets NOT whither away into non-assets?

And even if we don't talk about the entire prospect bin, then this standard should certainly apply to your top 65 picks and anyone thereafter who has an overly strong year as a youngster at the AHL level.

Am I wrong?

Well, it sure feels like it'd be another form of failure if Wahlstrom is the next to just walk away as another "didn't happen" here. He's been in a bit of no-man's land for several years now. Heck, he was even kind of there already after his failed college hockey outing. But he looked promising in between and we brought in other guys who slowly but surely surpassed him on the importance list.

Everyone can analyze each player situation as they wish, but these cases are growing...

 

[BelovedIsles]

A guy who has better per82's than every forward on our team not named Barzal isn't moving the needle...

Um, ok.

We can agree to disagree. Again you are the same person who defends Kyle Palmieri repeatedly because of his "playoff attributes" which ironically enough also plagued him in a long playoff run early in his career. He had a 16-game postseason run with Anaheim, before he became a Devil where he mustered a single goal and only 4 points, three less than Ehler's 21-year old debut. He has since delivered 10 goals in 30 Islander playoff games.....but Ehlers couldn't follow that... because???

Sorry, but it just doesn't hold much water. Again 4 goals and 7 points in 16 games in his last 4 playoff runs (he was injured in one of those) is too small a sample size to put that label on him IMO.

An actual 60-point plus wing playing on a top line with Barzal and Horvat (who wasnt even a 60-point producer when we got him, but rather a 27/29/56 guy) would simply make too much sense, something Barzal hasn't even sniffed with the likes of Lee, Palms (who were never 60-point guys) and the rest of the jokers who have lined up with him.

Your every third post of Barzal-bashing would be at risk and we cant have that lol

You can add the subtle jabs at Sorokin, Lord knows, they may intensify.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Don't leave out that Wahlstrom, like Dal Colle before him, doesn't skate well enough to get to prime shooting position on the rush.

Wahlstrom in my opinion is enough of a banger and more physical than MDC though. I think his skating is actually good enough to be a 25-30 goal scorer. It really comes down to this for me:

no hockey IQ. He never seems to be in prime scoring situations without the puck. Perimeter player despite having the strength to be towards the front of the net. He got away with his lethal shot and bullying weaker players that he never had to be close to the net (like Lee does). Okposo is a really good example of what Wahlstrom could have been. Okposo was not a better skater and did not have a better shot but he drove the net and had the smarts to be able to stick on top lines.

Skating and driving the front of the net needs to be a strength in every prospect this organization drafts in my opinion. When you look at Strome, Beauvillier, MDC, Wahlstrom, etc they are all missing at least one of those and most likely both of them.

 

[beach]

Don't leave out that Wahlstrom, like Dal Colle before him, doesn't skate well enough to get to prime shooting position on the rush.

This

 

[MJF]

Wahlstrom in my opinion is enough of a banger and more physical than MDC though. I think his skating is actually good enough to be a 25-30 goal scorer. It really comes down to this for me:

no hockey IQ. He never seems to be in prime scoring situations without the puck. Perimeter player despite having the strength to be towards the front of the net. He got away with his lethal shot and bullying weaker players that he never had to be close to the net (like Lee does). Okposo is a really good example of what Wahlstrom could have been. Okposo was not a better skater and did not have a better shot but he drove the net and had the smarts to be able to stick on top lines.

Skating and driving the front of the net needs to be a strength in every prospect this organization drafts in my opinion. When you look at Strome, Beauvillier, MDC, Wahlstrom, etc they are all missing at least one of those and most likely both of them.

Wahlstrom wasn’t drafted to be a banger. He was drated to snipe.

You can add the subtle jabs at Sorokin, Lord knows, they may intensify.

What is life without having a whipping boy?

 

[Throttle]

I don't really get the 'have trouble making the playoffs' line. I get that you want a spot clinched by December, but we finished 1st wildcard last year and 3rd in the metro this year. Frankly, it may feel like sneaking in to you, but we haven't even been the last seed when we've made it.

FL had some real trouble making the playoffs last year…like they needed PIT to flop in the end just to make it.

 

[Throttle]

It's a fair point, but also not that simple. If someone gave you $200,000 to buy a nice car with the remaining cash going out the window, it wouldn't exactly be great that you got a very nice and suped-up Acura MDX...When you could've had so much more.

Wasting 1st round picks, much less top 10, ones is a surefire way to keep yourself away from a championship. I mean as you mentioned we took Sorokin and Toews in the 3rd and 4th, but imagine if snow traded down and/or took Ehlers or Nylander. That might have been the difference against Tampa in the semi-finals (and Cup).

There’s plenty of ways to build. FL has ONE drafted player on this team from the 2015 draft to this year. ONE.

 

[Throttle]

You can add the subtle jabs at Sorokin, Lord knows, they may intensify.

And he’s being paid as a Top 5 goalie now, he better be one. He’ll get criticized just like Bob was since signing in FL. The team paid him a ton of money and he annually underperformed to where the team was reaching to AHL goalie fodder and a G prospect just to make the playoffs.

It’s also partly why FL had to value buy players bc Bob was immovable, they needed to cover his underperformance in net and work around his anchor cap hit.

He finally found his mental game this playoffs. Good for him. But the team and fans expected that day one of his deal, not year 6.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Wahlstrom wasn’t drafted to be a banger. He was drated to snipe.


What is life without having a whipping boy?

Wahlstrom was not drafted to be a banger..... Of course. Being a physical player who is willing to throw the body should always be looked at as a strength though.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

Man, Dave Chyzowski... I still dislike the Kamloop Blazers because of him, what an epic bust.

Other than hitting the lotto with Bossy on drafting one-dimensional goal scorers, the Isles have failed repeatedly at drafting that type of player. Maybe one day or just bypass those types altogether.

If anyone is interested in a Dave Chyzowski interview... check it out. He blames Al Arbour for some of his development woes....

 

[MJF]

Wahlstrom was not drafted to be a banger..... Of course. Being a physical player who is willing to throw the body should always be looked at as a strength though.

Wahlstrom was playing the banger role because he wasn't scoring. At that point during Lambert's tenure Wahlstrom was taking the body (and stupid penalties) as well as trying to be the enforcer during Matt Martin's stint on IR. You do anything you can to stay in the lineup.

It's a strength when you can play the banger role and score on 2nd line minutes. Wahlstrom was doing that minus the scoring on the bottom 6 = a waste of a 1st round pick.

 

[Arsenalogist24]

I think you're making this a wee bit too simple. Some might call it an attempt at <gulp> "gaslighting".



If all these guys were drafted far ahead of what was generally expected, then I'd be all with you.

Dal Colle, Bellows, Salo - all went exactly in the range they were expected. Actually, Reinhart was one of the strongest risers in his draft year too. Everyone in the biz I chatted with beforehand saw him going top 8.

And in all the publications after the 2018 draft, all I saw were pundits raving about the Isles being able to grab Wilde where they did in the second round.

Ho-Sang actually did better in his small NHL showing than the whole lot of them, offensively speaking.

I can say that if we look at i.e. the Dallas Stars and see how many of these guys have been fostered in their system and surged into the pro line-up, those in the know are talking about how successful they are with these players AFTER they're drafted. Whatever they're doing to quickly and proficiently mold them - and apparently they're aggressive in their approach - it's been very-to-overly successful. And they've got a few more on the way.

In other words, I think we really need to all understand that a guy could very well be on his way to the NHL when he's drafted at 18/19, but the team itself then drops the ball in the years thereafter.

Granted, we've naturally seen a fair share of our own prospects become Islanders. Much of the team, in fact.

In the Lou era, Dobson and Holmstrom are the picks that have arrived. Wahlstrom and Bolduc to varying degrees, but obviously not as regulars.

***
Now, I know there are plenty out there in Islanderville (and ipso facto, right here) who are gonna give management the benefit of the doubt and say all these guys I listed just stunk or obviously weren't good enough when all was said and done.

Thus, that they're totally responsible for their fate.

Fair enough.

I would think true fans who watch what other teams do would want to hold a higher standard of the people in charge and namely one in which it's part of the job description for the GM to always have an eye on the value level of the prospects/players in his system and act accordingly in the interest of the organization.

Everyone can analyze each player situation as they wish, but these cases are growing...

At this point I think it’s just going to have to wait until the next GM but this is exactly why I think we need a scouting department overhaul

 

[Osakahaus]

Man, Dave Chyzowski... I still dislike the Kamloop Blazers because of him, what an epic bust.

Other than hitting the lotto with Bossy on drafting one-dimensional goal scorers, the Isles have failed repeatedly at drafting that type of player. Maybe one day or just bypass those types altogether.

I think they just need a guy who is solid. then again, drafting is purely just BS at the end of the day past round 3.

point is: the isles just need a guy who can play solid. Its why I like the Holmstrom pick, and its why I like the Dobson pick. Wahlstrom was meh. He needs to fix his skating either way, and that ACL destroyed his 2023 campaign onwards.

 

[doublechili]

There’s plenty of ways to build. FL has ONE drafted player on this team from the 2015 draft to this year. ONE.

Yeah, there was a graphic up during last night's game showing that FLA has a total of (I think) 3 players on their roster that they drafted. IIRC, 10 players were UFAs and the rest were acquired in trades or via waivers.

VGK last year I think was pretty similar in how they built their roster.

If FLA wins, the last 5 Cups will be FLA, VGK, COL, TB and TB. Not only do we need a new GM, we need to move to a more desirable geographic location.

 

[Osakahaus]

Yeah, there was a graphic up during last night's game showing that FLA has a total of (I think) 3 players on their roster that they drafted. IIRC, 10 players were UFAs and the rest were acquired in trades or via waivers.

VGK last year I think was pretty similar in how they built their roster.

If FLA wins, the last 5 Cups will be FLA, VGK, COL, TB and TB. Not only do we need a new GM, we need to move to a more desirable geographic location.

we cant change the Islanders being on Long Island

 

[doublechili]

we cant change the Islanders being on Long Island

I know - I was kidding, and I'm not saying it's impossible to win. But some teams have a bit of a built in advantage. Tkachuk basically forced a trade to FLA. OEL was a bad deal at his previous salary, but after a buyout he was a bargain at the low salary he took to play in FLA. I'm sure there are more examples, but not discounting that FLA has a great GM too.

 

[Osakahaus]

I know - I was kidding, and I'm not saying it's impossible to win. But some teams have a bit of a built in advantage. Tkachuk basically forced a trade to FLA. OEL was a bad deal at his previous salary, but after a buyout he was a bargain at the low salary he took to play in FLA. I'm sure there are more examples, but not discounting that FLA has a great GM too.

Isles need a general manager who can get crafty period. Thats the only way we are gonna be able to keep up with the jones. Then again, the Metro is a gong show.

 

[doublechili]

BTW, if you look at FLA and VGK (and really even COL and TBL), depth wins Cups. FLA went out and got Tarasenko at the TDL and he's playing on the 3rd line. But their depth is killing everyone, especially EDM which relies on maybe 4 or 5 guys up front.

Last summer I suggested possibly moving Nelson to 3C, and I'll do the same thing again. Move JGP in a deal. Get a bit more skill on the wings, and move Barzal back to C. Roll 3 lines that can score (and a 4th that's not a black hole of hemmed-in-your-own-zone).

 

[periferal]

There’s plenty of ways to build. FL has ONE drafted player on this team from the 2015 draft to this year. ONE.

This has to be one of the most disingenuous cherry-picking posts in the history of HFBoards.

You're seriously going to arbitrarily use 2015 as a cutoff to foster an idea that drafting isn't that important? What a joke. Here's some player the Panthers DRAFTED just before your cutoff...

2011 - Huberdeau (key piece in acquiring Tkachuk)
2013 - Barkov
2014 - Ekblad

Without those 3 they don't come close to where they are now.

And while you're pumping up the "there's plenty of ways to build" take, while your GM is out there trading 1sts for guys like Romanov, Palmieri, and Pageau...The Panthers used a 1st to acquire Sam Reinhart.

So yeah...Many ways to build, but if your GM isn't drafting well you ain't getting to the finish line. Period.

 

[WangMustGo]

BTW, if you look at FLA and VGK (and really even COL and TBL), depth wins Cups. FLA went out and got Tarasenko at the TDL and he's playing on the 3rd line. But their depth is killing everyone, especially EDM which relies on maybe 4 or 5 guys up front.

Last summer I suggested possibly moving Nelson to 3C, and I'll do the same thing again. Move JGP in a deal. Get a bit more skill on the wings, and move Barzal back to C. Roll 3 lines that can score (and a 4th that's not a black hole of hemmed-in-your-own-zone).

I wouldn’t even be against adding another high quality center. Run Horvat, xxxxx, Nelson down the middle. Gives you 3 scoring lines still, and flexibility to stack a line when down late in a game.

 

[Osakahaus]

This has to be one of the most disingenuous cherry-picking posts in the history of HFBoards.

You're seriously going to arbitrarily use 2015 as a cutoff to foster an idea that drafting isn't that important? What a joke. Here's some player the Panthers DRAFTED just before your cutoff...

2011 - Huberdeau (key piece in acquiring Tkachuk)
2013 - Barkov
2014 - Ekblad

Without those 3 they don't come close to where they are now.

And while you're pumping up the "there's plenty of ways to build" take, while your GM is out there trading 1sts for guys like Romanov, Palmieri, and Pageau...The Panthers used a 1st to acquire Sam Reinhart.

So yeah...Many ways to build, but if your GM isn't drafting well you ain't getting to the finish line. Period.

Florida has three players drafted BY FLORIDA on their roster

the only other one is Lundell

 

[Throttle]

This has to be one of the most disingenuous cherry-picking posts in the history of HFBoards.

You're seriously going to arbitrarily use 2015 as a cutoff to foster an idea that drafting isn't that important? What a joke. Here's some player the Panthers DRAFTED just before your cutoff...

2011 - Huberdeau (key piece in acquiring Tkachuk)
2013 - Barkov
2014 - Ekblad

Without those 3 they don't come close to where they are now.

And while you're pumping up the "there's plenty of ways to build" take, while your GM is out there trading 1sts for guys like Romanov, Palmieri, and Pageau...The Panthers used a 1st to acquire Sam Reinhart.

So yeah...Many ways to build, but if your GM isn't drafting well you ain't getting to the finish line. Period.

I chose that date specifically bc they already had those players, yet the following EIGHT drafts they have ONE drafted player on the SC roster.

They literally whiffed at drafting for years to supplement those 3 players, they relied on UFA and trading away future picks…to backfill their poor drafting of the prior 7/8 years.

So, yes, there’s more than one way to build a team. The suck forever and play Bantam hockey hasn’t yielded anything, yet soon to be franchise UFAs maybe walking out the door soon.

 

[doublechili]

I wouldn’t even be against adding another high quality center. Run Horvat, xxxxx, Nelson down the middle. Gives you 3 scoring lines still, and flexibility to stack a line when down late in a game.

Sure, if they'd rather do that than move Barzal to the wing, that's fine. Everyone talks about the wings, but (leaving Sorokin's down year aside) the biggest problems with the team last year may have been the lack of production from the 3rd (and 4th) line (especially JGP) and the lack of a PMD on the 2nd D pair.

There's something to be said for wearing a team down. It's physically and mentally tiring when the opposition keeps on rolling out lines that can score, or at least keep the puck in your D zone. As a result, a good 3rd line makes your top 2 lines better.