Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVIII - Dust in the wind…

[NYR Viper]

Strome is not anywhere near Scheifele's league. Strome with an extension would be far worse for this team then trading assets for a wholly better player.




Yes. Ryan Strome has never been a point per game player in his life and he plays with Panarin, especially when you could get another team to hold salary and make him even cheaper.

So let's talk through that first point. I see people who are afraid of Strome's next contract which will start at 29. Scheifele is signed for (2) more seasons, at a higher cap, and will become a UFA at 31. I'm sure he will be looking at a longer term contract at that point. Will that be good contract?

You're second point is valid, however the other team isn't just going to retain salary for nothing. So now you are discussing a higher price tag

 

[Savant]

And some people just need a kick in the ass to get the message.

Sure. But Rod Brind’Amour has the credibility to give that message. David Quinn - not so much.

 

[NYR Viper]

There's a quantitative and pretty distinct difference between

1) Being better than Strome on balance.

2) Being better than Strome by a wide enough margin to justify the use of several high quality cost controlled assets to upgrade on him.

And this is really what it comes down to for me. When we were discussing Eichel, sure, I get it. Scheifele? Eh, is he better? Yes. Is he THAT much better? I don't think so.

Devils advocate - scheifele is also the more physical player with far more playoff experience.

This is also incredibly true. Now devils advocate to your devils advocate, do we want to invest in the more physical player with lots of mileage on him to withstand physically moving forward as he ages?

his offense is most definitely better... his defense, believe it or not, is definitely worse.

Even if we say their defensive games are identical, which they aren't, I don't love the cost to acquire him for the slight improvement we are likely to see.

 

[nyaz11]

Plus also losing Strome.

It isn't being better than Strome in a vacuum. Is he better than Strome to the tune of 1 of our best prospects, another good prospect, and a 1st round pick?

Offensively? No, you cannot say that he is that much better.

Defensively? He has completely fallen off there.

Not to mention we already know how well Strome meshes with the team. He has grown to fit the personality and the mentality. That isn't to discredit Scheifele and say that he can't too, but the jury is out there.

Offensivley, MS is in a different league than Ryan Strome offensively. Strome has been a wonderful fit with Panarin. His best season is worse than MS worst season over the last 5 years.

Mark Scheifele is a top 20 offensive talent in the NHL. This isn't Sean Monahan, etc. If you can get MS - you do so and don't look back - his offensive numbers compare favorably to Zibanejad - forget about Strome.

If you told me we could fit Strome and Copp under the cap together - sure I could see that argument. A Strome extension - at MOST and this is being extremely optimistic - at MOST 1 million dollars less than MS. The difference is negligible. Which makes MS the much better option.

The asset loss will hurt - but worth it for a player of this caliber on that contract. Your top 6 will be set with Goodrow and Blais in the bottom-6 --- you find a way to find energy and top defensive players with the scraps - and the Barron's and Cuylle's of the world fit that mold perfectly.

 

[Savant]

Devils advocate - scheifele is also the more physical player with far more playoff experience.

Devils devils advocate. Jets want to get rid of Scheifele BECAUSE of his playoff experience

 

[Blais to Win]

Is anyone else surprised that Evander Kane hasn't absolutely destroyed the Oilers room yet? I was told he is this huge cancer. Everyone hates him - especially GM Ryan Reaves. You wouldn't want him on your team. He's selfish and not a guy you win with. Yet, if I'm reading things correctly the Oilers are 5-2-1 since they signed him and he has 6 points in 8 games? Playing a heavy game with 32 hits, shooting the puck a ton, and scoring. Been on the ice for 5 GF and 1 GA so far. They've even trusted him on a line with McDavid or Draisaitl and he hasn't managed to damage their careers yet. I guess we couldn't have used him because he's strictly a LW and, as we know, moving a player from LW to RW is the toughest position change in - and across - sports.

Lol. Wow.

Kane's Wiki.

Hope he stays clean.

 

[IDvsEGO]

And this is really what it comes down to for me. When we were discussing Eichel, sure, I get it. Scheifele? Eh, is he better? Yes. Is he THAT much better? I don't think so.



This is also incredibly true. Now devils advocate to your devils advocate, do we want to invest in the more physical player with lots of mileage on him to withstand physically moving forward as he ages?



Even if we say their defensive games are identical, which they aren't, I don't love the cost to acquire him for the slight improvement we are likely to see.

I mean It depends on what you consider an investment.
For this year acquiring him likely means strome either slides to the wing or the third line. Giving us a much deeper lineup.


His contract for the next 2 seasons is probably in line with what strome would’ve gotten on a deep discount to stay in nyc, but without extra risk on the backend for a declining player in his 30s.

scheifele has more mileage, but is also more physically suited for the style of game he plays. It may also free Panarin where they don’t need a grinder on the same line, thus giving us more offensive pop on the second.


There’s always risk/reward.
It depends what the offer is. But scheifele fits the two separate windows we have, especially with that Mika contract.

scheifele’s contract expires when we can move Trouba and Kreider.
So we could pay our kids and maybe get a center.
strome will likely want a 7 -8year deal which would hinder any such option even on a discount.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Devils devils advocate. Jets want to get rid of Scheifele BECAUSE of his playoff experience

He got his ass suspended. Cost his team a series. Dumbass move.
Kadri is looking at a massive payday when he’s done that for 3 years in a row.

 

[nyaz11]

And this is really what it comes down to for me. When we were discussing Eichel, sure, I get it. Scheifele? Eh, is he better? Yes. Is he THAT much better? I don't think so.



This is also incredibly true. Now devils advocate to your devils advocate, do we want to invest in the more physical player with lots of mileage on him to withstand physically moving forward as he ages?



Even if we say their defensive games are identical, which they aren't, I don't love the cost to acquire him for the slight improvement we are likely to see.

Granted Eichel is younger -- but MS scores at a very similar rate to Eichel. Now I understand Eichel being the face for years - but Eichel would have come at the expense as Mika ... MS comes in addition to Mika, which is a huge bonus.

I think it would be much easier to find defensive oriented bottom 6-ers than it would be to replace the offense MS will bring at again - a negligible contract difference to Strome's next contract.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Rangers' Patrik Nemeth dealing with lingering effects of COVID-19

 

[RangersFan1994]

If we're talking Winnipeg Centers, Scheifele is behind PLD and Copp IMO

I’d take PLD over Scheifele

 

[IDvsEGO]

I’d take PLD over Scheifele

So would every team in the league, which is why they’d even consider moving scheifle.

 

[duhmetreE]

Need = Speedy/industrious 2way center.

HF solution = Eichel and Scheifele

 

[TheBloodyNine]

So let's talk through that first point. I see people who are afraid of Strome's next contract which will start at 29. Scheifele is signed for (2) more seasons, at a higher cap, and will become a UFA at 31. I'm sure he will be looking at a longer term contract at that point. Will that be good contract?

You're second point is valid, however the other team isn't just going to retain salary for nothing. So now you are discussing a higher price tag

Absolutely to the bolded, but we have the assets to make that happen, and there are teams that are ready, willing and able to do so for draft picks, which will start to become more readily available currency for this team.

 

[Savant]

He got his ass suspended. Cost his team a series. Dumbass move.
Kadri is looking at a massive payday when he’s done that for 3 years in a row.

Not the same. Kadri by all accounts can play playoff hockey. Scheifele not so much. Scheifele feels like a trap. He was their first pick when the team moved back to Canada, there is a Dale Hawerchuk connection. This is not a player that should be available and it is extremely telling if he is going because Winnipeg thinks they need centers with PLD and Copp style games to win and not Schileifele kind of game. Way too many red flags here

 

[duhmetreE]

Not the same. Kadri by all accounts can play playoff hockey. Scheifele not so much. Scheifele feels like a trap. He was their first pick when the team moved back to Canada, there is a Dale Hawerchuk connection. This is not a player that should be available and it is extremely telling if he is going because Winnipeg thinks they need centers with PLD and Copp style games to win and not Schileifele kind of game. Way too many red flags here

I'd rather have one of them

 

[Savant]

I'd rather have one of them

So would Winnipeg. That’s why I am staying far away from Scheifele.

 

[nyaz11]

Not the same. Kadri by all accounts can play playoff hockey. Scheifele not so much. Scheifele feels like a trap. He was their first pick when the team moved back to Canada, there is a Dale Hawerchuk connection. This is not a player that should be available and it is extremely telling if he is going because Winnipeg thinks they need centers with PLD and Copp style games to win and not Schileifele kind of game. Way too many red flags here

Where is this idea coming from that he can't play in the playoffs? He has 31 points in 33 career playoff games. It holds no water. Copp is not a comparable player to MS - he's a middle-6 player - the return on MS is going to be vastly greater - if he's available - that's the reason why - you can get the pieces for a reset by dealing MS - the same could not be said of dealing Copp.

PLD gives them a larger window if they're going younger - this isn't rocket science.

 

[Zynbanejad]

I want Strome gone mostly because of that SO attempt last game….

Jk he’ll do for now

 

[Savant]

Where is this idea coming from that he can't play in the playoffs? He has 31 points in 33 career playoff games. It holds no water. Copp is not a comparable player to MS - he's a middle-6 player - the return on MS is going to be vastly greater - if he's available - that's the reason why - you can get the pieces for a reset by dealing MS - the same could not be said of dealing Copp.

PLD gives them a larger window if they're going younger - this isn't rocket science.

You are only looking at goals and assists. Go to the Winnipeg board and take a look at what they think. Winnipeg wants to deal MS so they have cap space to sign AC. Not rocket science. You don’t put your 1C up to sign a middle six C unless something is rotten. 1C don’t become available unless something very weird is going on. Scheifele is a sports center player. He flashes highlights and will put points up but there are some holes in his game and he has had some bad injuries. I’m staying away.

 

[SA16]

Scheifele is too big to be a top six center on a team with Stanley Cup hopes.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Where is this idea coming from that he can't play in the playoffs? He has 31 points in 33 career playoff games. It holds no water. Copp is not a comparable player to MS - he's a middle-6 player - the return on MS is going to be vastly greater - if he's available - that's the reason why - you can get the pieces for a reset by dealing MS - the same could not be said of dealing Copp.

PLD gives them a larger window if they're going younger - this isn't rocket science.

Also not Rocket Science: Winnipeg isn't gonna trade PLD

 

[Fitzy]

I'd pay a small fortune to get Colton Sissons on this team but Nashville would be mad to trade him.

Have to think Cody Glass could be had for the right price, however.

 

[IDvsEGO]

You are only looking at goals and assists. Go to the Winnipeg board and take a look at what they think. Winnipeg wants to deal MS so they have cap space to sign AC. Not rocket science. You don’t put your 1C up to sign a middle six C unless something is rotten. 1C don’t become available unless something very weird is going on. Scheifele is a sports center player. He flashes highlights and will put points up but there are some holes in his game and he has had some bad injuries. I’m staying away.

I feel like with the exception of Matthews and maybe mcdavid every player in the nhl has holes in their game.

wpg fans are likely looking at the future as pld, and saying the same thing we did in 18, move things now before we get stuck.

 

[Levitate]

Rangers' Patrik Nemeth dealing with lingering effects of COVID-19

I wondered if that was the case