Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVIII - Dust in the wind…

[SA16]

Didn't Carolina win it in 06 after missing on 02-03, 03-04 and the lock out of 04-05?

It also seems odd in a way to not count the qualifying round. Weren't we in a position to make the playoffs when the season got canned? So we scrap in, get smacked in the 1st round but have now met the criteria of 'making the playoffs in the past two years', you can then magic wand last season away with 'covid' and we've ticked the boxes. I can't see how the qualifies are really any different to Pitt's 1 playoff win in 5 years prior to making the SCF and losing to the Wings

It actually makes perfect sense if you think about it to not count the qualifying round.

Doesn't fit the story.

Additionally you are correct. In 02-03 the Canes were the worst team in the league. In 0304 they were 11th in the conference. In 0506 they won the Stanley Cup.

 

[egelband]

Just watched that Toronto game.

Their defense is a mess…as usual.

Their goaltending is now starting to feel the effects of the defense and is struggling.

They are too top heavy. Not enough balance. Adding another forward is so far down on the list of their needs.

Was going to say this too. If the Leafs don’t get Chiarot and another strong defensive player, they’re out to lunch. It has been clear since McDonagh was available. The Leafs have no heartbeat. Matthews is actually one of their only real bulldogs and that’s not what he should be focusing on. Muzzin was a good add, but he is severely banged up.

 

[McRanger92]

I think a similar scale of package can land you either Miller or Scheifele, IF both were to be on the table. The question is, which team would be willing to retain and how much AND what would that require us to add.

That financial flexibility may not allow us to retain Strome in the offseason, but it could allow us to bring in a quality 3C behind Scheifele. For example, Andrew Copp.

Agreed. I believe this is the organizations line of thinking as well. Adding a Miller/Scheifele type to this team with Igor/Fox/Panarin at the height of their power for 2-3 playoff runs has tremendous on-ice value to the Rangers

 

[Anthony5967]

Blackwell skating on a Kraken team’s depleted fourth line. Not even top-6 here. Quinn had him playing second line over Kakko and Laf. Gorton and Davidson approved, of course, yet Drury gets trolled constantly. It…doesn’t make sense. Jacques Martin let go and Gord Murphy promoted, better defensive structure. Sure, Igor being as good helps, but one can’t question how much better they’ve been in comparison to last year.

 

[mike14]

Great anecdote. And really, I think it’s not possible for a team to make that jump without a year or two of playoff failure. I’m certainly thrilled and impressed with what the team is doing this year and I think they’re legit. But also having been through the early 90s…even teams with messier have a playoff learning curve.

But how much learning do you need across the team? As constructed we've got 2 x former cup winners, 2 x SCF losers, another 2 x players who've been the conference finals and even Mika who's lost in the 2nd round twice. Does their experience and failures carry over, or does it only count if they played together in Rangers blue? And what about if add another veteran or two with cup experience?

Winning the Stanley Cup is stupidly difficult and takes an immense amount of skill, fortitude and fortune. But there's not, and never has been, one way to get it done.
It's unlikely that the Rangers win the Cup this year, but it won't be because they haven't had a 2nd round exit in a few years; it'll be because when we stack up skill, fortitude and fortune they are lacking compared to at least one other team. And even when we've amassed the critical amount of those three things that we think we need, there's still a chance they don't win it all.

 

[egelband]

If the rangers are trading a bunch of assets for a trade it HAS to be someone who will be here longer than a year and a half.

The rangers have the pieces to put together a huge package for a good center, with term, and salary retention to help him fit.

Picture like a Ryan Johansson or Stamkos at 50% retention type situation.

I don’t think we should blow our cupboard up for anything less than 3 and a half cost controlled years in whatever forward we trade for.

I think this may be what happens. Drury will overpay but he may end up with a nice center at 50%. Not necessarily Miller. But someone with two or three more years. Maybe even the super-rare sign-and-trade? I shudder to think what would be going the other way. 1st, Kravtsov, Lundkvist…for a signed youngish vet center. A guy who fits in between Panarin and the youngsters on the timeline.

 

[eco's bones]

Rangers squeaked out the game against Ottawa the other night but the Senators have turned themselves into a tough team to beat even when they’re playing 10 games in 16 nights. They’re defending well and getting good goaltending from Forsberg. You’re going to have a real tough night if you take them for granted. They’re kind of in a similar place to where we were in the play in year—getting a good lift in the second half of the season.

 

[egelband]

But how much learning do you need across the team? As constructed we've got 2 x former cup winners, 2 x SCF losers, another 2 x players who've been the conference finals and even Mika who's lost in the 2nd round twice. Does their experience and failures carry over, or does it only count if they played together in Rangers blue? And what about if add another veteran or two with cup experience?

Winning the Stanley Cup is stupidly difficult and takes an immense amount of skill, fortitude and fortune. But there's not, and never has been, one way to get it done.
It's unlikely that the Rangers win the Cup this year, but it won't be because they haven't had a 2nd round exit in a few years; it'll be because when we stack up skill, fortitude and fortune they are lacking compared to at least one other team. And even when we've amassed the critical amount of those three things that we think we need, there's still a chance they don't win it all.

For sure. Definitely no one way. I just don’t think it’s happening this year. The lack of playoff experience as a team and also the lack of five-on-five scoring. And that doesn’t bother me. I’d consider one round win a great result and two rounds, amazing.
But maybe you’re right. Maybe the imported experience bubbles up. Also, Igor is a major wildcard.

 

[Fitzy]

I think this may be what happens. Drury will overpay but he may end up with a nice center at 50%. Not necessarily Miller. But someone with two or three more years. Maybe even the super-rare sign-and-trade? I shudder to think what would be going the other way. 1st, Kravtsov, Lundkvist…for a signed youngish vet center. A guy who fits in between Panarin and the youngsters on the timeline.

It would be expensive but I’d rather pay out the wazoo for a long term low cap piece instead of trading them all for rentals.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Are Rangers fans still worried that this team especially in the top 6 is too finesse heavy and doesn’t play a power game or a grinding type of game, outside of Kreider. No one is concerned that the grit the Rangers acquired in the offseason and last year are all on the bottom lines? We don’t want to end up like the Maple Leafs. At least our defense and goaltending is better. I also think we can use more guys that are good along the boards. That is very important in the playoffs.

 

[egelband]

It would be expensive but I’d rather pay out the wazoo for a long term low cap piece instead of trading them all for rentals.

I doubt Drury would move our top prospects and frp for pure rentals. Id think the options are trading lower picks for guys on expiring deals, like Kessel for example. Or trading our big chips for similar young pieces. Like Lundkvist for a
Center prospect on the doorstep (whoever that may be). I was just suggesting a third option. But I appreciate it would cost a lot and also require some creativity which we have yet to see displayed.

 

[Anthony5967]

I think this may be what happens. Drury will overpay but he may end up with a nice center at 50%. Not necessarily Miller. But someone with two or three more years. Maybe even the super-rare sign-and-trade? I shudder to think what would be going the other way. 1st, Kravtsov, Lundkvist…for a signed youngish vet center. A guy who fits in between Panarin and the youngsters on the timeline.

I don’t know what team is trading a young C, though. A Miller, scheifele is what I’d do.

 

[smoneil]

Didn't Carolina win it in 06 after missing on 02-03, 03-04 and the lock out of 04-05?

It also seems odd in a way to not count the qualifying round. Weren't we in a position to make the playoffs when the season got canned? So we scrap in, get smacked in the 1st round but have now met the criteria of 'making the playoffs in the past two years', you can then magic wand last season away with 'covid' and we've ticked the boxes. I can't see how the qualifies are really any different to Pitt's 1 playoff win in 5 years prior to making the SCF and losing to the Wings

They did. I didn't go back 100+ years, but I did go 30+ (into the 1980s). Carolina is the only team to win the Cup after missing the playoffs two years prior. They also had the lockout to re-set and re-work their roster. That was also a VERY strange season, because the new rules were called tightly, opening up a ton of space for smaller skill players (Carolina had several). Also, the last time Carolina had made the playoffs (two seasons prior), they went to the Stanley Cup final. All told, it was a very unlikely situation by all standards. Other than Carolina, no team won the Cup (and I don't think many/any even went to the Cup) the season after missing the playoffs for more than one year (again, going back into the 1980s).

As for the play-in, that's a tough one. They made a big stink at the time about how those "weren't playoff games," but sites like ESPN still list those stats as playoff stats. It's an oddity. Would the Rangers have made the playoffs? Who knows. They played three games after a MASSIVE layoff. It just didn't feel like playoff conditions. Regardless, that was two years ago now.

The history of the league shows that the vast majority of Cup winners had several consecutive trips to the playoffs before closing the deal. Winning it after missing the year before is rare. Winning it after missing two years before is a freaking unicorn. Winning it after missing 3+ in a row? I don't know if it's ever happened, but if it has, 99% of us weren't alive for it.

 

[egelband]

I don’t know what team is trading a young C, though. A Miller, scheifele is what I’d do.

That’s why I assume we’d have to pay through the nose. But better to overpay for the right piece than settle for leftovers. But anyhow, it’s just speculation.

 

[smoneil]

But how much learning do you need across the team? As constructed we've got 2 x former cup winners, 2 x SCF losers, another 2 x players who've been the conference finals and even Mika who's lost in the 2nd round twice. Does their experience and failures carry over, or does it only count if they played together in Rangers blue? And what about if add another veteran or two with cup experience?

Winning the Stanley Cup is stupidly difficult and takes an immense amount of skill, fortitude and fortune. But there's not, and never has been, one way to get it done.
It's unlikely that the Rangers win the Cup this year, but it won't be because they haven't had a 2nd round exit in a few years; it'll be because when we stack up skill, fortitude and fortune they are lacking compared to at least one other team. And even when we've amassed the critical amount of those three things that we think we need, there's still a chance they don't win it all.

There is a difference between individual experience and team experience. The Rangers tried that "importing experience" approach once before when they went out and signed a bunch of former captains (Keane and Skrudland) to try and right the ship. Some things a team just has to go through together.

 

[Alluckks]

22 goals for Sam Bennett. How many questions about this team would be answered now if Gorton was more opportunistic last year? Can Andrew Copp be that type of player here with an expanded role? Gritty guy with size who can play C/W in the top 9

Andrew Copp is a UFA who will be asking for Danault's contract as a starting point

Sam Bennett was an underperforming RFA

I get what you are going for but the comparison is a miss

 

[Lgrsean]

I think a similar scale of package can land you either Miller or Scheifele, IF both were to be on the table. The question is, which team would be willing to retain and how much AND what would that require us to add.

That financial flexibility may not allow us to retain Strome in the offseason, but it could allow us to bring in a quality 3C behind Scheifele. For example, Andrew Copp.

Are there many trades where a team retained enough salary as long as we would need the Jets to retain on Scheifele in order to sign Copp?

I think it's possible for Vancouver to retain next year on Miller, but Winnipeg would need to retain for a year on top of that. To me the ideal scenario would be to trade for Miller @ 50% and then sign Copp in the offseason to replace Strome.

Next year:
Kreider/Mika/Laf
Bread/Miller/Kakko
Goodrow/Copp/Chytil
Hunt/Barron/Reaves
Gettinger

Lindgren/Fox
Miller/Trouba
Jones/Schneider
Hajek

Igor
Kinkaid

 

[Lgrsean]

Andrew Copp is a UFA who will be asking for Danault's contract as a starting point

Sam Bennett was an underperforming RFA

I get what you are going for but the comparison is a miss

Do you think a team would give Copp the Danault contract??

 

[IDvsEGO]

I’m not following that logic.

refs call less penalties in the playoffs but most of the reduced calls are even strength calls so teams get just as many power play opportunities as regular season

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Are Rangers fans still worried that this team especially in the top 6 is too finesse heavy and doesn’t play a power game or a grinding type of game, outside of Kreider. No one is concerned that the grit the Rangers acquired in the offseason and last year are all on the bottom lines? We don’t want to end up like the Maple Leafs. At least our defense and goaltending is better. I also think we can use more guys that are good along the boards. That is very important in the playoffs.

I’m very worried and concerned about the top 6 going into the playoffs. The Rangers and Leafs have similar issues in that their top guys play the run and gun perimeter style game. It’s also going to depend on who the Rangers match up against. I think this team needs 2 forwards and an extra veteran d at the deadline. Kakko should be relegated to the third line when he comes back so it eases him into things with more favorable matchups, plus let’s be honest he hasn’t done shit to earn top 6 anyway. At least Laf is showing improvement.

 

[McRanger92]

Blackwell skating on a Kraken team’s depleted fourth line. Not even top-6 here. Quinn had him playing second line over Kakko and Laf. Gorton and Davidson approved, of course, yet Drury gets trolled constantly. It…doesn’t make sense. Jacques Martin let go and Gord Murphy promoted, better defensive structure. Sure, Igor being as good helps, but one can’t question how much better they’ve been in comparison to last year.

Jury is out on Drury still ( i think hes paying for a lot of the sins of his predecessor), but everything the Gorton/JD/Quinn braintrust did after Covid hit was an unmitigated disaster. Its still hard for me to get over them moving Fast/Staal/Henrik so they could pay DeAngelo/Lemieux/Georgiev.

 

[McRanger92]

Andrew Copp is a UFA who will be asking for Danault's contract as a starting point

Sam Bennett was an underperforming RFA

I get what you are going for but the comparison is a miss

I don't think Copp gets anywhere close to that with the amount of centers on the market this summer and the lack of available cap space around the league. But yeah my greater point was just that they need that style of player

 

[I Eat Crow]

Do you think a team would give Copp the Danault contract??

I would for f***ing sure.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

A lot of these proposals need to go to armchair GM

 

[Lgrsean]

I would for f***ing sure.

I just look at darnault as a more consistent scorer, better defensive player, and a more prominent part of his team in their playoff runs than copp. At the same time, I’d like the rangers to sign copp.