Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVII: It's the Final Countdown

[aufheben]

Couldn't the zone exit issue also be partially the result of his partner? The fewer good options he has to move the puck, the more often he's going to try to force a play and forcing plays leads to passes that are too hard or off target. I don't know exactly where to look for this, but what were Trouba's numbers last year?

I'm not exactly unwilling to be critical of Trouba. I just think that what we said at the beginning... that he is a #2 D, still a first pair D but not the anchor of the first pair, would still hold true and a lot of Trouba's struggles are likely attributable to him having to essentially be the #1. I want to see him with a real 1st pairing partner, but we don't have that available.

Everyone looks better when they slot in the proper role.

It could be. His Possession Exit% was 35% last year. His Shot Assists were above-average last year, and are poor this year. Still, I frequently notice him mess up his outlet passes even when not under pressure. He has to lead the team in icings.

On for icings
Fox: 67
Trouba: 105
DeAngelo: 70
Staal: 51
Lindgren: 53
Skjei: 110

 

[Tawnos]

It could be. His Possession Exit% was 35% last year. His Shot Assists were above-average last year, and are poor this year. Still, I frequently notice him mess up his outlet passes even when not under pressure. He has to lead the team in icings.

I'm not talking situations of him being under pressure, really. More along the lines of his partner the one not being in a good place to receive a pass, so he has to switch to more uncertain options more often. I think that could possibly explain some of the difference compared to last year. But the difference is fairly marginal.

 

[Fugazy]

Not sure if posted already, but that is highly encouraging!!

You certainly like to see that.

 

[pld459666]

The last few years CBJ fans on HFB kept mentioning a stiff that was glued to Panarin and had abnormal numbers because of that. I cant remember who, but their concerns about that players trade value and contract worth are just a valid as any we bring up with Strome.

I dont want to see Panarin become Gaborik. We need him to click with likewise talent as he did with Kane. Driving a line of dead pylons isn't going to win us Cups.

Forget just affecting Panarins game, but also the D that are on the ice in conjunction. You cant expect ADA or Fox to be Panarins only weapons.
Strome and Fast aren't cutting it.

The only player that fits the description you mention is Josh Anderson

No one else did in Cbus what Strome is doing here in NY

We will agree to disagree

 

[Ola]

The only player that fors the description you mention is Josh Anderson

No one else did in Cbus what Strome is doing here in NY

We will agree to disagree

Who did Panarin mostly play with in Columbus? I can’t remember...

 

[Fugazy]

Who did Panarin mostly play with in Columbus? I can’t remember...

I think it was Pierre-Luc Dubois and Bjorkstrand.

 

[pld459666]

Who did Panarin mostly play with in Columbus? I can’t remember...

Not sure, but Atkinson was a 60 point player before Panarin.

There's really no one that jumps out as having abnormally high production outside of Josh Anderson and I do not know If they played together much

 

[mike14]

I think it was Pierre-Luc Dubois and Bjorkstrand.

PLD and Atkinson according to natural stattrick (at least 5v5)

 

[leetch99]

Cap increases...the demand by every player that is looking for new deals increases . One or two guys drive the market and then every GM as a rule follows suit. Somedays I wish it was like the old days and we never talked about the money side of but rather just the hockey side of things and let the $$$'s stay between the player and the team .

 

[ElLeetch]

Cap increases...the demand by every player that is looking for new deals increases . One or two guys drive the market and then every GM as a rule follows suit. Somedays I wish it was like the old days and we never talked about the money side of but rather just the hockey side of things and let the $$$'s stay between the player and the team .

The worst part about the Salary Cap is, it made fans care and argue over millionaires fighting against billionaires.

Half of this message board is arguing over financials now. Its a much worse life for fans.

 

[DutchShamrock]

The worst part about the Salary Cap is, it made fans care and argue over millionaires fighting against billionaires.

Half of this message board is arguing over financials now. Its a much worse life for fans.

It is a shame that a player's cap hit impacts the appreciation for what a player does on the ice.

 

[haohmaru]

The worst part about the Salary Cap is, it made fans care and argue over millionaires fighting against billionaires.

Half of this message board is arguing over financials now. Its a much worse life for fans.

Look at the derision aimed at Lundqvist - it's all about money and f*** the legacy. The above is 100% correct.

 

[LokiDog]

Cap increases...the demand by every player that is looking for new deals increases . One or two guys drive the market and then every GM as a rule follows suit. Somedays I wish it was like the old days and we never talked about the money side of but rather just the hockey side of things and let the $$$'s stay between the player and the team .

Amen, in a cap world it’s all salary comparables and projecting next contracts. Is it worth it to keep X player for Y years if he’s going to cost Z% of the cap, etc.

It’s a consideration, but it’s not really our consideration. As die hard fans, it’s impossible to ignore but in a non cap world 100% would be happy keeping Kreider or letting Hank back up Shesty next year. Instead we’re split on players who have tenure and legacy with our team and were once fan favorites.

 

[Barnaby]

No, no....what is a terrible hot take is a poster boasting about how this guy is a 70 point player when he has never been that in his career. Does he have 70 points this year away from Panarin? Does he? If you cannot say yes, then please put all this garbage nonsense to the side. Dont call me out for being critical of a player that has been a mirage this season having some of you hypnotized by his higher than normal point total compared to his career norm. He has benefited greatly from playing with Panarin. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Cut the crap already. As I said, wonderful he has pumped up his points this year...yea well means nothing to me when he commits the most frustrating, lazy stick penalties and has stupid unacceptable decisions on the ice that directly led to goals against and robbed the team of extra points. Unacceptable. Plain and simple. I can live without a player like that. This isnt some rookie making mistakes. This is his 7th year in the league.

Is he putting up 70 without Panarin? Of course not. However, he is putting up 70 points which I think we can agree is nothing to sneeze at. Are we criticizing guys for having chemistry? Straka excelled with Jagr... did we say screw Straka- he’s only this good because of Jagr... or did we say these guys have chemistry together and make each other better - let’s keep this going. Panarin is having his best statistical year to date so why are we dumping the guy he’s performing with? Drop him off the roster and which guy is a slam dunk to equal his chemistry with Panarin or point production? He’s a perfect age to be a vet on this team and should be in or entering his prime. Listen, if he has an unrealistic number like 6 x 6 in mind then goodbye. If he says I’ve played in the tri state area for awhile, I’m in a great professional situation, and I’m happy so I’d like to stay and will take 4.5 for 3-4 years then why in gods name wouldn’t you take it? His point totals would be a bargain at that price.

 

[Avery16]

It's not true I coach major midget (u18) here and it's all the kids are talking about now because they are trying to make it to major junior. You ask then why they held on to the puck instead of dumping it in and they point to their possession numbers, had one kid hang on to the puck for most of the pp and had to bench him for it, and that's only at the midget level, players know now and it's happening more than you know.

I guess not all trends in midget hockey translate to the NHL.

 

[Barnaby]

there is some truth to that lol.

Being Strome’s numbers are good and he’s a RFA likely facing arbitration I’m concerned he’ll be rewarded above his value. I wish he was moved at the deadline and an weary the org kept too many pieces in place rather than have one more sell off.

anyway, the internet is what it is. I’ll never understand why some go on the attack as if one player dumped them on prom night and now they’re dating the other. Maybe it’s my age yet I can’t recall ever being so emotional over a player.

Personally I’d have traded CK because that contract scares me and I’d have listened on Strome. Pay my price and he’s yours otherwise I’d try to extend him prior to arbitration on a team friendly deal. If he goes to arbitration then I’d be listening next year...

 

[SA16]

It's not true I coach major midget (u18) here and it's all the kids are talking about now because they are trying to make it to major junior. You ask then why they held on to the puck instead of dumping it in and they point to their possession numbers, had one kid hang on to the puck for most of the pp and had to bench him for it, and that's only at the midget level, players know now and it's happening more than you know.

It will be blatantly obvious to anyone analyzing the game. It will not make their numbers look any better.

 

[Irishguy42]

It's not true I coach major midget (u18) here and it's all the kids are talking about now because they are trying to make it to major junior. You ask then why they held on to the puck instead of dumping it in and they point to their possession numbers, had one kid hang on to the puck for most of the pp and had to bench him for it, and that's only at the midget level, players know now and it's happening more than you know.

Most, if not all, possession analytics are based on shot attempts and actually doing things with the puck. Not holding onto it and skating around in the offensive zone, unless it's related to zone exits/entries. That may/may not change with the advent of puck/jersey tracking, but for now, that's what we have in the public domain, and I'm sure that's where this kid is looking at.

If your kid is skating around with the puck on his stick during a full PP, then that's not him gaming his possession numbers and analytics. That's just a kid not knowing what he's talking about, which at a midget level isn't all that surprising b/c they're dumbass teenagers (which is fine, tbh. we were all idiots at that point)

Maybe you could turn this into a coaching opportunity and teach the kids that if they want to "up their analyticzzzzzz" they should shoot the puck more.

Also lol just generally comparing midget to NHL

 

[Irishguy42]

You certainly like to see that.

inb4 $83M cap and a bunch of tweets from insidersssssssss saying "welp, it came below expectations oh well back to the cottage"

 

[Raspewtin]

Lindgren & Fox had the least amount of ES TOI last night among the 6 dmen...quinn has shown complete confidence in that pair but also has done a good job of protecting them and not trying to ask them to do too much as rookies.

whats the line between “protecting rookies” and “throwing the game because you’re not playing your best players”?

 

[haohmaru]

Also lol just generally comparing midget to NHL

Is that what you got from what he said? Because to me it reads like he's concerned that players at that age/level are already thinking/worried about Corsi. I seriously doubt he's comparing the NHL and midget at any level.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Is he putting up 70 without Panarin? Of course not. However, he is putting up 70 points which I think we can agree is nothing to sneeze at. Are we criticizing guys for having chemistry? Straka excelled with Jagr... did we say screw Straka- he’s only this good because of Jagr... or did we say these guys have chemistry together and make each other better - let’s keep this going. Panarin is having his best statistical year to date so why are we dumping the guy he’s performing with? Drop him off the roster and which guy is a slam dunk to equal his chemistry with Panarin or point production? He’s a perfect age to be a vet on this team and should be in or entering his prime. Listen, if he has an unrealistic number like 6 x 6 in mind then goodbye. If he says I’ve played in the tri state area for awhile, I’m in a great professional situation, and I’m happy so I’d like to stay and will take 4.5 for 3-4 years then why in gods name wouldn’t you take it? His point totals would be a bargain at that price.

Can you imagine Panarin's numbers if he had real goal scorers as linemates?

 

[Avery16]

Can you imagine Panarin's numbers if he had real goal scorers as linemates?

I can imagine not being able to attract or support real goal scorers if we give a player like Strome 4x5 instead.

 

[Irishguy42]

Is that what you got from what he said? Because to me it reads like he's concerned that players at that age/level are already thinking/worried about Corsi. I seriously doubt he's comparing the NHL and midget at any level.

Sounds like you didn't read the rest of what I wrote where I discussed that. Good talk.

 

[Fitzy]

All Panarin really needs on his right wing is a Matt Moulson/Jonathan Cheechoo/Petr Prucha type.

A pure finisher. Doesn't really need to be good at anything else.