Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVII - 5 weeks until TDL

[mas0764]

Yeah but do the Rangers need KAM to be a star?

The Rangers probably need another 1D type besides Fox.

Most Cup winners have two.

Do they need him to be one to be a playoff team? No. Do they need him to be one to be a Cup winner? Probably.

You would have to pay him like one. If he tops out as a top 4 defender who can play top 2 minutes (and he already has at the age of 22), it would be great to retain that flexibility on the back end.

I don't disagree but they also need a center. We are in this conundrum of having to rob Peter to pay Paul because of our previous foolish choices.

I would be hesitant to move him, not because im afraid of what he might become, but what he already has proven at such a young age. Thats what this rebuild has been all about - and they traded up to get him. I'd hate to abandoned that so quickly

I'm hesitant too but the rebuild isn't just about him. It's also about Schneider and Othmann. I don't want to trade two B+ prospects instead of one A- prospect. If Miller was a sure A+, that's another thing, but I'm not sure he is.

 

[McRanger92]

What do people think Copp would cost?

im advocating DeHann, Copp, and either Larsson or Jankrok

De Haan is baaaaad. Chicago is on TNT all the time and he gets cooked with regularity, he'd quickly become a whipping boy here. Really like Copp & Jarnkrok. Screw Larsson, no interest after he went after Fox, also has a rep as a miserable prick

 

[surlysailor]

If I’m VAN, I’m asking for Lafreniere and Schneider in this deal. And yeah, Miller is worth it cause it gives NYR a PROVEN monster performer for 2 playoff runs. All’s he does is score and set up other guys who score.
Look what CGY just gave up for Toffoli.

LoL
I mean they can ask for it, but it'll never happen. When was the last time a 1st or 2nd overall player was traded for a year and half rental who will price himself out? I've been saying for a while look to the Yandle deal as a likely comp.
Most likely the deal will be something like a 1st, Krav & one of Gauthier/Jones/Barron/Robertson/Chytil.

 

[mas0764]

The rebuild isn’t even technically over.

Glad to hear that. No need to buy at this deadline then.

 

[bleedblue94]

I don't see how they can do anything bigger if they deplete their assets for making a bigger move. If we trade Nils/Krav/1st for Miller we aren't gonna be able to turn around a deal Chytil/Jones/Othmann for a center. We'd have nothing left.

I personally dont think kravtsov or nils hold the incredible value that some here think. I dont want to get debating that. I wouldnt have an issue moving them for a player that helps tremendously for two playoff runs. I would dream of finding a way to gte garland added to the deal somehow. If needed in 2 years when miller is gone the rangers have time to acquire more assets and further develop their own players and REALLY work the ncaa free agent pool

 

[mas0764]

The Rangers Should absolutely trade for Roope Hintz or Elias Pettersson type players. The problem that you conveniently ignore is that other teams have to actually be willing to deal and agree to a price. Eichel was this guy and it didnt work out, now its time for plan B.

Yeah, I agree it's time for Plan B, the debate is over what Plan B should be.

My question was, I don't understand why it's so hard to come up with a compromise here.

There's no viable options that don't involve trading 3-4 of Nils, Krav, Chytil and a first for a 29 year old whose contract expires in a year?

 

[rangers1314]

What about Kulak out of MTL?

 

[McRanger92]

I personally dont think kravtsov or nils hold the incredible value that some here think. I dont want to get debating that. I wouldnt have an issue moving them for a player that helps tremendously for two playoff runs. I would dream of finding a way to gte garland added to the deal somehow. If needed in 2 years when miller is gone the rangers have time to acquire more assets and further develop their own players and REALLY work the ncaa free agent pool

This is exactly the way the team should be looking at things, the front office will probably be all over the USNTDP & NCAA over the next few years for this reason. Theyve had tons of success historically using this route to backfill traded assets.

Also, If JT Miller's name wasn't JT Miller and he ever played with the Rangers, there'd be a much different tune being sung around here in regards to the NYR's interest in him..

 

[mas0764]

This is exactly the way the team should be looking at things, the front office will probably be all over the USNTDP & NCAA over the next few years for this reason. Theyve had tons of success historically using this route to backfill traded assets.

Also, If JT Miller's name wasn't JT Miller and he ever played with the Rangers, there'd be a much different tune being sung around here in regards to the NYR's interest in him..

I'd be more interested if he was 25 years old.

 

[bleedblue94]

Miller.

Schneider looks like the kind of d that teams win with in the playoffs. He would be a guy I hold at almost all costs and he seems to be the heir that lets you move trouba and his salary in a couple years. I agree, you dont move him...

 

[bleedblue94]

I'd be more interested if he was 25 years old.

I would care more about 1 more year on his contract than I would if he is 25 or not.

 

[Fitzy]

Trouba is also a 1D type, just on the right side.

Tampa has McDonagh behind Hedman, we have Trouba behind Fox.

Question remains as to how long we can keep him.

 

[McRanger92]

Yeah, I agree it's time for Plan B, the debate is over what Plan B should be.

My question was, I don't understand why it's so hard to come up with a compromise here.

There's no viable options that don't involve trading 3-4 of Nils, Krav, Chytil and a first for a 29 year old whose contract expires in a year?

Miller is the best player in the league currently available for a trade and the Rangers are hemorrhaging forwards and ready to win. Trading a sunk cost prospect like Kravtsov and a good d prospect like Nils, who is lower on the pecking order than 5-6 other 20 something defenseman in his own organization, makes complete sense to me if you're getting a star player for 2 playoff runs

 

[noupf]

Be that as it may (Miller's change), it doesn't change the fact that this team has no playoff experience. I know people like to dismiss things like playoff experience and/or team chemistry (not you bobbop), but here's some food for thought.

The Rangers have missed the playoffs four years running. No team has won the Stanley Cup after missing the post-season that many times in a row (at least not in the last 30-ish years, which is how far back I checked). It hasn't even been close, actually. Aside from one team, nobody who hoisted Lord Stanley had missed the playoffs more than 1 season before the Cup run (and even that was rare). Since the 2005 return from the lockout, these are the Cup winners and their playoff experience leading up to the Cup runs:

Carolina: The only team on this list to miss the playoffs more than once before a Cup win. They missed twice, both times before the lockout. The year before that, they went to the SCF. This was an odd season, where half the league had career years due to the new rules being called tightly.

Anaheim: Made the playoffs in 2 of the previous 3 seasons (including a trip to the SCF)

Detroit: Hadn't missed the playoffs in 16 years

Pens: Made the playoffs in 2 of the 3 seasons before winning the Cup

Chicago: 1 of the last 4 (though that 1 was the season prior, when they went to the Conference Finals).

Bruins: Three in a row

Kings: Two in a row

Chicago: Four in a row

Kings: Four in a row

Chicago: six in a row

Pens: 9 times in a row

Pens: 10 times in a row

Caps: 9 of the last 10 before winning

BLUES: 6 of the last 7 before winning

TBL: 5 of the last 6

TBL: 6 of the last 7

Experience matters. This Rangers' team, while plucky, doesn't have it. So should they add a moderate piece in the hopes of winning a round or two? Sure. Should they go all in after the biggest rental fish, in the hopes that they will be the first team in at least ~30 years to win a Cup after four years out of the playoffs? Not if Drury has two brain cells to rub together. Get this group some experience and either hold onto those assets for when the team IS ready, or use them to address long-term issues. 15 months of JT Miller doesn't address any long-term issues.

Damn you and your facts.

All joking aside, I 've been saying this for weeks now, this Ranger team in good, not great. Young and still wet behind the ears in so many areas. Grab a piece or two on the cheap if you think it can help the team this year or next. Maybe we can get a solid piece with some term to help for 2-3 years, who knows................but do not sell the entire farm to try to go for it right now. Its not gonna happen.

 

[mas0764]

Miller is the best player in the league currently available for a trade and the Rangers are hemorrhaging forwards and ready to win. Trading a sunk cost prospect like Kravtsov and a good d prospect like Nils, who is lower on the pecking order than 5-6 other 20 something defenseman in his own organization, makes complete sense to me if you're getting a star player for 2 playoff runs

Yeah, I think you are missing what I'm asking (or don't care).

I don't agree at all.

I'm surprised there's no alternative that seems apparent.

 

[Anthony5967]

I'd be more interested if he was 25 years old.

Yea, well then you’d be parting with a lot more than 3/4 of the people here would want to. Nils?! No way! Kravtsov?! No! “We must make room for Krav!”-Bern

 

[McRanger92]

I'd be more interested if he was 25 years old.

He wouldnt be getting traded if he was 25. Notice how the Canucks arent looking to move their 23 and 26 year old 2 way centers in Horvat & Pettersson. JT doesnt fit the Canucks timeline, but he certainly fits ours

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Schneider looks like the kind of d that teams win with in the playoffs. He would be a guy I hold at almost all costs and he seems to be the heir that lets you move trouba and his salary in a couple years. I agree, you dont move him...

My thoughts exactly. I am not a K'Andre hater in the least but if I have to choose I'm going with the the big, physical, nasty guy who is sound defensively. That's the guy that helps you win a 7 game series.

 

[mas0764]

Trouba is also a 1D type, just on the right side.

Tampa has McDonagh behind Hedman, we have Trouba behind Fox.

Question remains as to how long we can keep him.

Trouba being our McDonagh is not really born out by the stats.

McDonagh's last 3 years plus this year of GSVA:

18-19: 2.6
19-20: 0.8
20-21: 0.6
21-22: 1.5

Trouba's

18-19: 1.5
19-20: -0.2
20-21: 0.6
21-22: 1.0

Trouba's a little behind.

The numbers also tend to show that Sergechev has been better than McDonagh, who is more like their third best defenseman.

Granted Tampa is kind of an all-time team, but I would not hitch my wagon to Trouba being our second best defenseman and expect to win a Cup. Miller has to pass him.

 

[mas0764]

He wouldnt be getting traded if he was 25. Notice how the Canucks arent looking to move their 23 and 26 year old 2 way centers in Horvat & Pettersson. JT doesnt fit the Canucks timeline, but he certainly fits ours

He doesn't fit our timeline at all since we aren't gonna win the Cup in the next 2 years.

 

[Lgrsean]

(1) We'll lose the locker room for not going all in. (2) Our top players will get too old to compete by time a younger core is ready. (3) Our assets will all lose all their value. (4) We can't find good, young players anyway, so why try?

There’s no reason to believe that Bread, Kreider, Mika, Trouba, Igor or Fox will be able to produce at a significantly higher level than they are now due to age or the already elite level they are producing at. By the time a 4 year plan plays out, Kreider and Trouba will have to be traded for cap room, Bread and Mika will likely be a step slower, and Igor, kakko, Laf, k. Miller, Lindgren, even Schneider will be making a lot more than they are now. We don’t even have a 2c in most of these 4yr plans better than Chytil next year, and I haven’t mentioned strome’s loss of production next season. Whatever young center with term that you trade for will be more about potential than current ability, and it’s more likely than not that that group in 4 years isn’t as talented as today’s roster + JT Miller with salary retained.

It’s fine that you don’t want to trade for JTM, but teams with less talent than 3 PPG top 20 scorers, the leading goal scorer in the NHL, a 23 year old who won the Norris last year, a vezina favorite, and recent 1 & 2 OA picks have won a cup before and we’d have 2 cracks at it.

 

[Anthony5967]

By far, the best stat of the 2022. Howden sucks!

 

[McRanger92]

Damn you and your facts.

All joking aside, I 've been saying this for weeks now, this Ranger team in good, not great. Young and still wet behind the ears in so many areas. Grab a piece or two on the cheap if you think it can help the team this year or next. Maybe we can get a solid piece with some term to help for 2-3 years, who knows................but do not sell the entire farm to try to go for it right now. Its not gonna happen.

Are dealing Nils & Kravtsov really "selling the farm" though? They dont have long term spots here, either by choice or because other players are blocking them.

Also, lack of playoff experience is so overblown considering the Rangers best players have all played in plenty of playoff games. And are we really worried about Fox & Igor in the playoffs? These guys are all-world talents, I feel confident saying they will be just fine.

 

[McRanger92]

He doesn't fit our timeline at all since we aren't gonna win the Cup in the next 2 years.

But we will in 3-4 years when our stars are approaching their mid-30s and we have no clue what Laf & Kakko will turn into? Not sure about that logic

 

[NYR Viper]

Re-signing Strome allows the team to move forward with all of it's high end pieces while remaining a very good, growing team. It keeps the ammunition available for when the right player becomes available. The thing people don't like is the uncertainty of not knowing the name specifically right now. Look at the history of the last 10 years, there are good youngish centers that are traded. You need to make sure you have the ammunition to make those types of deals.

Strome @ 7 years for $5.3m per season

Danault
$5.5m per year @ 6 years, NMC in years 1-3, NTC in years 4-6

RNH
8 years @ $5.125m, NMC throughout

All numbers are given as averages of the previous 2 seasons before hitting UFA


[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD][/TD]
[TD]Age when they hit UFA[/TD][TD]Games played [/TD][TD]g/60[/TD][TD]a/60[/TD][TD]p/60[/TD][TD]FO%[/TD][TD]CF% rel even strength [/TD][TD]AVG TOI[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Ryan Strome[/TD][TD]28 [/TD]
[TD] 49.5[/TD][TD]0.75[/TD][TD]1.55[/TD][TD]2.1[/TD][TD]44.45%[/TD][TD]5.0[/TD][TD]~18:19[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]RNH[/TD][TD]27[/TD][TD]58.5[/TD][TD]0.75[/TD][TD]0.9[/TD][TD]1.75[/TD][TD]48.15%[/TD][TD]2.4[/TD][TD]~20:35[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Phillip Danault[/TD][TD]28[/TD][TD] 62[/TD][TD]0.55[/TD][TD]1.6[/TD][TD]2.15[/TD][TD]53.5%[/TD][TD]5.4[/TD][TD]~17:51[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]