Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVII - 5 weeks until TDL

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Both can be true.

But we do need centers. Cup winners pretty much all have either two elite centers or great center depth. We have Zibanejad and nothing else. And Zibanejad has serious concussion, injury, and inconsistency concerns.

By not addressing the situation already, and if we elect to eschew trading Nils/Krav for a long term center, we are going to be gambling that we can draft a Brayden Point or two, later in the coming couple drafts, which is simply horrible odds.

JT Miller is an elite center by pretty much any metric. I want to re-sign Strome, but if Drury's plan is to maintain flexibility going forward, the best move imo is to trade some assets for JT this year -> go into the playoffs with him & Strome-> let Strome walk with Miller as his replacement at 2C n 2023 -> re-evaluate our needs and cap situation when Miller's contract is up after 2023.

It would make more practical sense with our contract situation given that Kakko/Lafreniere/Miller all need new ones over the next 1-2 years. I know you want this pie in the sky 24 year old, cost controlled top 6 C, but those dont get traded unless its for elite talent, not Nils/Krav/1st Rd pick.
 
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Honestly I wouldnt break the build right now to reacquire Miller. The rental market is too expensive. Patience.

You wanna make a few low key moves to add a depth forward and vet D-man, fine. Try to retain the 1st rounder. Still needed for the pick or to trade up in the draft.

Besides, this team still has another decent forward in Blais coming back next year. And hes still only 25.

The Cap outlook with or without a trade for a big contract is something that has to be considered as well.

What I expect to happen is something different however. Dolan and Slats are getting long in the tooth...
 
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Waiting in line and bored.

You're the GM and you had TWO offers for the young center prospect that you covet.
1- You lose KA Miller
2- You lose BOTH Brendan Schneider and Brennan Othmann.
That's what the opposing GM wants. EITHER or. Nothing else.

Let's say this center prospect/young player is in agreement to be fair for both teams going forward.
The other team is fine with either of the two packages coming back.

You can say "neither" and that's fine, but boring and makes my post boring too.

This move for time frame sake is this summer.

Not a big deal post and have ZERO desire to debate it. I just would like to see the posters names to this ballsy choice.
 
JT Miller is an elite center by pretty much any metric. I want to re-sign Strome, but if Drury's plan is to maintain flexibility going forward, the best move imo is to trade some assets for JT this year -> go into the playoffs with him & Strome-> let Strome walk with Miller as his replacement at 2C n 2023 -> re-evaluate our needs and cap situation when Miller's contract is up after 2023.

I don't see what new information is going to crop up between now and then that would give you more flexibility.

You are buying 12 extra months of 2C from a guy you would be foolish to extend at the cost of your ability to go get a better, younger target. Signing another 30 year old to a long term contract where you are locked in is classic Dark Ages Rangers. This rebuild was supposed to be about getting better, younger, more flexible, and developing a decade long contender. If nothing else, swap futures for futures so you re-set your clock on their declining value (which I don't even really buy to begin with, as far as Lundkvist at least).

I'd rather have Strome with a movable contract and assets to spend, than Miller with a contract decision in 12 months and no assets. You have the same cap space either way. Maybe less with the latter option because Miller is going to command more than Strome, probably.

Trading out Nils, Krav, and a first leaves you with no ammo to go get a center later. Because you need Othmann, Jones, and Robertson to fill your future holes. And those are your last pieces of any substance.

It would make more practical sense with our contract situation given that Kakko/Lafreniere/Miller all need new ones over the next 1-2 years. I know you want this pie in the sky 24 year old, cost controlled top 6 C, but those dont get traded unless its for elite talent, not Nils/Krav/1st Rd pick.

I am fine with many options, but renting a 29 year old isn't one of them. The problem here is that I keep getting told the only viable option is to rent at expensive asset cost at the deadline or terrible things will happen.

(1) We'll lose the locker room for not going all in. (2) Our top players will get too old to compete by time a younger core is ready. (3) Our assets will all lose all their value. (4) We can't find good, young players anyway, so why try?

I don't buy any of those arguments. I completely reject that it's the only viable option. (1) I don't think the locker room is lost if you stand pat or just add bottom sixers. (2) I don't think our core ages out by time Kakko and Laf are ready - Zibanejad just got 8 years so clearly they believe in him, Fox and Shesterkin are going nowhere, Panarin will be a top line player for forever as well. Don't really care if Kreider and Trouba decline that much, they are replaceable from within with guys like Othmann and Schneider. (3) I think some on this board are actually way lower on a player like Nils than the rest of the league, and I think there are two posters in particular who just don't like him and are pushing the narrative that we have to move him before he's exposed. (4) That's nonsense because somehow other teams who win Cups have all managed to do it.

Setting aside what the Rangers WILL do (because I have very little faith in them doing the right thing, so by all accounts they very well may trade a ridiculous ransom for JT Miller), but as to what they SHOULD do, I feel like it shouldn't be this hard to come to an agreement on a path that both allows them to compete this year and also preserves their top assets and allows them to go hunting for a young center or two.

We (tentatively) agree that between Nils, Krav and a first you have the backbone for a tremendous package of value. If it was me I wouldn't trade those guys at all, I'd be trading Kreider and Trouba and doubling down on the future.

People keep asking me "Well then who should we go after?"

Why doesn't someone else suggest an option that's not an aging player with little or no term? Am I the only one capable of coming up with compromise options?
 
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Kakko & Laf only suck because they’re on the Rangers, if they were on a shitty team like the Canucks they’d be stars!

But Miller will certainly produce just as much on the Rangers and also won’t take ice time from the aforementioned young players!
 
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Kakko & Laf only suck because they’re on the Rangers, if they were on a shitty team like the Canucks they’d be stars!

But Miller will certainly produce just as much on the Rangers and also won’t take ice time from the aforementioned young players!
Oh, wait Miller wouldnt be taking ice time away from Dryden Hunt?

Like cmon guy.
 
Waiting in line and bored.

You're the GM and you had TWO offers for the young center prospect that you covet.
1- You lose KA Miller
2- You lose BOTH Brendan Schneider and Brennan Othmann.
That's what the opposing GM wants. EITHER or. Nothing else.

Let's say this center prospect/young player is in agreement to be fair for both teams going forward.
The other team is fine with either of the two packages coming back.

You can say "neither" and that's fine, but boring and makes my post boring too.

This move for time frame sake is this summer.

Not a big deal post and have ZERO desire to debate it. I just would like to see the posters names to this ballsy choice.

Keep Schneider and Othmann, move KAM for the center.

I like Miller and he's a lottery ticket to having a second superstar defenseman, but I'm not so convinced he's gonna reach that plateau. Yes he has upside, but the chance he gets there is starting to look smaller and instead it seems like he's going to be simply a good top 4 or maybe good top pair defender, without being a star.

Which in that case Schneider and Nils both have similar upside.

In which case since the team really needs forwards, I'm not moving top 6 potential winger Othmann.
 
I don't see what new information is going to crop up between now and then that would give you more flexibility.

You are buying 12 extra months of 2C from a guy you would be foolish to extend at the cost of your ability to go get a better, younger target. Signing another 30 year old to a long term contract where you are locked in is classic Dark Ages Rangers. This rebuild was supposed to be about getting better, younger, more flexible, and developing a decade long contender. If nothing else, swap futures for futures so you re-set your clock on their declining value (which I don't even really buy to begin with, as far as Lundkvist at least).

I'd rather have Strome with a movable contract and assets to spend, than Miller with a contract decision in 12 months and no assets. You have the same cap space either way. Maybe less with the latter option because Miller is going to command more than Strome, probably.

Trading out Nils, Krav, and a first leaves you with no ammo to go get a center later. Because you need Othmann, Jones, and Robertson to fill your future holes. And those are your last pieces of any substance.



I am fine with many options, but renting a 29 year old isn't one of them. The problem here is that I keep getting told the only viable option is to rent at expensive asset cost at the deadline or terrible things will happen.

(1) We'll lose the locker room for not going all in. (2) Our top players will get too old to compete by time a younger core is ready. (3) Our assets will all lose all their value. (4) We can't find good, young players anyway, so why try?

I don't buy any of those arguments. I completely reject that it's the only viable option. (1) I don't think the locker room is lost if you stand pat or just add bottom sixers. (2) I don't think our core ages out by time Kakko and Laf are ready - Zibanejad just got 8 years so clearly they believe in him, Fox and Shesterkin are going nowhere, Panarin will be a top line player for forever as well. Don't really care if Kreider and Trouba decline that much, they are replaceable from within with guys like Othmann and Schneider. (3) I think some on this board are actually way lower on a player like Nils than the rest of the league, and I think there are two posters in particular who just don't like him and are pushing the narrative that we have to move him before he's exposed. (4) That's nonsense because somehow other teams who win Cups have all managed to do it.

Setting aside what the Rangers WILL do (because I have very little faith in them doing the right thing, so by all accounts they very well may trade a ridiculous ransom for JT Miller), but as to what they SHOULD do, I feel like it shouldn't be this hard to come to an agreement on a path that both allows them to compete this year and also preserves their top assets and allows them to go hunting for a young center or two.

We (tentatively) agree that between Nils, Krav and a first you have the backbone for a tremendous package of value. If it was me I wouldn't trade those guys at all, I'd be trading Kreider and Trouba and doubling down on the future.

People keep asking me "Well then who should we go after?"

Why doesn't someone else suggest an option that's not an aging player with little or no term? Am I the only one capable of coming up with compromise options?

I agree with your concept but all I see is concept. No concrete plan. Who are you targeting?
 
Keep Schneider and Othmann, move KAM for the center.

I like Miller and he's a lottery ticket to having a second superstar defenseman, but I'm not so convinced he's gonna reach that plateau. Yes he has upside, but the chance he gets there is starting to look smaller and instead it seems like he's going to be simply a good top 4 or maybe good top pair defender, without being a star.

Which in that case Schneider and Nils both have similar upside.

In which case since the team really needs forwards, I'm not moving top 6 potential winger Othmann.

Yeah but do the Rangers need KAM to be a star? You would have to pay him like one. If he tops out as a top 4 defender who can play top 2 minutes (and he already has at the age of 22), it would be great to retain that flexibility on the back end.

KAM doesnt need to up his offensive production, though it will probably come along more than we expect it to. What we need from him is more physicality and that isnt something that necessarily inflates contracts.

I would be hesitant to move him, not because im afraid of what he might become, but what he already has proven at such a young age. Thats what this rebuild has been all about - and they traded up to get him. I'd hate to abandoned that so quickly
 
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I don't see what new information is going to crop up between now and then that would give you more flexibility.

You are buying 12 extra months of 2C from a guy you would be foolish to extend at the cost of your ability to go get a better, younger target. Signing another 30 year old to a long term contract where you are locked in is classic Dark Ages Rangers. This rebuild was supposed to be about getting better, younger, more flexible, and developing a decade long contender. If nothing else, swap futures for futures so you re-set your clock on their declining value (which I don't even really buy to begin with, as far as Lundkvist at least).

I'd rather have Strome with a movable contract and assets to spend, than Miller with a contract decision in 12 months and no assets. You have the same cap space either way. Maybe less with the latter option because Miller is going to command more than Strome, probably.

Trading out Nils, Krav, and a first leaves you with no ammo to go get a center later. Because you need Othmann, Jones, and Robertson to fill your future holes. And those are your last pieces of any substance.



I am fine with many options, but renting a 29 year old isn't one of them. The problem here is that I keep getting told the only viable option is to rent at expensive asset cost at the deadline or terrible things will happen.

(1) We'll lose the locker room for not going all in. (2) Our top players will get too old to compete by time a younger core is ready. (3) Our assets will all lose all their value. (4) We can't find good, young players anyway, so why try?

I don't buy any of those arguments. I completely reject that it's the only viable option. (1) I don't think the locker room is lost if you stand pat or just add bottom sixers. (2) I don't think our core ages out by time Kakko and Laf are ready - Zibanejad just got 8 years so clearly they believe in him, Fox and Shesterkin are going nowhere, Panarin will be a top line player for forever as well. Don't really care if Kreider and Trouba decline that much, they are replaceable from within with guys like Othmann and Schneider. (3) I think some on this board are actually way lower on a player like Nils than the rest of the league, and I think there are two posters in particular who just don't like him and are pushing the narrative that we have to move him before he's exposed. (4) That's nonsense because somehow other teams who win Cups have all managed to do it.

Setting aside what the Rangers WILL do (because I have very little faith in them doing the right thing, so by all accounts they very well may trade a ridiculous ransom for JT Miller), but as to what they SHOULD do, I feel like it shouldn't be this hard to come to an agreement on a path that both allows them to compete this year and also preserves their top assets and allows them to go hunting for a young center or two.

We (tentatively) agree that between Nils, Krav and a first you have the backbone for a tremendous package of value. If it was me I wouldn't trade those guys at all, I'd be trading Kreider and Trouba and doubling down on the future.

People keep asking me "Well then who should we go after?"

Why doesn't someone else suggest an option that's not an aging player with little or no term? Am I the only one capable of coming up with compromise options?

The Rangers Should absolutely trade for Roope Hintz or Elias Pettersson type players. The problem that you conveniently ignore is that other teams have to actually be willing to deal and agree to a price. Eichel was this guy and it didnt work out, now its time for plan B.

Also saying the Rangers should double down on the future and deal 2 of their best players and alternate captains while they are a guaranteed playoff team is crazy
 
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The real issue is that in truth we have no where near enough forwards, skilled or unskilled, in our pipeline, and we need to be acquiring more not less.

The rebuild was never finished at forward.
Yea, I mean Blais being out for the year left a crater sized hole in the bottom-six. His game was perfect for Gallant and this team. This team has a ton of forwards still in the system that’ll be knocking on the door soon enough: Othmann, Berard, Barron, Pajuniemi, Cuylle, etc. The rebuild isn’t even technically over. They’re just ahead of schedule, big time. Doing all this with guys still trying to develop.
 
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The Rangers Should absolutely trade for Roope Hintz or Elias Pettersson type players. The problem that you conveniently ignore is that other teams have to actually be willing to deal and agree to a price. Eichel was this guy and it didnt work out, now its time for plan B.

Also saying the Rangers should double down on the future and deal 2 of their best players and alternate captains while they are a guaranteed playoff team is crazy
I would love to get either guy. Isn’t happening.
 
If I’m VAN, I’m asking for Lafreniere and Schneider in this deal. And yeah, Miller is worth it cause it gives NYR a PROVEN monster performer for 2 playoff runs. All’s he does is score and set up other guys who score.
Look what CGY just gave up for Toffoli.

King-sized testicles rollin over to NYR board to post this instead of just doing it on the trade board
 
JT Miller is an elite center by pretty much any metric. I want to re-sign Strome, but if Drury's plan is to maintain flexibility going forward, the best move imo is to trade some assets for JT this year -> go into the playoffs with him & Strome-> let Strome walk with Miller as his replacement at 2C n 2023 -> re-evaluate our needs and cap situation when Miller's contract is up after 2023.

It would make more practical sense with our contract situation given that Kakko/Lafreniere/Miller all need new ones over the next 1-2 years. I know you want this pie in the sky 24 year old, cost controlled top 6 C, but those dont get traded unless its for elite talent, not Nils/Krav/1st Rd pick.
this plan also buys you some time to see what happens with the nhl finances before locking into something bigger, and it may put more pressure on strome to decide how much he wants to be here and if he will take a discount to stay, and how much. the only way that becomes possible is if you get miller at 50
 
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I agree with your concept but all I see is concept. No concrete plan. Who are you targeting?

As I said in another thread, it's hard to come up with a name because I don't have access to the phone numbers of the other 31 GMs, I don't know who is available or who would be open to overtures.

If pressured to come up with a name I would lock in on the Kings because they have a surplus of centers and they may lack wingers or defensemen. Turcotte is intriguing, if my scouts tell me he's a center. Or maybe Vilardi.

I think they had more of an opportunity in the past to fill this void and they passed on it. We don't need to re-hash those debates, my point is that it's getting harder, which leads to my follow up point, it's only going to get harder and harder from here on out, so we can't wait anymore, we can't trade our best prospects for a rental and then think we'll deal with it in 2023, it will be impossible.

After the Kings, I'd probably start combing through the rosters and systems of either competing teams who might have centers or teams that are desperate and might have centers. A team like the Redwings isn't going to give you the time of day cause they aren't trying to win and their rebuild is on course. A team like Edmonton might be willing to move you Holloway for something, cause they have cap issues, backup goaltender needs, and can be taken advantage of. Chicago is getting a new GM and might be entering a retooling. Can you do a prospect swap there? Dach for Krav and Nils? What about Marco Rossi in Minnesota? They have cap issues. Can you retain something this year and send them a defensive prospect and Kravtsov for Rossi?

What I don't believe is that there is no team out there willing to make such a move. It's about finding the team that is willing and figuring out the price.
 
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this plan also buys you some time to see what happens with the nhl finances before locking into something bigger, and it may put more pressure on strome to decide how much he wants to be here and if he will take a discount to stay, and how much. the only way that becomes possible is if you get miller at 50

I don't see how they can do anything bigger if they deplete their assets for making a bigger move. If we trade Nils/Krav/1st for Miller we aren't gonna be able to turn around a deal Chytil/Jones/Othmann for a center. We'd have nothing left.
 
If I’m VAN, I’m asking for Lafreniere and Schneider in this deal. And yeah, Miller is worth it cause it gives NYR a PROVEN monster performer for 2 playoff runs. All’s he does is score and set up other guys who score.
Look what CGY just gave up for Toffoli.
Rangers counter with laf for petterson, Miller, and hughes
 
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Waiting in line and bored.

You're the GM and you had TWO offers for the young center prospect that you covet.
1- You lose KA Miller
2- You lose BOTH Brendan Schneider and Brennan Othmann.
That's what the opposing GM wants. EITHER or. Nothing else.

Let's say this center prospect/young player is in agreement to be fair for both teams going forward.
The other team is fine with either of the two packages coming back.

You can say "neither" and that's fine, but boring and makes my post boring too.

This move for time frame sake is this summer.

Not a big deal post and have ZERO desire to debate it. I just would like to see the posters names to this ballsy choice.
Miller.
 
You just don't trade KAM...period. What his future will be is uncertain. He may settle in as a 2nd pair D, he may emerge as a legit first pair D. We don't know and frankly, no trade is tempting enough so as to lose the possibility of finding out.

You don't trade Schneider either. Not with his potential and the progress he has made. You don't trade Othmann either.

You don't trade your 1st round pick, even if its a pick likely to be towards the bottom of the first round. 1st round picks are the lifeblood of an organization, you need that constant pipeline of young players, especially in a cap world. If we were one player, one particular player away, I might be tempted to go for that final piece. But we are not there yet.

Who do you trade? Nils and Krav, both former 1st round picks. Nils is redundant given our D, but even then, I always operate under the assumption that you never, never, have enough D. But given our situation, he can be traded. Given how badly we mucked up the situation with Krav and that fences do not appear mendable, he is expendable.

And, that is it. Otherwise stay the course. Next year might be the year to make big moves at the TDL. I don't even think trades at the off summer draft is the way to go: there is always talk about trades happening then, but it seems to me that the possibility of 1st rounders moving, and the value put on them by GMs, suppresses the market.

So, my deal is, for whomever the Rangers are after, Nils, Krav, and perhaps a 2nd rounder. Two, young former 1st rounders for a piece your team needs or wants to move? I might be looking at this from a NYR point of view, but that seems reasonable. Teams want more? Walk away. I'm happy to see what the playoffs show about this team. The playoffs will reveal much about where we are and where we need to go.

I happen to think JTM would be a fine piece in so many ways. But I do not want to go overboard. No trading KAM, Othmann, Schneider, Laf, KK, or even Chytil, who I still want to see get a real chance to prove himself.
 
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