Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVI - It’s Miller Time…K-A

[mas0764]

Comparing apples to bowling balls. Sens couldn’t afford stone.
EP is a top 5 pick and cornerstone of their future. Plus brainstorm was traded 1 year after his draft while his stock was at its highest..

And? The next time one of those situations comes up we will be well equipped to strike. Or trade up in a draft.

It happens. I'm not wasting my prime assets on rentals. Period. I'll let them die on the vine first. Because the chances that you can never get good long term value out of them are actually tiny, because despite your assertions here, they do constitute similar value to these other examples.

But in the mean time of waiting on LaF/Kakko
3-4 years of Zibby/panarin/kreider are all older, and probably at least a little worse.
Shesty due for a massive raise along with a lot of others...

1) Shoulda signed Shesterkin to a longer deal like many said, then. Another Drury whiff.

2) Yeah, Kreider will be declining soon. All the more reason to chase more youth.

3) Zibanejad is here till eternity, and you can't move him. All the more reason to chase a young 2C who will be able to take over for him and we have to hope that he remains good enough to be a 2C and the cap goes up enough that an $8.5m 2nd line center is still affordable.

4) Panarin I expect to be a first liner till he's 40. His game should age very well.

You realize the most GMs plan in the future is about 3 years ahead....
If you don’t show a massive improvement in that window, your likely getting shit-canned.
I don’t think Any GM has the clout to withstand a 5-6 year rebuild/waiting period.
Yzerman might be the only one, he’s like Jesus in DET

The team I proposed is a playoff team for a decade. No one is getting fired.

 

[tlk]

Buch is producing on a 3rd line in St. Louis he found chemistry with. Will that go on all year? And into the playoffs?

Bit rich seeing how we can't find it in our two top lines [without him].

 

[Tob]

So nice to have @EdJovanovski chime in every few pages inbetween me trying to figure out who's being a moron in these discussions and who's not, then the original moron shows up to recalibrate my senses.

 

[bleedblue94]

Are they still cap compliant come playoff time with Stone back?

Like Tampa was?

Posters make this more of an issue than teams do. The bottom line is that if you want a player from Vegas they aren't giving them away as some here continue to suggest they will have to...

 

[rangersfansince08]

1) Shoulda signed Shesterkin to a longer deal like many said, then. Another Drury whiff.

Right. Because Shesterkin and his agent have brains Drury f***ed up.

 

[jay from jersey]

While I'm not sure you are correct re: the price on EP, I'm just saying generally.

If Mark Stone went for Erik Brannstrom, and Jack Eichel went for Krebs, Tuch, and a first, then we should be able to find a 22-24 future solid 1C (not saying a Crosby or McDavid) for Nils, Krav, and a first.

If Kakko and Laf takes 4 years, then we're screwed anyway. Zibanejad/Kreider/Panarin aren't winning a Cup without those two taking off, sorry to break the news. You can add 5 JT Millers.

again, your all over the place.... your saying we have mostly what it takes to be a long term contender in house, sans a long term 2C, but if kakko/LaF take 3-4 years to develop or don’t reach that status, it over, don’t even bother trying to win anything....
You have no clue what the future holds. We could have an absolute stud of a 3-4-5rd pick burst on the scene out of no where....
Shesty/Lundqvist. Are examples...
Berard/Othmann could be way more then expected..... you have no clue, neither do I.
What I do know is you keep trying to win.
Keep fostering a winning culture, and hopefully insert the guys in when others need to be filtered out.
If you just want a perpetual long term all kid rebuild, Buffalo isn’t the best shinning example.
And they drafted Dahlin and Eichel plus numerous others and still sucked.
I’m not advocating emptying the cupboard for Miller, but I’m not going to get Bent outta shape if they trade a late 1st And maybe kravtsov and a 2nd. For Copp +Lehkonen/Jarnkrok To try and catch some magic in this years playoffs...

 

[bleedblue94]

Seems like every few weeks we get our hopes up that Reilly Smith will shake loose and then another Vegas player goes on LTIR. Such a tease

The only people's teasing are the posters that keep suggesting Vegas will have to give players away bc of the cap. If you want someone from Vegas you'll have to pay for them...

 

[bobbop]

Are they still cap compliant come playoff time with Stone back?

There is no cap in the playoffs.

 

[Tob]

What we are offering for Miller must read like delusion to Canucks fans but then they're doing the same thing in the opposite direction. I hope we are proven right but I also just don't want to trade for Miller unless the price is fair but he has too many suitors. At $2.88M cap or whatever for 2 years, you'd have to think FLA or COL is the team that is willing to go broke when their contention window is wide open.

I don't see how we beat what they're offering.

 

[bleedblue94]

Right. Because Shesterkin and his agent have brains Drury f***ed up.

This is such a visionous history, I really hope you two go back and look at the first few pages of that signing thread. The overwhelming number of posters were killing the signing as an overpay. I was one of the few people in their defending it stating that Igor had all the leverage in the world did you just go back to Russia if you wanted to and that the rangers had no actual alternative to be their starting goalie at the time.

Furthermore just because you wanted him to sign for a longer term doesn't mean that he was ever going to, he is set up perfectly timeline wise to get one more huge payday contract and he's earning it. Players and agents are going to do what's best for them, not what's best for the rangers cap

 

[mas0764]

again, your all over the place.... your saying we have mostly what it takes to be a long term contender in house, sans a long term 2C, but if kakko/LaF take 3-4 years to develop or don’t reach that status, it over, don’t even bother trying to win anything....

As we stand here today, Kakko and Laf are not elite players. The hope is that they become that next year or the year after. The hope is within those 2 years, Othmann is here. The hope is within 2 years, Chytil has finally taken the steps to be a 40-50 point caliber winger. The hope would be, you can trade Nils and Krav and a first for a center who is a clear cut upgrade to Strome and who can eventually be a 1C in a tandem role with Mika. The hope is that in 2 years, Jones and Robertson are up here permanently and we have no more black holes that hold back our defense. The hope is that in 2 years, Miller is a top pair defender.

So as we stand here today, none of that has happened, and as a result, our 5v5 sucks and our chances to beat an experienced or more talented team (Tampa, Washington, Carolina, Florida, Colorado) across MULTIPLE 7-game series' is practically nil. We can upset one of those team; we aren't beating 3 of them.

So yes, the idea would be, get two more centers now who will be able to play in 2 seasons, when everything else is ready.

That's why buying for "now," is so moronic. You want to spend a second on Reilly Smith? Fine. It's not gonna change anything, but it's not a serious asset. Let the kids learn from the run.

But our prime players aren't ready yet. And when they are, if you don't have two more centers in here, you are probably screwed because your center depth sucks.

Are some pieces going to have declined in 2 years? Yeah. It's why they should have traded Kreider when they had the chance.

But aside from that, Zibanejad is going to be here and they are betting on him being top-6 until he's 38. And Panarin isn't going to decline dramatically.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

What we are offering for Miller must read like delusion to Canucks fans but then they're doing the same thing in the opposite direction. I hope we are proven right but I also just don't want to trade for Miller unless the price is fair but he has too many suitors. At $2.88M cap or whatever for 2 years, you'd have to think FLA or COL is the team that is willing to go broke when their contention window is wide open.

I don't see how we beat what they're offering.

Now you have me fantasizing about:

To Col: JT Miller

To Van: Col 1st, Nils Ludqvist, Kravtsov

To NYR: Alex Newhook

 

[mas0764]

Now you have me fantasizing about:

To Col: JT Miller

To Van: Col 1st, Nils Ludqvist, 3rd piece from Col

To NYR: Alex Newhook

You, sir, should win the Nobel Peace Prize for this post.

 

[bleedblue94]

So nice to have @EdJovanovski chime in every few pages inbetween me trying to figure out who's being a moron in these discussions and who's not, then the original moron shows up to recalibrate my senses.

It's easy for someone to claim they were right down the road when they are all over the place. Certain posters definitely have that attribute to their views and posts.

 

[Tob]

Now you have me fantasizing about:

To Col: JT Miller

To Van: Col 1st, Nils Ludqvist, Kravtsov

To NYR: Alex Newhook

Avs fans wouldn't do that deal and Canucks fans laughed at our VK, Nils, NYR 1st deal let alone the COL 1st.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Avs fans wouldn't do that deal and Canucks fans laughed at our VK, Nils, NYR 1st deal let alone the COL 1st.

Hence the word "fantasizing"

 

[bleedblue94]

I would absolutely love to add to this roster to supplement the top talent we have while they are/are capable of playing at their highest levels, but the biggest tdl acquisitions the rangers could make would be for laf and kakko to start playing like top 6 players.

How they start coming out of this break is going to have a big affect on what Drury does...

 

[jay from jersey]

Tantalizing in that on a contending Rangers team he's glued to the bottom 6 behind Laf, Kako, Panarin, and Kreider?

Blais was never a must-have to be a winning team. He was always about satisfying their stupid Tom Wilson/getting shut out by the Islanders overreaction.

God, I said back then, as soon as they lost those games, "Do not let this become a thing. Do not try to go emulate the Islanders. They are a group of crusty old senior citizens who have old man strength, of course they are going to beat up on our kids. Just wait them out and they won't be a threat. Keep building a skill team, cause skill wins. Look at the Hurricanes, look at the Avalanche."

So of course they ran right out to try to get as tough and untalented as possible as quick as possible. And sure enough not 12 months later the Islanders are completely benign.

Blais certainly helped fill the physicality mandate, but he was more about filling the void left by fast.
A Swiss Army knife winger that can be inserted anywhere on lines 2-4.
Strome and Panarin had the most success with Fast on their Right, I think Blais was brought in for bottom 6 duty, but if 1 of the kids failed in that spot, he’s your insulation.
He’s not really a fighter or an average 4th line banger. He’s got hands.
I don’t think it was as much about Wilson as replacing fasts contribution in the line up while adding a more physical game as well.
Kinda kill 2 birds with 1 stone type of move.
Reaves and Tinordi were the Wilson adds...

 

[mas0764]

Now you have me fantasizing about:

To Col: JT Miller

To Van: Col 1st, Nils Ludqvist, 3rd piece from Col

To NYR: Alex Newhook

Goddamn, this is so excellent I'm going to quote it twice and adopt it.

Rangers get Newhook in this deal.

Then:

Georgiev and a second to Edmonton for Holloway and Koskinen.

Then:

Kravtsov, 1st, 2nd to Arizona for Chychrun.

Re-sign Strome to a deal that is movable at any time.

Next year:

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider
Panarin - Strome (eventually Newhook) - Kakko
Othmann - Goodrow (eventually Holloway) - Chytil
Blais - Barron - Reaves (eventually Berard)

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Chychrun - Schneider
(eventually Robertson and Jones replace Lindgren and Trouba)

Shesterkin
Koskinen

Someone get me a kleenex.

 

[mas0764]

Avs fans wouldn't do that deal and Canucks fans laughed at our VK, Nils, NYR 1st deal let alone the COL 1st.

Canucks fans are delusional and have no bearing on reality.

Can I sweeten that pot to get Colorado to agree?

 

[CLW]

I would absolutely love to add to this roster to supplement the top talent we have while they are/are capable of playing at their highest levels, but the biggest tdl acquisitions the rangers could make would be for laf and kakko to start playing like top 6 players.

How they start coming out of this break is going to have a big affect on what Drury does...

You mean play like shit 5v5 but put up points on the PP?

 

[haohmaru]

Goddamn, this is so excellent I'm going to quote it twice and adopt it.

Rangers get Newhook in this deal.

Then:

Georgiev and a second to Edmonton for Holloway and Koskinen.

Then:

Kravtsov, 1st, 2nd to Arizona for Chychrun.

Re-sign Strome to a deal that is movable at any time.

Next year:

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider
Panarin - Strome (eventually Newhook) - Kakko
Othmann - Goodrow (eventually Holloway) - Chytil
Blais - Barron - Reaves (eventually Berard)

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Chychrun - Schneider
(eventually Robertson and Jones replace Lindgren and Trouba)

Shesterkin
Koskinen

Someone get me a kleenex.

You're going to need it after you do the cap math.

 

[mas0764]

Blais certainly helped fill the physicality mandate, but he was more about filling the void left by fast.
A Swiss Army knife winger that can be inserted anywhere on lines 2-4.
Strome and Panarin had the most success with Fast on their Right, I think Blais was brought in for bottom 6 duty, but if 1 of the kids failed in that spot, he’s your insulation.
He’s not really a fighter or an average 4th line banger. He’s got hands.

Buch for insulation is as bad of an idea as Buch for a fourth liner.

But I agree Blais is ideal in that role in general (minus how terrible the trade was). He's got the toughness you do find in the bottom 6 but without being your typical worthless fighter or banger who can't play. He can actually skate and score a little, I agree.

He just does so at a level where he's only a real positive presence if he's doing so while stapled to your bottom 6. As a top liner, he's a negative. As a fourth liner, he's excellent. Don't tell me that's unrealistic. It's the teams with excellence at places where it's overkill that win Cups.

 

[mas0764]

You're going to need it after you do the cap math.

So actually, since Koskinen is a free agent after this season, scratch him out and make it Kincaid.

But yeah, the problem is Chychrun/Strome. I probably have to let Strome walk to afford Chychrun.

Can a team retain for 1 year? Can I get Arizona to eat some of that for the first year of the deal?

Otherwise.... I guess so long, Strome.

 

[jay from jersey]

Meh, I don't know about that. Blais isn't a Matt Martin type. He plays a physical game but he's never had more than 20 PIM's in an NHL season. I think the Rangers thought there was a bit of size and physicality there but I don't think it had much to do with Wilson. It was the best offer on the table. Buch had to be traded at some point, but the timing was wrong from both of our perspectives (you: too late me: too early).

I'd like to see the guy over 80ish games and acclimated to being a NYR before I pass judgment on how bad this trade was.

this... plus who we take/trade for with that 2nd