Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVI - It’s Miller Time…K-A

[Alluckks]

its all click bait. The guy wont be traded

Why even ask the question if you're gonna respond like such an idiot

 

[CLW]

Tantalizing in that on a contending Rangers team he's glued to the bottom 6 behind Laf, Kako, Panarin, and Kreider?

Blais was never a must-have to be a winning team. He was always about satisfying their stupid Tom Wilson/getting shut out by the Islanders overreaction.

God, I said back then, as soon as they lost those games, "Do not let this become a thing. Do not try to go emulate the Islanders. They are a group of crusty old senior citizens who have old man strength, of course they are going to beat up on our kids. Just wait them out and they won't be a threat. Keep building a skill team, cause skill wins. Look at the Hurricanes, look at the Avalanche."

So of course they ran right out to try to get as tough and untalented as possible as quick as possible.

Except Blais can imprint you on your forehead with his Stanley Cup ring.

 

[noupf]

Why even ask the question if you're gonna respond like such an idiot

I just want to fit in.

 

[Lgrsean]

Yes, it does. The market for Strome is at least what Miller currently is getting. Even at that, plus Miller at 50%, we do not have enough cap space to ice a full team if Strome gets 5.5m, which is probably on the low side in this market anyway.

It's not happening.

It's either Strome or Miller.

Unless you are moving Kreider or Trouba.

My point is that if the Rangers can't sign Strome and afford a forward for $2.6M, then they need to let Strome walk and sign someone like Copp for less. What do you realistically think Kakko is going to get on a bridge deal? He's averaging a point every 3 games for his career.

I expect the Rangers to not be idiots and trade their best remaining assets for 18 months of no upgrade. Blisteringly high expectations, I know.

The question was, "When do you expect the Rangers to have more talent than they would have with Miller for those 2 runs?" What exactly is your answer?

 

[kovazub94]

Hoglander would satisfy Drury's desire to acquire a similar young player/top prospect for Kravtsov. Vancouver wasn't mentioned in October when pajama boy went AWOL. The Canucks have a new president of hockey operations and GM now. Vitaly will like VAN. Alaska is near British Columbia. According to Ron Duguay's new girlfriend. you can see Russia from Alaska. Maybe Vitali can live in Russia and commute to VAN for games and practices.

You should know that Kravtsov hometown is Vladivostok. Go find it on the map.

 

[haohmaru]

Blais was never a must-have to be a winning team. He was always about satisfying their stupid Tom Wilson/getting shut out by the Islanders overreaction.

Meh, I don't know about that. Blais isn't a Matt Martin type. He plays a physical game but he's never had more than 20 PIM's in an NHL season. I think the Rangers thought there was a bit of size and physicality there but I don't think it had much to do with Wilson. It was the best offer on the table. Buch had to be traded at some point, but the timing was wrong from both of our perspectives (you: too late me: too early).

I'd like to see the guy over 80ish games and acclimated to being a NYR before I pass judgment on how bad this trade was.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'd imagine both units would have 1D only. I feel like putting K'Andre on PP2 was only because of injuries up front.

I just feel like Chytil doesn't have any identifiable power play skills, but maybe I'm projecting what I would do instead of what would actually happen.

You are right about his skillet, he's never really shown the ability to create on the PP.

 

[mas0764]

Blais has way better hands and is a bigger part of the future then you realize.

I'm not even sure we can afford to re-sign Blais this offseason. But now that we've overpaid to acquire him I hope he does stay here. Because he can push Hunt and Reaves off the roster and yes, Blais does bring way more to the bottom 6 than they do.

I’m sure his physical play/size was a huge plus, but he was traded to replace the gapping hole left by fasts departure.

Blais is a good third liner and a great fourth liner.

He doesn't belong in the top 6 moving forward for this team that wants to have Cup aspirations.

If this team was smart, this is what it would be aiming for with it's top 6 given what it currently has on hand -

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider
Panarin - Strome/eventual young 2C->1C - Kakko
Othmann - Goodrow/eventually young 3C->2C - Chytil
Bottom line some combination of Barron, Blais, Berard, etc.

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Robertson - Jones

Nils, Krav and 1sts traded for young centers who can grow with Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil and Othmann.

That's your winning team.

 

[bobbop]

While the Canucks have been better under Boudreau, there are still a stretch for the playoffs. Their cap situation, short and long term is a mess. The OEL contract will be an anchor for years to come. Rutherford has been very open about clearing cap space. They are not retaining. I like @RangerBoy suggestion of Chytil, Kravtsov and a second for Miller. Would fit both teams needs and budgets.

 

[mas0764]

My point is that if the Rangers can't sign Strome and afford a forward for $2.6M, then they need to let Strome walk and sign someone like Copp for less. What do you realistically think Kakko is going to get on a bridge deal? He's averaging a point every 3 games for his career.

I expect Kakko's bridge is going to be more about his potential than what he's earned. That's just how it is.

And I am fearful that another team sees we can't afford to give him $4m+ and swoops in with a 1-year $5m offer like Carolina did.

That's Armageddon, if that happens. You think the complaining about the Buch trade is bad? Wait until THAT happens.

The question was, "When do you expect the Rangers to have more talent than they would have with Miller for those 2 runs?" What exactly is your answer?

As soon as they trade from their surplus for a center or two with upside and let Kakko and Lafreniere develop.

 

[jay from jersey]

I'm not even sure we can afford to re-sign Blais this offseason. But now that we've overpaid to acquire him I hope he does stay here. Because he can push Hunt and Reaves off the roster and yes, Blais does bring way more to the bottom 6 than they do.



Blais is a good third liner and a great fourth liner.

He doesn't belong in the top 6 moving forward for this team that wants to have Cup aspirations.

If this team was smart, this is what it would be aiming for with it's top 6 given what it currently has on hand -

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider
Panarin - Strome/eventual young 2C->1C - Kakko
Othmann - Goodrow/eventually young 3C->2C - Chytil
Bottom line some combination of Barron, Blais, Berard, etc.

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Robertson - Jones

Nils, Krav and 1sts traded for young centers who can grow with Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil and Othmann.

That's your winning team.

you’re basically saying we have everything in house or on the farm from being a continuously long cup contender here right now.
Except for a 2C?

 

[Alluckks]

You wonder where the ignorance, arrogance, and delusion of Canucks fans come from in these talks

The lead mod there in their proposal thread posts that they are tired of hearing about the Rangers and suggests that they should target Boston because they can take a shot at getting McAvoy...

Jesus christ, it is like trickle down idiocy over there

 

[Alluckks]

While the Canucks have been better under Boudreau, there are still a stretch for the playoffs. Their cap situation, short and long term is a mess. The OEL contract will be an anchor for years to come. Rutherford has been very open about clearing cap space. They are not retaining. I like @RangerBoy suggestion of Chytil, Kravtsov and a second for Miller. Would fit both teams needs and budgets.

I'd bet Vancouver would at least push for a conditional 2nd that becomes a 1st based on some playoff success

 

[Thirty One]

I'd bet Vancouver would at least push for a conditional 2nd that becomes a 1st based on some playoff success

Fine, we're bound to have a conditional pick swing our way.

 

[mas0764]

you’re basically saying we have everything in house or on the farm from being a continuously long cup contender here right now.
Except for a 2C?

I would say once Lafreniere and Kakko become 60-70-80-90 point players, and once we have top-notch center depth down the middle, yes.

Like, say I can get Pettersson for Nils, Krav, and a first, and then I can get Holloway for (this is completely hypothetical) Georgiev and a second and take back Koskinen.

Bam.

Just let the team grow. Pettersson is the 2C. He eventually takes over as 1C when Mika declines. Holloway is a potential 2C someday as well, lower end probably, but he insulates you from NEEDING to overpay for someone who can do the job. And you are elite-wing driven otherwise with Panarin, Kreider, Kakko, Lafreniere, Othmann, and, hopefully, Chytil. That's a VERY nice young group of forwards.

You might need another top defender. Not sure there's enough high-end talent on defense if Miller doesn't become elite.

 

[jay from jersey]

1 - I don't think Miller is a good target if close to 50% salary isn't retained. If the Canucks trade him for futures, they don't intend on competing next year and I think they'd be willing to retain salary to get the best offer.

2 - No player guarantees a cup. I never said Miller does. I said they could compete for a cup for the next 2 playoffs with him if they can resign Strome or sign a UFA like Copp. And I have asked what would a more talented Rangers team look like than the one I'm suggesting and when would that team be on the ice?

People act like the Rangers are going to trade for a 22 year old cost controlled C that's ready to step into the top 6 as soon as he's here. I don't see that happening. Meanwhile, Vince is already saying Lundkvist's camp would be open to a trade because he's obviously blocked from making the NHL roster.

Don’t need Vince for that, I’ve been saying it since camp.....
Any novice hockey fan can tell nils was prob crushed when sent down.
Seeing how much better Schneider has played then him, plus Fox and Trouba contracts/clauses and the writing is on the wall.
He doesn’t want to be stuck in the AHL for another year, and sees a massive roadblock in any future opportunity on the rangers RD.
Of course he’d welcome a trade...

 

[Blais to Win]

How is strome your ideal #2 center? The guy takes bad penalties, makes bonehead plays, cant play defense, and cant win faceoffs. Great he can put up some points but what we need is a responsible two way player that can win faceoffs at the center position.

Maybe its just the perspective of NYR history. Strome could have been #1C on any prior rangers squad going back to Nylander. You don't remember the years when Stepan or Richards would end the season with just over 50 points?

 

[bl02]

So let me get this straight.

JT Miller is going to cost Nils Lundkvist (a 21 year old top 4 D prospect), Vitaly Kravtsov (a 21 year old top 6 RW prospect), and a first, but Ryan Strome is gonna bring back "less than what people believe"?

If Miller brings back that haul then Strome should bring back like, Broberg, Holloway and a first.

But what this particular forum does is shit on it's own prospects and overvalue other team's veterans. Then those same posters complain that "This is Hockey's FUTURE, everyone here overvalues prospects, lulz, but Ryan Strome isn't worth a fraction of JT Miller even though they are basically equal."

I never once said Miller was worth anywhere near that. I don’t want Miller and don’t want to trade Strome unless we get a nice haul which won’t happen

 

[mas0764]

I never once said Miller was worth anywhere near that. I don’t want Miller and don’t want to trade Strome unless we get a nice haul which won’t happen

Sorry - I wasn't actually trying to single you out, even though it did come across like that.

I was trying to generally demean the ridiculous idea that we should trade such a haul for Miller but that Strome can't be traded in the middle of a run and he won't bring back anything anyway. Like, contradiction much?

 

[jay from jersey]

I would say once Lafreniere and Kakko become 60-70-80-90 point players, and once we have top-notch center depth down the middle, yes.

Like, say I can get Pettersson for Nils, Krav, and a first, and then I can get Holloway for (this is completely hypothetical) Georgiev and a second and take back Koskinen.

Bam.

Just let the team grow. Pettersson is the 2C. He eventually takes over as 1C when Mika declines. Holloway is a potential 2C someday as well, lower end probably, but he insulates you from NEEDING to overpay for someone who can do the job. And you are elite-wing driven otherwise with Panarin, Kreider, Kakko, Lafreniere, Othmann, and, hopefully, Chytil. That's a VERY nice young group of forwards.

You might need another top defender. Not sure there's enough high-end talent on defense if Miller doesn't become elite.

No way they deal EP for that. It just won’t happen. They’d want an impact player/top 5 pick to move him..
He’s 1 of their cornerstone guys for better or worse. Like NYR with kakko/LaF
As far as waiting for LaF/kakko to become 80 pt players, that could take 4 years...
You still have to remain competitive in the interim, as well as surrounding those guys with players that have traits the compliment theirs and ones they don’t possess

 

[Lgrsean]

Then trade for one who isn't ready to step into the top 6 as soon as he's here, but someday.

Perfect. The Rangers have had a great run of young forwards pushing into the top 6. When do you think this center will reach our 2nd line? 3 years? Igor is making what? Are Kreider and Trouba traded? Lindgren and Miller resigned? Schneider and Jones on bridge deals? Bread and Mika producing at 33 and 31 like they are now? We should be contending for a cup at this point, so I assume Laf and Kakko already have or be ready for some big contracts, right? How does the cap look?

 

[mas0764]

No way they deal EP for that. It just won’t happen. They’d want an impact player/top 5 pick to move him..
As far as waiting for LaF/kakko to become 80 pt players, that could take 4 years

While I'm not sure you are correct re: the price on EP, I'm just saying generally.

If Mark Stone went for Erik Brannstrom, and Jack Eichel went for Krebs, Tuch, and a first, then we should be able to find a 22-24 future solid 1C (not saying a Crosby or McDavid) for Nils, Krav, and a first.

If Kakko and Laf takes 4 years, then we're screwed anyway. Zibanejad/Kreider/Panarin aren't winning a Cup without those two taking off, sorry to break the news. You can add 5 JT Millers.

 

[mas0764]

Perfect. The Rangers have had a great run of young forwards pushing into the top 6.

They need to fix that issue then.

When do you think this center will reach our 2nd line? 3 years? Igor is making what? Are Kreider and Trouba traded? Lindgren and Miller resigned? Schneider and Jones on bridge deals? Bread and Mika producing at 33 and 31 like they are now? We should be contending for a cup at this point, so I assume Laf and Kakko already have or be ready for some big contracts, right? How does the cap look?

You are right. The future is too hard to predict.

Trade everything for the next two seasons and f*** the rest.

 

[Mandar]

You are right about his skillet, he's never really shown the ability to create on the PP.

Soooo....he's more of an aluminum kind of player rather than cast iron?

 

[jay from jersey]

While I'm not sure you are correct re: the price on EP, I'm just saying generally.

If Mark Stone went for Erik Brannstrom, and Jack Eichel went for Krebs, Tuch, and a first, then we should be able to find a 22-24 future solid 1C (not saying a Crosby or McDavid) for Nils, Krav, and a first.

Comparing apples to bowling balls. Sens couldn’t afford stone.
EP is a top 5 pick and cornerstone of their future. Plus brainstorm was traded 1 year after his draft while his stock was at its highest..
But in the mean time of waiting on LaF/Kakko
3-4 years of Zibby/panarin/kreider are all older, and probably at least a little worse.
Shesty due for a massive raise along with a lot of others...
You realize the most GMs plan in the future is about 3 years ahead....
If you don’t show a massive improvement in that window, your likely getting shit-canned.
I don’t think Any GM has the clout to withstand a 5-6 year rebuild/waiting period.
Yzerman might be the only one, he’s like Jesus in DET