Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXIX

[Machinehead]

I would mind Clifford

 

[bobbop]

Smith or Staal for now, but it doesn't have to be DeAngelo. DeAngelo not playing PK shouldn't prevent him from getting ES minutes with Trouba.

So do you give him the defensive zone starts that Trouba takes at the expense of his offensive zone starts?

 

[Avery16]

So do you give him the defensive zone starts that Trouba takes at the expense of his offensive zone starts?

I give him the ES defensive zone starts that Trouba takes, but not at the expense of DeAngelo's offensive zone starts. Trouba is playing a lot of minutes. Both DeAngelo and Fox are probably capable of playing more.

 

[SA16]

So do you give him the defensive zone starts that Trouba takes at the expense of his offensive zone starts?

Are you aware the difference between DeAngelo and Trouba in offensive zone starts per game this year is 0.75 and in terms of defensive zone starts it's 0.44? Big deal. You're talking about a difference of one 5v5 faceoff per started shift per game.

This is a poorly phrased post by me because you are not aware of it (or this post) so I should really rewrite it but it works for everyone else.

For reference among the 99 dmen who have played 1000 minutes at 5v5 this year the difference in the player with the highest OZ Start % (Q. Hughes) and the player with the lowest (Z. Chara) is 2.5 offensive zone faceoff starts per game.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Krav deleted his posts

Trade incoming

 

[bobbop]

I give him the ES defensive zone starts that Trouba takes, but not at the expense of DeAngelo's offensive zone starts. Trouba is playing a lot of minutes. Both DeAngelo and Fox are probably capable of playing more.

In other words, you do not have defined defensive pairs. Good luck with that.

 

[Avery16]

In other words, you do not have defined defensive pairs. Good luck with that.

Yeah I dont think its so unorthodox to have different pairs for PP and PK. Thats why you practice PP and PK separately.

 

[Machinehead]

Your pairs don't just stay the same the entire game

 

[Irishguy42]

Your pairs don't just stay the same the entire game

Nah dude. Can't mess with the chemistry by changing pairings up between PP/PK/ES!

 

[Shesterkybomb]

You said that you are not loosing forwards at expense of defensemen. Or something to that effect. So then how are you keeping the whole band together?

Plenty of options to keep DeAngelo especially if there is a compliance buyout we can use on Hank. It might be unappealing but moving Staal in his final year with say a 3rd or even a 2nd rounder to a team that might have cap space, ie Ottawa is something we could look at, or maybe Smith and a 3rd maybe, I'm not a big fan of moving picks but I'd look at it like keeping DeAngelo signed for a 2nd or 3rd pick. All that said if DeAngelo wants 7x7 or something crazy like that for a career year then we probably have to move him due to the amount of money that would be on the back end and the amount of prospect dmen we have. Iit would have to be for a left shooting scoring winger or center though, a piece that could be used on the right side of our pp, or a left side dman on a team that needs right side d. It's not something that I'd like but money might dictate it.

 

[Barnaby]

Plenty of options to keep DeAngelo especially if there is a compliance buyout we can use on Hank. It might be unappealing but moving Staal in his final year with say a 3rd or even a 2nd rounder to a team that might have cap space, ie Ottawa is something we could look at, or maybe Smith and a 3rd maybe, I'm not a big fan of moving picks but I'd look at it like keeping DeAngelo signed for a 2nd or 3rd pick. All that said if DeAngelo wants 7x7 or something crazy like that for a career year then we probably have to move him due to the amount of money that would be on the back end and the amount of prospect dmen we have. Iit would have to be for a left shooting scoring winger or center though, a piece that could be used on the right side of our pp, or a left side dman on a team that needs right side d. It's not something that I'd like but money might dictate it.

My biggest issue with that contract is the likely need for a NTC which I wouldn’t want to give. I have zero desire to move ADA unless we get top dollar, but Troubas NTC will have kicked in and we don’t know what Fox 2nd deal will look like. I would just like some flexibility.

 

[Ola]

Nah dude. Can't mess with the chemistry by changing pairings up between PP/PK/ES!

It doesn't have to be a big issue of course, but it can be a bit problematic if you have a pair with one guy that plays almost all PP and no PK and the other vice versa. Simply because the PK guy can't play directly after the PP since his partner has to rest and the PP guy can't play after the PK because his partner has to rest. Of course you can mix up pairings, but if its extreme it does get a bit messy because big parts of a game you wouldn't have your normal D pairings together.

The result can easily become that you over play the top guys, but we don't want to do that with our depth at D. Its different if its prime Keith and Seabrook playing 30 minutes a night anyway, more or less taking double shifts after most PP/PKs.

 

[GAGLine]

My biggest issue with that contract is the likely need for a NTC which I wouldn’t want to give. I have zero desire to move ADA unless we get top dollar, but Troubas NTC will have kicked in and we don’t know what Fox 2nd deal will look like. I would just like some flexibility.

ADA has 3 more years of RFA status, so any NTC wouldn't kick in until year 4.

 

[Barnaby]

ADA has 3 more years of RFA status, so any NTC wouldn't kick in until year 4.

Good to know... thought there was something like that, but wasn’t sure. Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[RGY]

I'd be very interested in Kapanen. I'd just hope that later first could be subbed for another piece. The Rangers seem to have a glut of players that are NHL ready or soon to be NHL ready

No shot in hell i am dealing a late 1st for a 2nd/3rd line tweener. I like Kapanen a lot. The value is a 2nd or a 3rd and a prospect that is 2-3 years away, maybe more. Thats fair. OR, they revisit the goalie need and they send us Kapanen with an add to Georgiev who has RFA status, cost controllable for the cap situation, is 23/24, and could certainly become their #1 for multiple years.

Kapanen is not the guy you pony up high valued assets for. Thats how you get the organization into trouble and off the right path. You fan find a good 3rd liner for much cheaper in free agency if need be. May not be AS young or AS good as Kapanen with no potential to grow but will still get the job done and not cost you crazy assets

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

In other words, you do not have defined defensive pairs. Good luck with that.

Welcome to hockey.

 

[Avery16]

It doesn't have to be a big issue of course, but it can be a bit problematic if you have a pair with one guy that plays almost all PP and no PK and the other vice versa. Simply because the PK guy can't play directly after the PP since his partner has to rest and the PP guy can't play after the PK because his partner has to rest. Of course you can mix up pairings, but if its extreme it does get a bit messy because big parts of a game you wouldn't have your normal D pairings together.

The result can easily become that you over play the top guys, but we don't want to do that with our depth at D. Its different if its prime Keith and Seabrook playing 30 minutes a night anyway, more or less taking double shifts after most PP/PKs.

Maybe we shouldn't have one guy that plays almost all the PP and one that plays almost all the PK.

Also, we should try to stay off the PK.

 

[aufheben]

No shot in hell i am dealing a late 1st for a 2nd/3rd line tweener. I like Kapanen a lot. The value is a 2nd or a 3rd and a prospect that is 2-3 years away, maybe more. Thats fair. OR, they revisit the goalie need and they send us Kapanen with an add to Georgiev who has RFA status, cost controllable for the cap situation, is 23/24, and could certainly become their #1 for multiple years.

Kapanen is not the guy you pony up high valued assets for. Thats how you get the organization into trouble and off the right path. You fan find a good 3rd liner for much cheaper in free agency if need be. May not be AS young or AS good as Kapanen with no potential to grow but will still get the job done and not cost you crazy assets

A 3rd for a middle six player? Kapanen’s production has been similar to Buchnevich’s at the same age. Buchnevich almost got us a top-10 draft pick.

Kapanen is young, cost-controlled, and an RFA when his contract expires. He’s fast, can play both wings, and produces 5v5.

 

[SA16]

A 3rd for a middle six player? Kapanen’s production has been similar to Buchnevich’s at the same age. Buchnevich almost got us a top-10 draft pick.

If you falsely convince yourself that Kapanen's production is a function of being in the Toronto top 6 then you think he has minimal value. Of course this argument falls apart immediately when you see he rarely is in the top 6 outside of filling in when someone is injured.

 

[Irishguy42]

A 3rd for a middle six player? Kapanen’s production has been similar to Buchnevich’s at the same age. Buchnevich almost got us a top-10 draft pick.

Kapanen is young, cost-controlled, and an RFA when his contract expires. He’s fast, can play both wings, and produces 5v5.

Yeah but hE'S PrOpPeD Up bY SuPeRsTaRs

 

[UnSandvich]

If you falsely convince yourself that Kapanen's production is a function of being in the Toronto top 6 then you think he has minimal value. Of course this argument falls apart immediately when you see he rarely is in the top 6 outside of filling in when someone is injured.

This season, maybe. Over the last 3, he's spent almost 80 more 5v5 minutes with Matthews than any other F

EDIT: Per NST, Matthews has assisted on the most Kapanen goals (7), been assisted on the most Kapanen assists (10), and is 2nd in 3rd assists (4, one less than Rielly's 5)

 

[aufheben]

I mean if they lose Fast, and Kakko/Kravtsov don’t become difference-makers, this team is going to have the same bottom-6 issues next year and stagnate.

It’s also an insurance policy on Kakko not making the 2nd line. If that happens, it means we’ll literally have 1 decent RW on the roster. Kapanen could play 2RW, or 3RW if Kakko makes it (where there is a hole), or even 3LW (where there is also a hole) if Kravtsov makes it too. #23OA isn’t cheap but you get great bang for your buck.

 

[Avery16]

I mean if they lose Fast, and Kakko/Kravtsov don’t become difference-makers, this team is going to have the same bottom-6 issues next year and stagnate.

It’s also an insurance policy on Kakko nor making the 2nd line. If that happens, it means we’ll literally have 1 decent RW on the roster. Kapanen could play 2RW, or 3RW if Kakko makes it (where there is a hole), or even 3LW (where there is also a hole) if Kravtsov makes it. #23OA isn’t cheap but you get great bang for your buck.

It'll be a bigger problem than just the bottom six. We should face it- our overall F depth is our biggest weakness right now. Top-six, bottom-six.

 

[True Blue]

Plenty of options to keep DeAngelo especially if there is a compliance buyout we can use on Hank. It might be unappealing but moving Staal in his final year with say a 3rd or even a 2nd rounder to a team that might have cap space, ie Ottawa is something we could look at, or maybe Smith and a 3rd maybe, I'm not a big fan of moving picks but I'd look at it like keeping DeAngelo signed for a 2nd or 3rd pick. All that said if DeAngelo wants 7x7 or something crazy like that for a career year then we probably have to move him due to the amount of money that would be on the back end and the amount of prospect dmen we have. Iit would have to be for a left shooting scoring winger or center though, a piece that could be used on the right side of our pp, or a left side dman on a team that needs right side d. It's not something that I'd like but money might dictate it.

Even with a compliance buyout, I do not see how you can have a resigned Strome, resigned Buchnevich and a resigned DeAngelo.

Also, I cannot see any team paying Stall's salary. So now you would have to pick up a substantial portion of his salary and a 2nd or third round pick? Cannot see anyone doing that. Not to mention that they may not have a choice but to play Staal on the third pairing. MAYBE Hajek can step in.

And finally, If Strome is resigned and you have ZBad, if you are trading DeAngelo, you are trading him for a RW. So who are you looking at?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The forward depth issue will only be compounded when they inevitably trade Buchnevich in the next 6-12 months