Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXIII: 33rd thread twds the line of dead

[Trxjw]

All these weeks talking about Kreider to the Avs is going to result in Buchnevich for Zadorov and a general melt down.

 

[kovazub94]

Not at all. Spooner got us Strome. Maybe that deal doesn't happen if Spooner was a pending UFA. Namestnikov only netted us a 4th round pick, and Ottawa is almost certain to get more for him than that, but we aren't going to win every transaction.

In any case, Strome has had considerably more success with the Rangers than either of those 2. And as long as he is playing in our top 6, and with Panarin in particular, he should continue to have success. Every contract is a gamble, but giving Strome 2 years instead of 1 isn't really upping the risk all that much.

Consider also that we will need players to expose for the expansion draft. If we give Strome a 1 year deal, then he won't be eligible to be exposed, unless we re-sign him again before the draft. I'd rather just give him a 2 year deal now instead of having to worry about it next summer when he's a pending UFA.

I hear you and I definitely wouldn't be upset if Strome got two year. On the other hand there are considerations and situations in trade discussions where a one-year contract could be viewed more favorably than a contract with an extra year. It was your take that Strome is not getting a one-year contract or that it would be less beneficial than a two-year contracts. IMO it's not that black and white.

 

[mas0764]

I would take a slightly lesser deal from someone else than give Sakic Kreider for less than Newhook or equivalent.

You can't let him win because then he's gonna always treat you that way.

And yes, I understand, no need to repeat it, that "Newhook isn't realistic" and "Newhook isn't on the table."

I get it. No Kreider to Avs then.

 

[GAGLine]

while everyone is focusing on just kreider, i think georgieve is in play as well.

hank isnt going anywhere imo. not sure teams see him as a true #1 anymore and certainly question his ability to play an entire playoff run to the cup at 38 yrs of age. george is a guy that teams will view as a potential starter soon. i think

as for newhook time line, he wont finish school thats for sure. hell come early. i see him as a legit 2c dynamic and dangerous in 2 years. needs some more time to fill out. kids skating right now is sublime. great stride and has an extra gear. in his draft year, he was one of the 2 best skaters in the entire draft.

prefer to keep buchnevich who i believe is finding his way under quinn. hes got another level i believe. hes taken a little longer but i think hes got 30 goal upside. i really do.

Colorado is the only team that's really looking for a goalie right now. I can see Sakic being interested in Georgiev over Lundqvist, but I don't see him giving up the kind of asset we would require to move him. Georgiev moving in the offseason is much more likely, depending on what happens with Hank, as other teams will enter the mix.

I definitely want to keep Buch, though if there is a scenario that makes sense, a la moving Buch for defense and Skjei for offense, I could be down with it. What I don't want is to move Buch for futures. That doesn't make any sense to me, especially if Kreider is getting traded. If Buch goes, it needs to be for an NHL player of equal value.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Yep. I agree. They seem like lightweights. I was so impressed with Columbus last year. They took a real swing for the fences. Didn’t result in the ultimate goal but I bet they get it done before the Colorado and Toronto.

Yep. I agree. They seem like lightweights. I was so impressed with Columbus last year. They took a real swing for the fences. Didn’t result in the ultimate goal but I bet they get it done before the Colorado and Toronto.

I’m not gonna bash teams for being reluctant to give away their top prospects at the deadline especially for a rental. Back in 2012 we seemed to feel the same way when Columbus was demanding Kreider and MAC for Nash lol

 

[mas0764]

When is newhook even projected to break in the league? Could be two more years.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Edge]

Do you think fast gets traded at this deadline?

I think he has high odds of moving.

I also know the Flyers have asked about him, so there's where a possible "circle back" conversation could take place.

 

[Fireonk]

I would take a slightly lesser deal from someone else than give Sakic Kreider for less than Newhook or equivalent.

You can't let him win because then he's gonna always treat you that way.

And yes, I understand, no need to repeat it, that "Newhook isn't realistic" and "Newhook isn't on the table."

I get it. No Kreider to Avs then.

That doesn't make sense. If Sakic is ultimately giving you the best offer, even if it doesn't include Newhook, than he isn't really winning. Means he is willing to give more than any other gm so not sure why you would punish that.

 

[surlysailor]

My own thinking...
Would anyone do this kinda weird deal? Chris Kreider (50%), Lias Andersson and Yegor Rykov for Jack Studnicka, Trent Frederic, David Backes (50%) and a conditonal 2nd round pick (becomes 1st if Boston resigns CK or wins SC)? Buyout Backes in offseason

I personally always thought a Backes for Staal/Smith (cap retention to even out cap hits) deal would be good. Give NYR a player they can either bury or use on the 4th line and give Boston LHD for next season w/Krug, Chara & Gryzlk all U/RFAs. Tho I'm sure they'd rather clear the cap if they can to re-sign Krug

 

[kovazub94]

no see that is exactly what I’m talking about. I much rather pay Kreider 7 than Strome 5 over this next window. I don’t believe in planning 5 to 7 years out. You cross that bridge at that point. It’s about the upcoming window which is over these next 5 years. I much rather have Kreider playing those 5 years than Strome playing 4 of them while blocking chytil. And if he’s put on the third line? I don’t want to pay him 5 mil there either

Blocking Chytil is a myth. Strome could move to a wing or down the line and also the Rangers have the best PP since he was inserted into 1PP unit.

Otherwise, I go back to the same points:

1. Kreider and Strome are pretty separate considerations
2. Signing Kreider is not only about planning for years 5-7 when it's almost guaranteed to be shit. It's the fact (edit scratch - use "strong likelihood") that the Rangers OPENING their true contention window and Kreider's CLOSING his prime age performance have just one-year of overlap, two at most. A good example of where I would probably take an opposite view would be extending Zibanejad in two years.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Today is the day you tell Kreider take it or leave it, whatever Gortons final offer is. If he says no then you end negotiations, scratch him tonight and tomorrow , and have him gone before Monday.

 

[mas0764]

That doesn't make sense. If Sakic is ultimately giving you the best offer, even if it doesn't include Newhook, than he isn't really winning. Means he is willing to give more than any other gm so not sure why you would punish that.

Cause F him for bailing on the Kreider for 12th overall during the draft. I'm a vindictive bastard.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Today is the day you tell Kreider take it or leave it, whatever Gortons final offer is. If he says no then you end negotiations, scratch him tonight and tomorrow , and have him gone before Monday.

He is playing tonight. Tomorrow is more realistic he will say take it or leave it

 

[kovazub94]

It's allll about the $. Is there value in a guy who can be relatively productive filling in up and down the lineup, but is best suited as a 3C? Yes. Do you pay $5 mil for that? Not if you're smart.

And comes with a "guarantee" of 60-points? IMHO it's a pretty good deal if it's on a relatively short term.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Assuming they get a first round pick for Kreider, I wonder if the Sharks are a team that would be interested in making a deal in the summer. Wilson seems to desperately want a first in this draft, and they need to reset a bit. I believe some of our guys have also said they're interested in Georgiev

Maybe there's a bigger deal to be made here

 

[Fireonk]

Cause F him for bailing on the Kreider for 12th overall during the draft. I'm a vindictive bastard.

Haha, I am trying to imagine a world where GMs actually did that. Sakic refuses to trade with Gorton anymore because he wouldn't accept the best offer, rinse and repeat down the line, until no one trades with any one out of spite.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Assuming they get a first round pick for Kreider, I wonder if the Sharks are a team that would be interested in making a deal in the summer. Wilson seems to desperately want a first in this draft, and they need to reset a bit. I believe some of our guys have also said they're interested in Georgiev

Maybe there's a bigger deal to be made here

Rangers don’t seem interested in moving Georgiev unless they get back a lot

 

[BBKers]

The Boston side of your proposal is essentially our current ask, meanwhile we're including 1) Rykov, 2) Andersson, 3) salary retention on Kreider, and 4) swallowing half the Backes contract in order to get it.

Way too much on our end.

Thanks for your input. It was quite the price.

 

[GAGLine]

Assuming they get a first round pick for Kreider, I wonder if the Sharks are a team that would be interested in making a deal in the summer. Wilson seems to desperately want a first in this draft, and they need to reset a bit. I believe some of our guys have also said they're interested in Georgiev

Maybe there's a bigger deal to be made here

Yeah, I speculated about that when the news first broke about Wilson wanting a 1st rounder. Labanc has been speculated as a target for Georgiev, but I'd love to find a way to get a guy like Meier or Hertl. Probably a pipe dream, and either would be expensive, but with Hertl's injury, maybe he's a possibility.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Remember when Brassard, John Moore and Ryan Clowe were traded here a couple of hours before game-time and made it in time to play?


Fun times. That game was one of the most fun games I've watched.

 

[charliemurphy]

Has anyone heard anything regarding Skjei rumors?
Montreal's left side is brutal and I can't help but think that something can happen by the deadline or at the draft... regardless of the draft taking place in Montreal.

 

[Ola]

All these weeks talking about Kreider to the Avs is going to result in Buchnevich for Zadorov and a general melt down.

I can take a lot, but if Gorton swings a move for LD that is anything short of top 10 or has that potential I would hurt me a lot lol.

 

[kovazub94]

Correct, there's a lot of moving parts that have some degree of connectivity.

For example, the Rangers could be eyeing Buch for a LD. From there, they could keep the LD along with Skjei, or they could move Skjei for a wing.

And both of those actions, could very well be tied into what happens with Kreider.

And what happens with Kreider, could also be tied into what their plans are for Lundqvist.

And what happens with Lundqvist could be tied into what types of offers they recieve for Georgiev.

And what types of offers they receive for Georgiev could be tied into how they approach moving Buch...

People tend to think of roster building as being very linear. A lot of times it isn't.

It's more like a choose your own adventure book:

You reach page 5, and you have top the option to go to page 6 or page 18.

Page 6 leads to a choice between page 12 or page 24. Page 18 leads to a choice between page 25 or page 33.

Etc. etc. etc.

So when we talk about the Rangers having multiple balls in the air/plates spinning, it's them trying to figure out what paths are available and what paths are not available. In some cases there are two deals that can both happen. In other cases, one deal might negate the ability to close the second deal.

So you end up with a scenario where (for example), the Rangers could be looking at trades that involve various combinations of defensemen and wingers. Not all of them are going to co-exist, some will be one or the other. But it's not just a matter of "keep Kreider or trade Kreider", or "keep Buch or move Buch", or whatever other name we want to insert in that type of sentence.

And that's important to remember when we hear different team names, potentially different player names, etc.

All make sense but one thing that Gorton needs to consider is that having too many moving parts could be detrimental too. I'm sure he realizes that and therefore prioritizes some actions over others as "musts" or not and also spreads them out over immediate, short term and long term.

 

[rangers1314]

Remember when Brassard, John Moore and Ryan Clowe were traded here a couple of hours before game-time and made it in time to play?


Fun times. That game was one of the most fun games I've watched.

Didn't Clowe score twice in that game? After coming in with an goose egg on the season.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Has anyone heard anything regarding Skjei rumors?
Montreal's left side is brutal and I can't help but think that something can happen by the deadline or at the draft... regardless of the draft taking place in Montreal.

I can definitely see something around Skjei for Domi happening, if not a straight across swap.