Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXII: One Thing Leads to Another

[Edge]

Buch or Kreider?

I think Buch might be a more comfortable fit for Colorado because he has a more certain future with them. Ditto for a team like Colorado.

That was also the draw last year with Edmonton.

 

[mas0764]

IMO if Gorton had zero interest in possibly keeping Kreider he would be gone by now. Now there are only a few teams left who all have picks in the 26-31 range and either don’t have good farm systems or aren’t willing to give up one of their top 2 prospects

Well, it's already reported that the Rangers do not have "zero" interest in keeping Kreider. We already know if they can reach a deal, they will.

But there is nothing to suggest that Gorton not moving him conveys anything. All the experts have said Kreider trade could come down to the final day and that would not be surprising. There is nothing to glean here.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think Buch might be a more comfortable fit for Colorado because he has a more certain future with them. Ditto for a team like Colorado.

That was also the draw last year with Edmonton.

Wanna clear this up?

 

[offdacrossbar]

Personally, I think his upside is higher.

Studnicka has never made me think he could be a first line center if all the pieces come together. Newhook has.

as an early adopter of alex newhook as you were @Edge , i can say from my own eye test, hes legit.

ive seen him in person 3 times this year . each time hes been one of the best players on the ice. his vision and ability to push the puck are a cut above.

this kids gonna be a sure fire 2C and has 1C upside

 

[NYRangers0723]

I’m telling you nobody is giving up a kings ransom for a rental. At least the Devils got a good pick for Hall. If we were able to get that for Kreider I would be more willing to do it but I see this as a meh return currently

 

[bl02]

what about the proposed 'great' hockey player, in Cirelli?

Hopefully he’s not another product of his environment like Names was

 

[Edge]

Right now, I firmly believe the odds still favor Kreider being traded.

I think they’ve come down 60/40, but they “gotta close the gaps”.

It all rises and falls on that. If both sides were in agreement on the terms, it’d be done by now. So there is still terrain to be traversed and it’s tricky terrain.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Typical.

 

[duhmetreE]

Hopefully he’s not another product of his environment like Names was

He doesn't play with the big boys. He's a great 2way center.

Zibs - Chytil - Cirelli would be amazing.... now and in the future

 

[Ghost of jas]

Typical.

This is also called trying to retain leverage.

 

[Edge]

I’m telling you nobody is giving up a kings ransom for a rental. At least the Devils got a good pick for Hall. If we were able to get that for Kreider I would be more willing to do it but I see this as a meh return currently

I do worry that some of these reports can make going down rabbit holes a little easy.

Of course the Rangers are going to ask for a ransom.

But until you start seeing reports of teams offering a ransom, it’s exactly what it says - the Rangers asking.

 

[RGY]

Trading with Sakic is like trading with Yzerman.

Stay away.

 

[Edge]

Wanna clear this up?

Calgary.

Damn western teams with the letter C in their name.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Right now, I firmly believe the odds still favor Kreider being traded.

I think they’ve come down 60/40, but they “gotta close the gaps”.

It all rises and falls on that. If both sides were in agreement on the terms, it’d be done by now. So there is still terrain to be traversed and it’s tricky terrain.

I think the closer the deadline comes the more CK knows that he has to make a decision. Personally I believe he loves it here and wants to stay. The only other place he would go is Boston but their return would suck

 

[Edge]

as an early adopter of alex newhook as you were @Edge , i can say from my own eye test, hes legit.

ive seen him in person 3 times this year . each time hes been one of the best players on the ice. his vision and ability to push the puck are a cut above.

this kids gonna be a sure fire 2C and has 1C upside

Yeah, I had him, Turcotte and Zegras all in the same grouping and have not been disappointed by their D+1 efforts.

 

[duhmetreE]

Buch, Georgie and Lias
for
Newhook and Kaut

please stop. I know that's not happeneing but they really dont have any roster players. I'm tired of Jost. Maybe Kamenev?

 

[mas0764]

Your entire post is your feelings and opinions. Dont pass them off as fact.

It's a message board.... lots of opinions here.

Trying to say that making the playoffs wont help this group moving forward is absurd. Absurd.

Good thing I didn't say that. I said I "vehemently, endlessly" disagree that it's just as important to make the playoffs now as it is to acquire top end talent, and I stand by that. I didn't say it doesn't help at all.

But I challenge the cliche that 18 year old Kakko OR 28 year old Panarin OR 26 year old Zibanejad really needs playoff experience THIS season (the latter two already have some playoff experience and the former is so young he has ample opportunity). It's not necessary right now. Plenty of teams have had their cores experience FAR more losing seasons consecutively for me to agree that it's more important than having top talent. It's just not. Talent is way more important.

Get the experience after you get the talent. Which, by the way, by as soon as next year, I will be in agreement, there will be no more room for sell offs.

And you say its just as unimportant as it was for last year’s team.

It is just as unimportant as last year, which was our 2nd year missing the playoffs in a row. Rebuilding teams who established dynasties have missed the playoffs FAR, FAR longer than the Rangers have. Playoff experience is eventually vital but not imminently vital, there's just no argument that our young sub-25 year old players (many of whom are sub-22 year old players) need that experience now. 2 years out of the playoffs versus 3 is largely unimportant.

Did last year’s team have Panarin? Trouba? Kakko? The emergence of DeAngelo? Fox? Did it have Chytil in his 3rd year now showing signs where he can take over with his size and skill at times? Did it have Igor?

Irrelevant to my point.

And then you take your long reach a step further that it might not even be important for the growth of this group to make the playoffs next year.

It's not important that they get it NEXT YEAR (or this year). What, am I to believe that if Panarin suffers a season ending injury in week 1, and the Rangers miss the playoffs, that Kakko's development is forever harmed? No, it's not. Kakko does not need playoff experience now OR next year.

The leaps that are being attempted to push a narrative and angle are becoming endless.

Well, it's transparent that some have also assumed a position just because they are out of patience for a rebuild.

 

[bl02]

He doesn't play with the big boys. He's a great 2way center.

Zibs - Chytil - Cirelli would be amazing.... now and in the future

Maybe I’m being super picky but if it was the Vancouver pick I would say yes

 

[duhmetreE]

Are you related to True Blue?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I like Colorado. MacK is one of the top 5 players in the league. Makar is insane. Rantaanen a sniper and Landeskog is a great leader. But that team isn't winning anything with their goaltending or depth or inexperience, I don't care how good those guys are. I'm not crazy about their D either. And I'd be saying these things prior to their injuries.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Maybe I’m being super picky but if it was the Vancouver pick I would say yes

Belongs to the Devils

 

[RGY]

It's a message board.... lots of opinions here.



Good thing I didn't say that. I said I "vehemently, endlessly" disagree that it's just as important to make the playoffs now as it is to acquire top end talent, and I stand by that. I didn't say it doesn't help at all.

But I challenge the cliche that 18 year old Kakko OR 28 year old Panarin OR 26 year old Zibanejad really needs playoff experience THIS season (the latter two already have some playoff experience and the former is so young he has ample opportunity). It's not necessary right now. Plenty of teams have had their cores experience FAR more losing seasons consecutively for me to agree that it's more important than having top talent. It's just not. Talent is way more important.

Get the experience after you get the talent. Which, by the way, by as soon as next year, I will be in agreement, there will be no more room for sell offs.



It is just as unimportant as last year, which was our 2nd year missing the playoffs in a row. Rebuilding teams who established dynasties have missed the playoffs FAR, FAR longer than the Rangers have. Playoff experience is eventually vital but not imminently vital, there's just no argument that our young sub-25 year old players (many of whom are sub-22 year old players) need that experience now. 2 years out of the playoffs versus 3 is largely unimportant.



Irrelevant to my point.



It's not important that they get it NEXT YEAR (or this year). What, am I to believe that if Panarin suffers a season ending injury in week 1, and the Rangers miss the playoffs, that Kakko's development is forever harmed? No, it's not. Kakko does not need playoff experience now OR next year.



Well, it's transparent that some have also assumed a position just because they are out of patience for a rebuild.

Wow a lot of twisting of the words. A TON of conjecture in this long, long post. Keep making shit up dude. I mean who the hell are you to determine that the playoff experience this year or next would not be extremely beneficial to Kakko, or Panarin, or Zibanejad? Oh I got it, must be true that it wont because it doesnt fit your grand plan, so the playoffs could not possibly be a benefit to those main components of our team. Because it prevents us from drafting XYZ in June who may or may not pan out.

also what “cores” of other teams experienced multiple years of losing that proved so beneficial? Which ones? Crosby/Malkin? Ovechkin/Backstrom? Kane/Toews? How long did those groups go for? Ovechkin didnt finally win ONE until 2 years ago. You are basing off a template from Chicago and Pittsburgh that had two teams step in shit with generational talents the years they had their top picks. Great example.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I think the closer the deadline comes the more CK knows that he has to make a decision. Personally I believe he loves it here and wants to stay. The only other place he would go is Boston but their return would suck

Beecher would be a good ask from Boston.

 

[bl02]

Belongs to the Devils

I know that was just saying if Tampa hadn’t traded the Vancouver pick to the devils I would do it

 

[mas0764]

Wow a lot of twisting of the words.

What words am I twisting? I think I'm being perfectly clear and you just don't really have a response.

A TON of conjecture in this long, long post. Keep making shit up dude.

Excellent ad hominem response. Do you have a substantive rebuttal?

I mean who the hell are you to determine that the playoff experience this year or next would not be extremely beneficial to Kakko, or Panarin, or Zibanejad?

Once again, I did not say it would not be beneficial. I said it is not MORE beneficial than acquiring top talent, nor is it vital to acquire said playoff experience THIS season.

I think we can agree that we want this team to win multiple cups in the next decade or so. Yes, playoff experience is important to that goal. But it's not more important than having top talent, because you first get the talent, and then you get experience for that talent. And if we are talking about a ten year window or so from this year (call it "year 1"), then said experience does not have to come in year one. It can come in year 2 or even year 3.

Because if you get all the experience in year 1, but then you are short on talent, you have a much harder time going back and fixing the talent deficiency. Whereas if you are short on playoff experience but you have the talent, the talent is gonna do a lot of winning in the regular season and then acquire said playoff experience very soon.

This goes back to what I said first: It's kinda historically demonstrated that drafting top players early in the draft is the best way to build a long term contender (in any sport, really).

I'd say we are 1-2 long term pieces away still. I feel comfortable saying we can parlay excess assets into ONE of those long term pieces. The other, I'd like to get in this draft. We have opportunity. We should maximize our chances.

Oh I got it, must be true that it wont because it doesnt fit your grand plan, so the playoffs could not possibly be a benefit to those main components of our team. Because it prevents us from drafting XYZ in June who may or may not pan out.

I mean, at this point, you're not responding substantively to anything I have said. I didn't say the playoffs aren't a benefit, I said it's not more important to get playoff experience than it would be to get another top player in here (say, Rossi or Lundell, even). Please stop putting words in my mouth.