Speculation: Roster building thread XXIV:

[eco's bones]

That is just bad excuses for DQ. Its a theme in this organization, the players must be held accountable but the coach and the GM aren't. Will anyone ask Gorton a question about his fetish about bridge-deals vis-a-vis Tony D? Of course not.

It was a bad move by DQ from my perspective. Buch was really singled out. Kreider was struggling a ton at the same point. Howden was completely under the ice. Buch had really stepped up his game and during a long stretch played really good hockey just up until that point, but DQ takes Buch off the ice and keeps sending Brendan Smith out there in a scoring role and it becomes a big thing.

The results speak for themselves, they were awful.

Unjust as it may have been a player has basically two directions they can go with these things--up or down. I don't think Buch isn't trying and lately he's been battling the flu. He's stronger on his pins this year--he's also more active physically and more responsible defensively---both are areas he's improved in fairly significantly since Quinn became coach IMO. As an offensive force though he's more of a follower than a leader on whatever line he plays on and that's been the case ever since he became a Ranger. He has excellent skill but also ongoing confidence issues. But anyway when I say follower--if he's in the top 6 he's never been close to being the best player on his line--if he's playing with lesser skilled players he might be the best player on the line then but those lines then don't produce. He's not a driver of the offense--he's very capable of finishing plays other start and he's also very capable of making a pass that sets up a goal. He's good in a top 6 role but he's almost always a passenger type then. A great player though is more than just his skillset--it's even more than just hockey IQ too. Those things are necessary to be a great player but mentality is the thing that puts the player over the top.

 

[TheTakedown]

They are very different players, so to answer your question I would look to our prospect pool. When you look you see Nils Lundkvist as next man up, who I see as closer to a Deangelo type but with much better defense and less grit and flare. So i trade Deangelo, as he can get us the higher return and is more replaceable. I feel more confident in the defensive zone with Trouba Fox Lundkvist than I do with Fox Deangelo Lundkvist.

DeAngelo is almost at the point where he is not replaceable...

You trade the prospect and his associated "potential" for whatever you can get.

 

[McRanger]

 

[TheTakedown]

You think all of my posts are negative.

That's because most of your posts *are*, in fact, negative.

It's okay to be honest with yourself every once in a awhile, son...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Avery16]

Those players aren't mutually exclusive. There's no reason we can't keep both. If ADA does get traded, it won't have anything to do with Trouba.

It’s absurd to think that depth in a particular position has nothing to do with whether or not a player in that position gets traded.

 

[Avery16]

Why Rangers should strike now on Alex Georgiev trade

 

[kovazub94]

I know that this is a message board and thus one for discussing issues, but Trouba is NOT getting traded. He is here for a very, very long time. His play has been not really all that different than when he was with the Jets. He has been pretty solid.

DeAngelo and Trouba do not depend on each other for trading value. They bring different things to the table. Things that the other one cannot and will not bring. You are not trading DeAngelo. 23 year old defensemen that are trending for 55-60 points simply do not grow on trees. Look at the names of those who have done in in the last 10 years, let alone at this early age. Again, unless the Jets want to talk about someone like Connor, DeAngelo is not going anywhere.

Trouba plays the toughest minutes on the team. He plays the hardest matchups on the team. DeAngelo cannot even come close to being able to do that. Frankly neither can Fox. Fox has very good IQ and am sure will develop into an adequate defender. But the likelihood of him becoming DeAngelo's equivalent on offense is small as is the chances of him being what Trouba is defensively. But that has nothing to do with him not developing into an excellent defenseman who plays fine D and contributes significantly to the offense. The fact of the matter is that he is at his best paired with Lindgren. There is a reason that their play has been improving steadily.

The desire to dismantle of what can be an excellent right side its pretty mind boggling. It is much more difficult to find RD than LD. And now there three. Keane is not here and is not likley to be as good (and I like him). Lundqvist is not even in North America and some are talking about him in a way that reminds me of the completely unrealistic expectations laid upon Kakko.

I don't know where the idea that Trouba was / is being paid what should've been given to ADA comes from but it is at the root of this trade Trouba non-sense. Teams need both Trouba and ADA types when building a complete roster, and finding cap room for ADA has nothing to do with what Trouba is paid for all of his prime years.

 

[kovazub94]

This. Buch is much more engaged, both along the boards and on the backcheck. That's all DQ's doing. Buch is still getting plenty of offensive chances, he just isn't converting on them. That's on Buch and he'll have to figure it out. Unlike some fans, I'm not going to give him away so he can figure it out somewhere else. He's doing the right things and sooner or later, the results will come.

100%.

 

[Edge]

Why Rangers should strike now on Alex Georgiev trade

Would love a value equivalency of Halak.

 

[kovazub94]

DeAngelo's issues are behind him. Leave it in the past, he's a great teammate, and a personailty that stands out. I always hear NYR fans complaining we don't have enough personality, and now we have it so you want to trade him because of issues from (for the most part) half a decade ago? We finally have an elite offensive defenseman.

Also, I see people used Buch's benching as an excuse for poor performance. I'm a huge DQ critic and skeptic, but Buch isn't Kakko. He's not getting used to a new continent, not in his first year. Maybe the benching could have been harsh or a bit too quick, but a lot of it is in how the player reacts. Buch is 24, he's been through a benching before from both AV and DQ. He should be able to react in a good way to a benching, see DeAngelo, Tony from last season. Look where he's at now.

The only poster who brought Quinn's benching of Buch as issue was @Ola who's a known DQ's critic, like you. On the other hand he recognizes Buch's value (but chose to ignore the improvement in his overall game under Quinn because it didn't fit the agenda). Oh the irony

 

[Alluckks]

Entertaining a trade for Deangelo makes sense; but, selling him off because you equate him to Bill Peters is laughable

 

[kovazub94]

Yeah I don't see the "Quinn is hurting Buchnevich" angle at all. The only thing hurting Buch right now is his bad luck. He's getting plenty of opportunity from Quinn to play through his struggles.

Now if one is Quinn's basher - shouldn't he be critiqued for this???

 

[Avery16]

Would love a value equivalency of Halak.

Eller has blossomed, but I think Montreal and St. Louis both expected that to happen sooner than it did.

 

[kovazub94]

When discussing defenseman, there is a small matter called the expansion draft that has to be worked into the conversation. Unlike goaltenders, the Rangers could have a protection problem on the back end.

Move Skjei - issue resolved.

 

[SA16]

So we'll lose a marginal 3rd pairing defenseman in Hajek or Lindgren in the expansion draft? Big deal. Probably will be the same people that lost their minds when we lost Lindberg last time.

 

[Kovalev27]

Not sure how Georgiev’s resume comes even remotely close to halaks at the time of that deal.

I think Gorton is overvaluing his asset which he’s been known to do at times and has ended up taking pennies on the dollar for guys that should have brought back more if dealt sooner.

Georgiev can’t go 3 games without having a stinker this year. That’s just been the case. Halak was knocking off ovechkin in the playoffs

 

[kinger8998]

The only poster who brought Quinn's benching of Buch as issue was @Ola who's a known DQ's critic, like you. On the other hand he recognizes Buch's value (but chose to ignore the improvement in his overall game under Quinn because it didn't fit the agenda). Oh the irony

I criticize Quinn often, but his handling of Buch is not an area I can criticize. Buch is certainly more engaged, which is because of Quinn. My Buch criticisms are well noted, so to sum it up he has value being paid as a 3rd liner but I think expecting him to be more thaj that or him getting paid more than that would be bad for NYR.

 

[Savant]

When discussing defenseman, there is a small matter called the expansion draft that has to be worked into the conversation. Unlike goaltenders, the Rangers could have a protection problem on the back end.

I mean, they are going to lose someone. I’m not going to be heartbroken about anyone that would be picked, and I certainly am not going to give Seattle a premium draft pick (BJs gave Vegas a 1st to not take Anderson) to cut a side deal

 

[Savant]

Not sure how Georgiev’s resume comes even remotely close to halaks at the time of that deal.

I think Gorton is overvaluing his asset which he’s been known to do at times and has ended up taking pennies on the dollar for guys that should have brought back more if dealt sooner.

Georgiev can’t go 3 games without having a stinker this year. That’s just been the case. Halak was knocking off ovechkin in the playoffs

People thought Sakic over valued Duchene, and look how that turned out.

 

[Trxjw]

Would love a value equivalency of Halak.

Which one?

 

[kovazub94]

DeAngelo-Fox should be a full time thing.

I'm fine with ADA - Fox pairing in limited minutes and specific situations where the Rangers need to force offense. Otherwise, I'm traditionalist and want Lindgren - Fox type pairing in regular situations.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm fine with ADA - Fox pairing in limited minutes and specific situations where the Rangers need to force offense. Otherwise, I'm traditionalist and want Lindgren - Fox type pairing in regular situations.

I think it would really behoove the Rangers to toss ADA and Fox out there in all situations right now to see if what they're doing will carry over a larger sample of minutes and match ups.

If they continue to push a ton of the shot attempts/scoring chances when ever they're on ice, it would be foolish to break them up for any reason. It won't be nearly 70%, but it doesn't have to be that high.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Why Rangers should strike now on Alex Georgiev trade

Agree with this. Shesterkin is the future, move forward with him and Hank splitting and transition him to be the starter next season with Hank as mentor.

Georgiev is good and still has room to grow but I'm convinced his ceiling is a high end backup/1b platoon guy. As Larry points out, he hasn't exactly been stellar the past month or so.

I want Shesty as my starter plus also have whatever Georgiev can net us in a trade into the fold sooner rather than later plus no more 3 goalie garbage.

I feel like the interest in Georgiev is probably as high as it's going to get. Try to capitalize on that.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Why Rangers should strike now on Alex Georgiev trade

Brooks is the worst hack

trade Georgiev now
Resign Kreider now
Resigning DeAngelo would kill the cap (apparently resigning Kreider wouldn’t)