Speculation: Roster building thread XXIV:

[Fitzy]

Thoughts for today-

1) The choice for ADA will be a 3 year deal that takes him on a fasttrack to UFA at a lower rate (I'd wager around 4 million) , or a full on 7-8 year extension with a hefty price tag of 5.5+ million. Which ADA prefers kind of depends on how much he think he can increase his value even more.

2) It's not just the forwards that we expect youth improvement from. I have every expectation that Fox, Lindgren, and hopefully one of Hajek or Rykov will be much better with more and more NHL experience.

3) We obviously should expect some young forwards in returns for Kreider, Buchnevich, Fast, Georgy, ect. That should help. Another aquisition of a player like Lemeiux would do wonders for this team's depth.

4) Even for you folks who don't want a lengthy deal for Strome even at an extremely discounted rate- I'd argue that the way the cap works itself out he might arguably have more value at next years deadline on a one year arbitration deal, than he would in an offseason where the acquiring team would immediately feel compelled to re-sign him. And I remain unconvinced that his trade return would be terribly satisfying anyways. Chytil has looked great but he is not yet ready to take on the very heavy PK responsibilities that Ryan plays for us.

5) Buch for Puljujarvi would be a bad trade.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I think it really depends on what they do with their resources and/or what trades are available or not available.

I'd expect more depth signings and moves, but I also think the team wouldn't hesitate to package assets if the right players came along.

Additionally, a lot depends on Chytil's next steps, Kakko's progress and whether Kravtsov can make the jump next season. Then you have the possibility of another high pick who may or may not be in play for next season.

But there's way too many moving parts right now.

Agreed, but the debate remains on who the right players are.

 

[Trxjw]

I think of all the things that could impact TDA's future here, the new contract might be lower on the list. The offense is undeniable. The sandpaper he brings is plenty welcome. He's growing as a player each week. You can easily make the case for living with his defensive warts if he's putting up 65 points a season. That all being said, that case takes a hit when you have 2 other very good RHD on your blue line, a couple in your pipeline, and some really serious holes in other parts of your lineup. It gets even harder to justify if you have teams knocking on your door with intriguing trade opportunities.

 

[mas0764]

This is one way to look at it. Another way is that we didn't get much improvement/guys haven't performed up to expectation. Namely Kakko/Kravtsov/Andersson/Howden/Hajek who have all either stagnated or worse. Which would have been the better outcome? Remains to be seen.

I don't really see how you can look at it that way. Kakko and Kravtsov had never played a second in the league so they haven't stagnated. They haven't lived up to "expectations" of people on a message board -- including my own, but then again, I don't know anything. I think despite our expectations it's still perfectly reasonable to believe these guys are every bit of what we want from them but they just can't do it as 18 and 19 year olds (well, Kravstov just turned 20 last month).

Libor Hajek has played a grand total of 33 NHL games, so we may want to slow down our expectations for what he should be at this point.

Brett Howden, eh, I'm not sure who ever expected him to be more than like a third line player anyway, so I don't know how far behind he is at 21 years old. The problem is the team is counting on guys like him but as a 21 year old future third liner, he's simply not dependable.

Lias Andersson is the one who has truly disappointed, because he's supposed to have more talent than a guy like Howden but yet is showing way less and then quit on the team. But maybe that's on him.

Conversely, Fox, Chytil, DeAngelo and Brendan Lemieux all appear to be coming along nicely, so I don't know that I'm alarmed at this point about underachieving. The reality is that 18, 19, 20, and 21 year olds have a tough time in this league. Sure, maybe there are more 21 year old superstars now than ever before, but we also don't have a Connor McDavid talent.

Even with Kakko we may have more like a Barkov or Rantanen type talent and they did not fully blossom till 21 and 22. I expect Kakko to be more than those guys, but it's very possible that he is better than them and yet still doesn't show it till his age 19 or age 20 seasons.

Kravtsov I'm anxious about but not necessarily negative about him. If we're hoping he's a Tarasenko or Kuznetsov level talent, again, they didn't break out till 22-23 years old.

In short: I think it's kinda unarguable that we are "on pace." Adding Panarin didn't hurt that pace (unless you want to argue that we'd be in the running for #1 overall without him, but then again, he's playing like a top 5 player in this league right now, so..... lose one elite player but gain another). And we are still in position to add another legit top line player this draft.

 

[mas0764]

Multiple conversations involving Edmonton's first and/or JP, depending on the date of the talks and whether a larger deal was being discussed.

They were talking with Edmonton right up until the 11th hour at the draft.

Coulda had Zegras if we could have pulled that off.

argh

 

[Edge]

Agreed, but the debate remains on who the right players are.

And I expect that debate to continue for well beyond the next few months.

 

[Edge]

Coulda had Zegras if we could have pulled that off.

argh

I've long suspected he was their guy at that spot, and arguably my favorite player in that draft --- so that would've been nice.

But the near misses always have a particular sting to them. It's like looking at the near McD to Edmonton trade in 2016, or the Canucks taking Mittelstadt instead of Pettersson in 2017.

You swap out Andersson, Howden, Hajak and Lundqvist for Keller and Pettersson and we have a very different looking team right now.

 

[wafflepadsave]

And I expect that debate to continue for well beyond the next few months.

That’s when the hockey trades will set us up or most people will lose it.

 

[True Blue]

That all being said, that case takes a hit when you have 2 other very good RHD on your blue line, a couple in your pipeline, and some really serious holes in other parts of your lineup. It gets even harder to justify if you have teams knocking on your door with intriguing trade opportunities.

Until Fox can actually do what DeAngelo is doing offensively, he is not in the same boat. What Trouba does is not the same thing as what DeAngelo does, so he should not be in the equation. What you have in the pipelines are hopes and dreams and not facts. What you have with DeAngelo is someone who is in fact putting up the numbers.

Look of course Gorton & JD should listen to all offers. But when it comes to DeAngelo, unless someone is bringing a name to the table of a similarly aged, similarly trajectoried forward, the discussion should be moot. Want to discuss Kyle Connor? Then sure. There are a lot more players like that in the NHL than there are names of defensemen who are putting up the points that DeAngelo is trending towards. And frankly has been putting up for about a year. Look at the names of defensemen that netted that many points in the last 10 years.

 

[EdJovanovski]

DeAngelo is a unique talent, there is nobody in the league like him. He’s been hovering around top 5 in defenseman scoring all season long on an awful team, and has an edge to his game that rivals anybody in the league. He is a game changer and has balls of steel, he willfully went after Johnston. You know, the same guy Tom Wilson cowered and literally ran away from and then wouldn’t drop his gloves another time lol. DeAngelo was made for the playoffs and there is nobody like him

 

[RGY]

Until Fox can actually do what DeAngelo is doing offensively, he is not in the same boat. What Trouba does is not the same thing as what DeAngelo does, so he should not be in the equation. What you have in the pipelines are hopes and dreams and not facts. What you have with DeAngelo is someone who is in fact putting up the numbers.

Look of course Gorton & JD should listen to all offers. But when it comes to DeAngelo, unless someone is bringing a name to the table of a similarly aged, similarly trajectoried forward, the discussion should be moot. Want to discuss Kyle Connor? Then sure. There are a lot more players like that in the NHL than there are names of defensemen who are putting up the points that DeAngelo is trending towards. And frankly has been putting up for about a year. Look at the names of defensemen that netted that many points in the last 10 years.

The stupidity of all this started when it became a DeAngelo vs Trouba debate. And it really doesn’t have to be. Trouba is not blocking DeAngelo from getting paid. No, that would be Staal and Smith. Those are the culprits. You take Smith’s money and you got DeAngelo’s raise who still has RFA status. The Smith and Staal contracts expire in a year. Hank’s as well. They will find a way to navigate the waters.

 

[broadwayblue]

Well I'll preface by saying that there's a difference between look for compared to what they might get.

I think in Kreider's case, I think they'd love to add a young NHL player, but the I have doubts they get a high-level one. Teams just don't trade those guys for rentals.

I think you a first round pick is the most likely return, with a good prospect on the cusp of being an NHL player (like Hayes deal last season). If they're able to push something closer to the Nash deal, you're probably looking at a guy in his mid 20s who has some warts, a first round pick, and a younger prospect who either hasn't turned pro and/or isn't viewed as being a high ceiling prospect, but is seen as an NHL player.

From there, the question becomes whether the Rangers would actually use the first round pick --- I'd put the odds there at 50/50.

With Georgiev, if he's not part of a larger package, I think they're aiming for a middle six forward, or maybe even defensive help for the left side. I get there's a market for Georgiev, but I'm not sure I totally buy into the belief that he brings back Kapanen and something additional by himself. I think we'd have to add something on our end.

Thanks. Sounds about right.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

There are too many sweet guys in our locker room. Mika, Panarin, Strome, Buch, Kakko, Chytil, Fast. They all love puppies and like to share cute memes of rainbows and bunny rabbits.

We need more assholes. That’s what I like about guys like ADA, Trouba and Lemieux. That swagger they walk around with is infectious.

I’m not saying we NEEDZ MOAR TUFFNESS. I just think we need a few more guys that have that kind of personality. I’d like to see Gorton bring in another player or two that has a screensaver of blood and gore than the Care Bears.

Messier was a complete dick, and I think that helped him. So, that’s what I’m saying. We need more dicks.

 

[BBKers]

The eminent return for "AllStar Chris Kreider" can be packaged with some more assets to get some high octane fuel. For sure

 

[Avery16]

 

[FIRE DRURY]

ADA-Trouba
Miller-Fox
Robertson/Jones-Lundkvist

Just gotta wait a few years for this to happen.

 

[TheDirtyH]

DeAngelo is a unique talent, there is nobody in the league like him.

 

[LORDE]

Trade the All Star NOW PLZ

 

[Trxjw]

Until Fox can actually do what DeAngelo is doing offensively, he is not in the same boat. What Trouba does is not the same thing as what DeAngelo does, so he should not be in the equation. What you have in the pipelines are hopes and dreams and not facts. What you have with DeAngelo is someone who is in fact putting up the numbers.

Look of course Gorton & JD should listen to all offers. But when it comes to DeAngelo, unless someone is bringing a name to the table of a similarly aged, similarly trajectoried forward, the discussion should be moot. Want to discuss Kyle Connor? Then sure. There are a lot more players like that in the NHL than there are names of defensemen who are putting up the points that DeAngelo is trending towards. And frankly has been putting up for about a year. Look at the names of defensemen that netted that many points in the last 10 years.

Nowhere did I say that all 3 were equal, or that they do the same thing. They're all different players and bring different pros and cons to the lineup. I'm also not saying that the Rangers should kick anyone out the door because of their prospect pool. But when you cut through the trends and projections, the Rangers have two major strengths right now: Goaltending and RHD. Can the Rangers possibly find a top-pairing LD, 2nd pairing LD, and two top-six wingers from within or without having to deal from both of those strengths? Sure, it's possible. Is it likely? No, not really.

Personally, I think having 3 RHD capable of 50+ points is a luxury a team with this many holes can't afford. Can they squeak it out until Fox needs a new deal? Probably, but I can easily see them striking while the iron is hot. Not to mention, if we want to talk about trajectories, Fox at 21 is outpacing DeAngelo at 21 by a considerable margin. Now, if DeAngelo moves to the left full-time that might change things, but I until I start seeing evidence of that, I'm not going to put it at the top of the available options list.

 

[broadwayblue]

There are too many sweet guys in our locker room. Mika, Panarin, Strome, Buch, Kakko, Chytil, Fast. They all love puppies and like to share cute memes of rainbows and bunny rabbits.

We need more *******s. That’s what I like about guys like ADA, Trouba and Lemieux. That swagger they walk around with is infectious.

I’m not saying we NEEDZ MOAR TUFFNESS. I just think we need a few more guys that have that kind of personality. I’d like to see Gorton bring in another player or two that has a screensaver of blood and gore than the Care Bears.

Messier was a complete dick, and I think that helped him. So, that’s what I’m saying. We need more dicks.

We do need more guys in the mold of Lemieux and Lindgren.

 

[Edge]

We need more dicks.

Well there's the board mantra for 2020.

G'night everybody!

 

[gravey9]

I don't get why we'd move DeAngelo at this moment. He will be paid like a #3-4 D which slots in perfectly for the next 2 seasons until Adam Fox's ELC is up. Our RDs in the pipeline are not ready to assume an NHL role just yet. Keane needs time. He's kinda worn down as the season has progressed. Hoping he breaks through the rookie wall after the AHL ASG break. Lundkvist will be in the SHL or AHL this upcoming season. And needs to continue to grow into his body before he pushes for a regular NHL role. Given our depth at RD, there's no reason to force feed him NHL minutes.

The players to move are: Georgiev, Kreider and very possibly Fast. MAYBE Strome in the summer. MAYBE.

Unless we are packaging players to vastly upgrade the top 6 then no other players will likely be moved. And even then, we have to be careful about acquiring forwards that will be 5-6-7 mil on the cap. They have to be the exact right fit. Or else they will make it sooo much harder to finish the rebuild right.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Well there's the board mantra for 2020.

G'night everybody!

Not sure I want to see the avatar for that.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'd move any of our D prospects before moving DeAngelo.

 

[Ola]

I would expect us to more or less maintain what we've seen for the last couple of months --- a little less than .500 hockey. As such, I'm with you, I think a plummet isn't the most likely scenario. I think a few teams might pass us somewhat organically, but I don't think we'll drop like a stone past them.



And if that's the case, I could see them making a move or two to get over the hump. Maybe not a big-time transaction, but I could see them moving a second rounder and a B prospect to bring a guy in.

I wouldn’t at all be surprised if we went 8-2 the last 10 despite having nothing to play for or something annoying like that...