Speculation: Roster building thread XXIV:

[Thirty One]

Bergeron has 18 penalty minutes. Strome has 19 minor penalties.

Yeah, only one more.

 

[mas0764]

Yes that's what I called out. Young team growing pains and lack of depth. And that's not a bad thing as this is a development year and still in a rebuild.

The lack of depth is due to the selloff and overall direction of the team.

We actually have a ton of depth at defense, it's just still growing and maturing. And a ton in the pipeline.

Forward is thin. This year has to be a forward heavy draft. As opposed to last year where we said it should be a forward heavy draft, selected Kakko, and then proceeded to draft 3 more defensemen with our next four picks. Of course I am still high on both Henriksson and Aaltonen. But the organization needs 2-3 more pro-projectable forwards in the mold of Henriksson or better out of this coming draft.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, I don't see what the problem is.

If anything people were all freaking out and worried when we signed Panarin that we would be too good and ruin our rebuild.

If we are only a point better before yet another impending sell off, then that's great news. It means we secured two long term pieces in Trouba and Panarin and didn't compromise the rebuild by spoiling another tank year with a playoff run. We will still be in position to win the lottery, or maintain our own top-10 pick, and hopefully compile some additional assets or first rounders that we could even use as ammo to move up into the top 5 to get a guy like Stutzle or Raymond (assuming Byfield and Lafrieniere are out of reach).

I think the ideal scenario for this season was/is a team that competes, isn't inherently out of a game from before it begins, has its moments and runs, sees progress from its young players, and then gets one more high-powered piece of ammunition moving forward.

So far, that's more or less what we have at this point.

Finish it off at the draft, somewhere in the top 9 picks, and call it a season.

 

[True Blue]

I think he's essentially been what could/should be expected. The difference is that we're watching him day-in and day-out now, as opposed to coveting him from a distance and placing our own projections upon him.

Jacob Trouba is having a very typical season for himself.

Agreed and this is what we were warning people about when the talk of "bonafide top pairing defenseman that one should trade assets for" came about.

Trouba is doing pretty much what he has been doing. Once again, the major issue is here is that people had completely unrealistic expectations of him.

Given that he was not acquired for major assets and what he brings to the table, he has been just fine. And his going rate is what you will see similar defensemen such as him command over next several years.

 

[True Blue]

There was A LOT of talk about being a playoff team this year on this board.

Mostly from people who had let the good vibes from the summer cloud any good sense and thus created pie in the sky scenarios that had almost no chance of happening.

 

[Edge]

Agreed and this is what we were warning people about when the talk of "bonafide top pairing defenseman that one should trade assets for" came about.

Trouba is doing pretty much what he has been doing. Once again, the major issue is here is that people had completely unrealistic expectations of him.

Given that he was not acquired for major assets and what he brings to the table, he has been just fine. And his going rate is what you will see similar defensemen such as him command over next several years.

I feel like we have the start of something at RD that is worth keeping as we move forward.

Yes, we have other areas to work on. But I'd prefer to work on those areas while maintaining what we have at RD, rather than using the position to fix those problems.

I think we have a good mix at that position that has room to get better still, both as it continues to mature, and as the rest of the team, especially LD, comes together.

 

[Alluckks]

The Metro division at this time last year had 45 less points total than they do this year (10 less total games played to be considered)

There are 6 Metro teams ahead of the Rangers; there are only 5 other teams in the entire NHL with more points than the Flyers (the lowest of those 6 aforementioned Metro teams). Conversely, at this time last year there were 7 teams outside of the Metro that were better than the Metro’s 2nd best team.

Almost like context matters. But why use context when you can flaunt a narrative.

 

[broadwayblue]

Barring anything catastrophic, next year is arguably the first time since "the letter" that I will head into the season with the belief that the team should be pushing for the playoffs and including that expectation in how I evaluate the team.

It's also the year that I really start to raise the bar on some of those 2016 draftees.

Yup, I looked at this season as house money. Maybe something surprising happens, but I was certainly not expecting it. As you said, next season the bar is higher. I still don't see our window opening until 2021-2022, but we should be showing improvement and be closer to a playoff spot if they end up on the outside looking in once again.

 

[Alluckks]

I think the ideal scenario for this season was/is a team that competes, isn't inherently out of a game from before it begins, has its moments and runs, sees progress from its young players, and then gets one more high-powered piece of ammunition moving forward.

So far, that's more or less what we have at this point.

Finish it off at the draft, somewhere in the top 9 picks, and call it a season.

The most important thing for development of team culture and maturation right now is just for the team to continue playing competitive games down the stretch.

 

[True Blue]

Barring anything catastrophic, next year is arguably the first time since "the letter" that I will head into the season with the belief that the team should be pushing for the playoffs and including that expectation in how I evaluate the team.

I agree in general. Though recently I have started to ponder how much we should expect in reality. Let's say that only Kreider is traded. I think that big game UFA signings are done for now. And I believe it is unrealistic that some of the younger guys can step up and fill that void as soon as next year. Which leaves trading for a young and promising wing, which will probably be one of the targets with whomever they move. That still leaves a pretty big gap to fill on your top 6.

We expect the team to be better because the young players will improve. But will they improve enough to cover a pretty big gap on the top 2 lines? That I have doubts about. I could be wrong here and may not be thinking about something.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

What's the point of this, Bergeron has one more pim than him, when you back check and battle you get penalties.

No point. Just an observation.

 

[True Blue]

I feel like we have the start of something at RD that is worth keeping as we move forward.

Completely agree here. I think that the RD, in theory, should be ok going forward and will need to gel more. I also think that Lindgren will man one of the spots on the LD. Which leaves the other two spots that are needed to round out the future top 6 better. That includes finding at a minimum a Lindgren clone to glue to DeAngelo.

I realize that this will disappoint some as it means that some of the prospects on RD that people are drooling about will probably be trade bait to shore up other places in the line up.

 

[broadwayblue]

I agree in general. Though recently I have started to ponder how much we should expect in reality. Let's say that only Kreider is traded. I think that big game UFA signings are done for now. And I believe it is unrealistic that some of the younger guys can step up and fill that void as soon as next year. Which leaves trading for a young and promising wing, which will probably be one of the targets with whomever they move. That still leaves a pretty big gap to fill on your top 6.

We expect the team to be better because the young players will improve. But will they improve enough to cover a pretty big gap on the top 2 lines? That I have doubts about. I could be wrong here and may not be thinking about something.

I think the team will look quite a bit differently next season. We've been hearing consistently for a while about how the organization isn't looking to be sellers at the deadline, at least in the traditional way. We may move a number of players, but they won't be for a boat load of picks and prospects. It really does sound like they are looking to move guys for young, current NHL players who are cost controlled and can fill a role on our team both now and in the future. Not saying we won't net any picks...but I expect more hockey trades than trades for futures.

 

[Off Sides]

If I am expecting hockey trades, I am thinking of the summer.

At deadline there are usually just buyers and sellers, the buyers do not want to pay in assets other than picks/lower level prospects/players

In the summer all sort of stuff happens. Potential even more this time around where there is potentially not all that much cap growth and an expansion draft on the horizon.

 

[Edge]

I agree in general. Though recently I have started to ponder how much we should expect in reality. Let's say that only Kreider is traded. I think that big game UFA signings are done for now. And I believe it is unrealistic that some of the younger guys can step up and fill that void as soon as next year. Which leaves trading for a young and promising wing, which will probably be one of the targets with whomever they move. That still leaves a pretty big gap to fill on your top 6.

We expect the team to be better because the young players will improve. But will they improve enough to cover a pretty big gap on the top 2 lines? That I have doubts about. I could be wrong here and may not be thinking about something.

I think it really depends on what they do with their resources and/or what trades are available or not available.

I'd expect more depth signings and moves, but I also think the team wouldn't hesitate to package assets if the right players came along.

Additionally, a lot depends on Chytil's next steps, Kakko's progress and whether Kravtsov can make the jump next season. Then you have the possibility of another high pick who may or may not be in play for next season.

But there's way too many moving parts right now.

 

[True Blue]

I think the team will look quite a bit differently next season. We've been hearing consistently for a while about how the organization isn't looking to be sellers at the deadline, at least in the traditional way. We may move a number of players, but they won't be for a boat load of picks and prospects. It really does sound like they are looking to move guys for young, current NHL players who are cost controlled and can fill a role on our team both now and in the future. Not saying we won't net any picks...but I expect more hockey trades than trades for futures.

I do not disagree. I am just remarking on the rather large hole that will be left on the top lines even if Kreider is the only player that is moved.

 

[Edge]

We actually have a ton of depth at defense, it's just still growing and maturing. And a ton in the pipeline.

Forward is thin. This year has to be a forward heavy draft. As opposed to last year where we said it should be a forward heavy draft, selected Kakko, and then proceeded to draft 3 more defensemen with our next four picks. Of course I am still high on both Henriksson and Aaltonen. But the organization needs 2-3 more pro-projectable forwards in the mold of Henriksson or better out of this coming draft.

What's almost lost in all of this is how young the RD is still.

At the start of next season, Trouba will still only be 26, ADA 24, and Fox 22.

This trio, as a whole, isn't a finished product by any stretch.

 

[True Blue]

I think it really depends on what they do with their resources and/or what trades are available or not available.

I'd expect more depth signings and moves, but I also think the team wouldn't hesitate to package assets if the right players came along.

Additionally, a lot depends on Chytil's next steps, Kakko's progress and whether Kravtsov can make the jump next season. Then you have the possibility of another high pick who may or may not be in play for next season.

But there's way too many moving parts right now.

Sure, I get it. I guess my point is that Kravstov making the jump, Chytil improving, Kakko improving may not be enough to 1) have the organic improvement that we are all expecting for next year AND 2) also compensate for the production lost from Kreider.

There are multiple reasons that we are all expecting the team to be better next year. Among them is the natural progression of the youngsters. But that natural progression, at least in my view, will probably not also be enough to replace what they are loosing. As you said, that will probably need to come from a trade. For what? I have no idea. We have bantered about a young and coming power forward who can supplement the skill level of this team and also produce. But will that be enough? Not sure. But as you said, there are just too many moving pieces right now. We will have much more clarity once the TDL has come and gone

 

[Trxjw]

He has a good motor and some evident talent that he hasn’t capitalized on. But there’s nothing particularly specific about him that makes him an attractive target. I can’t point to size, speed, physicality, a plus shot, two way acumen, or anything specific that makes Jost’s game feel like it gets you excited. I more just hope that if we acquired him he could kind of put together some sort of consistency as a 40+ point guy. And I didn’t mean for that to be isolated to you, you’re always an informed poster with valid opinions. If you’re higher on Jost than I am there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s only my individual opinion that it’s his draft pedigree that has most people interested. I don’t think it’s impossible for him to, for instance, switch to the wing and mesh in a new environment. It’s just my opinion that he’ll be a sort of nondescript borderline top sixer who isn’t well suited to a bottom six role.

Which is all totally fine. You're completely entitled to have a different take on Jost. All things considered I actually like Gauthier a tad bit more myself as well. I just felt that assuming his draft status was what was inflating his stock was unfair to people, like myself, who do see value in Jost. I think there's something to be said for plus traits in a player, but not every player can apply those traits to NHL level hockey nor has every player had an opportunity to do so. So while Jost has struggled to adapt, I think it's a little unfair to use that to drive his value down while pumping up a player who hasn't shown anything in the NHL himself. Now, if you're not impressed with his set of tools, then I can totally appreciate that take and I understand it as well.

In an ideal-ish world, I'd like to add both guys. I think they're different players but both potentially fill gaps in our lineup that will be created when guys like Kreider and perhaps Strome move on.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

What's almost lost in all of this is how young the RD is still.

At the start of next season, Trouba will still only be 26, ADA 24, and Fox 22.

This trio, as a whole, isn't a finished product by any stretch.

I'm not getting rid of any of those 3 until someone (Keane, Lundkvist, etc.) is absolutely tearing down the door to the league. Earliest that happens is probably this time next year. There's no rush.

 

[Avery16]

What's almost lost in all of this is how young the RD is still.

At the start of next season, Trouba will still only be 26, ADA 24, and Fox 22.

This trio, as a whole, isn't a finished product by any stretch.

I hope we get to see ADA as a finished product...on this team.

 

[mas0764]

The NHL standings right now are so weird to look at.

Because of the schedule, we currently sit 10th in the draft, but actually have one less point than the team picking 7th.

With those four positions comes almost double the odds of picking in the top 3.

A sell off should hopefully make getting into the top 6 attainable for us.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

What's the point of this, Bergeron has one more pim than him, when you back check and battle you get penalties.

Bergeron has 18 PIMs, Strome has 40 PIMs...

So what's Strome's excuse? Back checking CERTAINLY isn't it. Guy is basically allergic to back checking hard.

 

[bl02]

I know it’s unfair but VK has lots of pressure to become a top 6 guy or I should say the Rangers organization has pressure that he becomes something. You just can’t have two consecutive top 10 busts in a rebuild. Also am I alone in saying (unless we win the lottery) I don’t really feel comfortable with Clark picking let’s say at pick number 7/8/9?

 

[broadwayblue]

A sell off should hopefully make getting into the top 6 attainable for us.

Agreed. But again, I'm not entirely sure we will see a selloff this time around. At least that's not what the organization is telling us.