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Speculation: Roster building thread XXIII: Heading into doldrum days and All Star break

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Isles play tough games this weekend, I thought, so it's incredibly important for this team to heal up, rest, and get ready for Sunday. Torts has that young team playing extremely well, and Merzlikins has been fantastic. Touching quick on Kreider--I just don't see him in the Lucic/Loui Erikkson mold, even JVR. His body is in premier shape, and he is a physical freak. Who at that size skates like that? I bet he loves it here so much he'd take a sliiiight discount, hence why I said $6.5M per. It's worth a shot. I'd probably do $7M per, but I'd do five years max.
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NYRangers0723 said:
not really. He didn’t give a real indication one way or another. Look I had no problem with last deadline deals. I’m not totally against trading Kreider but I think we need to be absolutely positively sure because he is gonna be a big loss whether some want to admit it or not
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Of course he's not going to bluntly say they are selling, it hurts potential leverage. Read between the lines

Is Kreider going to be a loss short term, yeah. Do I think it's going to be the end of the world as some make it out to be, no. Will the Rangers be better off not being hampered with that massive contract long term? More likely than not

Pawnee Rangers said:
Not having the stomach for the rebuild, that been going on for more than two years, isn't accurate. It's about wanting to keep a player who some feel can be part of the next run.
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The team is still rebuilding, giving an aging power forward a massive deal in a time when they shouldn't be handing out long term deals isn't exactly a "rebuilding" move. It's a move for people who are thinking short term and not long term
 
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bobbop said:
The advantage the Rangers have with Buchnevich is that he can be moved anywhere in the league. No no trades, no control concerns. I think he is marketable and depending on where Kreider nets out, could be the logical guy to move.
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I agree with this, and I think he's going to have solid value. I think the preference is for that solid value to resemble a player who, though different, could essentially slide into a similar slot in the lineup.

I also think Skjei has a lot higher value around the league that he often gets credits. Like Buchnevich, I can see a Rangers team that is willing to use that value in the right move.

I think both guys are very likely trade chips --- it comes down to how those chips are used.
 
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Edge said:
Without jumping into the conversation you're having with Kupo, and more to give a frame of reference to the broader discussion, I think the market rate is probably going to be pretty darn close to $50M.

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See, I don’t think people are doing the math. He’s going to get at least $7 million per year. Even at 5 years he’s at 35 million. Jack it up one more million and you’re at $40 million already. My gosh, salaries keep going up and Panarin is getting north of $11 million. Do they think Kreider is going to sign for like $5 million? And then sign Tony D, etc. oh yeah, no cap issues right?
 
Edge said:
I agree with this, and I think he's going to have solid value. I think the preference is for that solid value to resemble a player who, though different, could essentially slide into a similar slot in the lineup.

I also think Skjei has a lot higher value around the league that he often gets credits. Like Buchnevich, I can see a Rangers team that is willing to use that value in the right move.

I think both guys are very likely trade chips --- it comes down to how those chips are used.
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So essentially moving Buch for a Brendan Lemeuix type but with more offensive upside

Or at least that's what I'm gathering
 
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Oscar Lindberg said:
Of course he's not going to bluntly say they are selling, it hurts potential leverage. Read between the lines

Is Kreider going to be a loss short term, yeah. Do I think it's going to be the end of the world as some make it out to be, no. Will the Rangers be better off not being hampered with that massive contract long term? More likely than not


The team is still rebuilding, giving an aging power forward a massive deal in a time when they shouldn't be handing out long term deals isn't exactly a "rebuilding" move. It's a move for people who are thinking short term and not long term
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agree to disagree
 
This, by the way, is the gist of Mirtle's story:

"But what’s clear is Toronto has inquired multiple times this season about New York Rangers goaltender Alexandar Georgiev, a 23-year-old who has quickly gone from undrafted free agent in 2017 to a promising prospect at the NHL level.

To date, the Rangers’ asking price has been high. They want a quality young player who can play now, not a pick or a prospect, for the young Russian netminder.

The result is a bit of a stalemate, as the Leafs (and other suitors) haven’t been willing to meet that price for a goalie who has only started 60 NHL games."

Mirtle: The Maple Leafs are interested in Alexandar...

One way of interpreting what Mirtle says is that we don't necessarily need a roster player, but just a young player who could play now. So, a prospect who is in the AHL or something and waiting for an opening but who is maybe blocked. Just a possibility.
 
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Edge said:
Without jumping into the conversation you're having with Kupo, and more to give a frame of reference to the broader discussion, I think the market rate is probably going to be pretty darn close to $50M.

I could be way wrong on this, but I really think the market is going to be 7x7 ($49 million). I'd probably even say that the player being described in these threads, sounds like a 7x7 player.

That's the number that I think becomes the sticking point. I think most everyone would be significantly more okay with 6x5. Slightly less at 6x6 or 7x5, and less increasingly less at 6x7, 7x6, and eventually 7x7. So the debate somewhat hinges on the price point.

I think Kreider's going to ask for the 7x7, if he hasn't already.
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CK has earned it. Zucc earned his 5X6 contract, Hayes earned his 7X7 contract.

After two successful seasons Nylander inked a 6/45 contract. Players want to get paid. I don’t blame CK for wanting what he’s worked for. I just don’t think we’re the team that should reward him to the contract that’ll bite us in the ass in a few years.
 
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Dredger saying Kapanen might not be enough for Georgiev.

I’m going to go ahead and admit I completely misread the perceived value when proposing Bracco for Georgiev straight-up.

However, I am concerned that the Rangers ask might be too high and will put the team in a position similar to the one Talbot produced.
 
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bobbop said:
I find it fascinating how far that the conversation on Kreider has moved from NFW two months ago.
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I'm not sure it really has too much.

The poll indicates a 3-1 to trade vs. keep response.

I think some people legitimately want to keep Kreider, and they have their reasons, and those reasons aren't misguided or ignorant. They have valid points.

But I also think there's probably a lot of people for whom "the fear" is starting to surface. The same fear that surfaces when we stare into the unknown. (I could also argue there are people on the other side who love acquiring prospects and picks, so that's their motivation. I'm not picking on anyone.)

Internally, I feel like they are where they've always been. They like the player, probably wish he was four years younger, and know that saying goodbye will hurt --- regardless of the return.

As for the "having doubts" comments, I suspect that might be part of trade negotiations. Kind of like saying, "I don't have to move this guy to you. Hell, I don't have to move him at all."

So, we'll see.
 
Kovalev27 said:
If Gorton doesn’t think kapanen is enough for Georgiev then the rangers have no interest in actually moving Georgiev
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Not sure I buy that

Sounds to me like the Leafs are using Mirtle to put some public pressure on the Rangers to maybe lower the price, by making Gorton look unreasonable

But I also wouldn't be shocked if the team doesn't want to move him
 
Oscar Lindberg said:
So essentially moving Buch for a Brendan Lemeuix type but with more offensive upside

Or at least that's what I'm gathering
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Potentially, but I think that Lemieux+ type would come with a higher salary as a result of the offense. And keeping in mind that signing Lemieux is going to cost this offseason, so that's what I am talking about when I mention getting younger guys who are approaching their second (or maybe third) contracts.
 
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Kovalev27 said:
If Gorton doesn’t think kapanen is enough for Georgiev then the rangers have no interest in actually moving Georgiev
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lol - honestly, for all the prospects the Rangers have and could move Georgiev, Kreider and Tony D plus anything, they should be able to bring back a Byram Bowen.
 
InTheShift said:
Dredger saying Kapanen might not be enough for Georgiev.

I’m going to go ahead and admit I completely misread the perceived value when proposing Bracco for Georgiev straight-up.

However, I am concerned that the Rangers ask might be too high and will put the team in a position similar to the one Talbot produced.
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When did Dreger mention Kapanen’s name?
 
InTheShift said:
Dredger saying Kapanen might not be enough for Georgiev.

I’m going to go ahead and admit I completely misread the perceived value when proposing Bracco for Georgiev straight-up.

However, I am concerned that the Rangers ask might be too high and will put the team in a position similar to the one Talbot produced.
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Rangers have liked Kapanen going back to McD. If he's on the table, I'm sure they are listening.

Personally, I'm not as high on Kapanen as some, but that's just me.
 
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Kupo said:
Like @Pawnee Rangers mentioned, we can talk about CK or go back to spinning our wheels about Lias or our 3 goalie rotation. :D

What did you get from SS..? I’m getting hungry and feeling sinful!
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So they brought out the ShackMeister again, which is their burger with fried shallots, Shack Sauce, and cheese. I eat like a fatass, so mine was a double, with a side of cheese fries. :laugh: It feels like it's about 25 out right now though so I did convince myself to skip a shake.
 
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