Speculation: Roster building thread XXIII: Heading into doldrum days and All Star break

[Edge]

Minimize the pain then. They're much worse without Kreider than they are without Buch or Skjei. How many defenseman have they drafted the last few years? Move ADA to the left, you still have Hajek and Lindgren developing, you have a ton of kids coming up through the system. You have buckets of defensive prospects, what you don't have are any good forwards prospects outside of Kravtsov, not counting Kakko.

Sorry, I don't see anything in that scenario that makes me visualize a better roster. I see a different roster, but I don't see a roster that is any less capable of giving up the amount of shots and goals than this year's roster. Not without salaries coming back for Buch and Skjei, which is an aspect we have to account for. We're not trading them for prospects/picks.

 

[Edge]

Not surprising, these teams continue to dance around each other --- with different names in the conversation.

Georgiev has been at least suspected to hold interest for Toronto for a while.

 

[RGY]

How much would Athanasiou cost to re-sign this summer? We would be adding salary if the deal is based on Lias Andersson + another prospect.

Athanasiou and Mantha both have RFA status after this season. Those are the type of guys you replace Buchnevich with. Buchnevich in a deal for a younger cost controlled forward or LD, maybe after the season. You then have AA or Mantha who bring different styles to the table than Buch. Athanasiou is crazy fast and isnt afraid to go to the net. Mantha same thing, will go to the net, the dirty areas.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Minimize the pain then. They're much worse without Kreider than they are without Buch or Skjei. How many defenseman have they drafted the last few years? Move ADA to the left, you still have Hajek and Lindgren developing, you have a ton of kids coming up through the system. You have buckets of defensive prospects, what you don't have are any good forwards prospects outside of Kravtsov, not counting Kakko.

And there lies the problem. These kids you speak of are a few years away still. Until our D is solidified, we’re not going to be contenders.

Despite your concerns about our offense, don’t forget the fact that only 6 teams in the league are scoring more goals per game than us.

 

[MetalJaws]

ahh, maybe a in a video game we can do that. Trade him for a ton, resign him for a little and send worthless vets packing,

Kreider will get a 1st and a prospect. Easy.
If he really wants to be a Ranger he'll take a family discount to stick around int he off-season.

Worthless vets are not worthless when you add value to their worthlessness.
Georgiev, picks and Lias have value. So does eating some salary.

Rather have Kreider and ADA in the fold than Lias, Smith, Staal, Buch or Fast. GMJG has work to do.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I think in most scenarios, you're looking at something getting worse, or remaining substandard, over the short term.

Maybe the second line. Maybe the LD. Maybe the bottom six.

In just about every scenarios we've floated - with Kreider, without Kreider, with Skjei, without Skjei, etc., there's a trade-off.

The wild card, although an unlikely scenario, is Lundqvist. What if he waives his NTC with retention? What if he retires? What if hes bought out? Those scenarios free up cap space at various levels that opens up different trade possibilities.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Sorry, I don't see anything in that scenario that makes me visualize a better roster. I see a different roster, but I don't see a roster that is any less capable of giving up the amount of shots and goals than this year's roster. Not without salaries coming back for Buch and Skjei, which is an aspect we have to account for. We're not trading them for prospects/picks.

I like Buch, a lot. But he's got 7 goals and 18 assists playing with two of the teams better offensive players. And he's making 3.5 million. Why do you need a player coming back? With Lemieux ready to return you can easily take picks for Buch and not disrupt the lineup this season and that's just this season.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Kreider (ufa) & Skjei

For

Debrusk & Krug (ufa)?

 

[rangersfansince08]

Julian G. would be quite the coup for Kreider.

 

[nyr2k2]

Send Kreider to whomever for a 1st and prospect then resign him on a team friendly deal in July. If he really wants to be here that is.

Package Smith or Staal with whomever you give Georgiev to. Add a 7th or 6th to sweeten the pot. Or, add Lias to the deal and take a pick back.

If cap is tight with trying to sign Lemieux, ADA, Strome and Krieder then I believe Buch and fast to be the men out. Send em away.

A lot of teams that would conceivably want Georgiev probably don't have the space to take Smith, and we can't just move Staal with his NMC.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And there lies the problem. These kids you speak of are a few years away still. Until our D is solidified, we’re not going to be contenders.

Despite your concerns about our offense, don’t forget the fact that only 6 teams in the league are scoring more goals per game than us.

First off, take Kreider out the scenario and they aren't in the top 6. Secondly, I expect Fox, ADA, Lindgren and Hajak to keep improving. If I'm making the choice between Skjei and Buch or Kreider. I'm taking Kreider.

 

[Leetch3]

I mean something to consider here, the Rangers could very well prefer to upgrade the LD slot by moving Skjei, and taking on a higher salary there, and moving Buch for a different kind of third line RW.

In both cases, those deals would bring back an NHL-level, and not prospects/picks. Additionally, it would bring back NHL-level salary/salaries.

They could very well prefer using those two assets in that fashion, as opposed to using to free up cash to resign Kreider.

big question is what top LD (in the right age range) might be available? have to think that the type of guy we'd be looking for there as a true upgrade aren't easily found...

 

[RGY]

Our best players today will not be our best players forever. I can’t fathom how you have zero concerns about committing 50M for a 29 year old.

The contract will be fine for the few years - but happens in year 3, 4, 5 and beyond?

You say we have a lot of money coming off the books which is 100% accurate, but you turn a blind eye at the fact that we’re going to have a lot of players that need new contracts.

You know Kupo I don’t think anyone sitting here debating in favor of re-signing Kreider are without concerns. There are certainly concerns, just like there were with Panarin’s deal which will continue to have the TBD tag as we move forward here.

But there has to be an understanding, and i think @haveandare hit it right on the bullseye, is you have to tread carefully with going too deep into the constant rebuild and monetize assets mindset. That in some instances you have to re-sign guys. Guys you think will be important to the roster that you are trying to build to compete in the next 2-3 years. I think Gorton and JD want to be seriously competing in 2 years. And i strongly feel Kreider will be just as effective. And to make him fit, you identify other pieces that you think are redundant or not part of the solution. To me thats Buchnevich and to a degree Skjei.

You have expiring contracts. You have a new TV deal coming. There is risk with anything you decide to do. There is just as much risk in trading for a draft pick that doesn’t pan out, or doesnt come close to their ceiling (Lias), or takes longer to develop when you needed him at a certain point when the window was open, etc., as there is to re-signing Kreider.

To me this just is not black and white. And if Kreider was willing to take a 5 year deal @ $7.25 million then I move other pieces to make him work and not them.

 

[NYSPORTS]

what are these teams thinking if they contact the Rangers?

Honestly?
Hey Rangers, what’s for sale?

A starting goalie, power forward and offensive defenseman

well, we’re interested but don’t want to part ways with much

really? Could see Tampa and Colorado thinking this way

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I like Buch, a lot. But he's got 7 goals and 18 assists playing with two of the teams better offensive players. And he's making 3.5 million. Why do you need a player coming back? With Lemieux ready to return you can easily take picks for Buch and not disrupt the lineup this season and that's just this season.

And Kreider only has 6 more points than Buch despite the surge he’s been on over the last few weeks.

Again, you’re hellbent in our lineup this and next season and that is mind boggling considering we’re in year 2 of our rebuild.

This is why I made the Chess analogy. Look beyond this year and next year.

 

[Edge]

I like Buch, a lot. But he's got 7 goals and 18 assists playing with two of the teams better offensive players. And he's making 3.5 million. Why do you need a player coming back? With Lemieux ready to return you can easily take picks for Buch and not disrupt the lineup this season and that's just this season.

Because I can tell you, with a fair degree of confidence, that the Rangers aren't terribly interested in trading cost-controlled talent in their 20s for picks and prospects.

That's the market for rentals and expiring contracts, but there's really not an appetite to take a guy like Buch and move him for pricks and prospects. That window was last summer, when they saw guys they liked and whom they felt might be able to step in for the 2020-21 campaign. I don't see them taking a similar approach this year, and hoping a guy steps in 2021-22.

Buch, warts and all, has value around the league. I believe the Rangers preference is, and will continue to be, exploring whether they can move Buch for a different kind of third line RW, but one at a similar price point. I think you're second most likely option is them packaging Buch, along with other pieces, and trying to find a second line wing. In the latter scenario, you're looking at what is likely a higher salary. So monetarily, I think your two most likely options are a financial wash, or even slight increase.

 

[RGY]

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

Our best players today will not be our best players forever. I can’t fathom how you have zero concerns about committing 50M for a 29 year old.

The contract will be fine for the few years - but happens in year 3, 4, 5 and beyond?

You say we have a lot of money coming off the books which is 100% accurate, but you turn a blind eye at the fact that we’re going to have a lot of players that need new contracts.

The thing about Kreider though is his net front presence alone should keep him productive well into his 30s. Plus, given his speed, even if he loses a step then he'll be just as fast as everybody else. I'm not saying I'm all for committing big dollars long term, but of all the players on the team he is the one I worry about least being able to produce into his mid 30s and beyond.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Mirtle is carrying some serious water for Toronto in that article

That said I expect Brooks' phone to be ringing at some point with some information so he can write an article about Georgiev and Toronto

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And Kreider only has 6 more points than Buch despite the surge he’s been on over the last few weeks.

Again, you’re hellbent in our lineup this and next season and that is mind boggling considering we’re in year 2 of our rebuild.

This is why I made the Chess analogy. Look beyond this year and next year.

You keep saying this and you're wrong. I don't give a shit about chess. This isn't about this year or next, this about the next 5 years. It's about keeping what works and moving what doesn't. In five years Panarin is 34, Zib is 31, guys get old quick. You keep waiting for this magical window to open. There isn't one. Every season is different. And Buch will never be as good as Kreider, ever.

 

[Edge]

big question is what top LD (in the right age range) might be available? have to think that the type of guy we'd be looking for there as a true upgrade aren't easily found...

And I think that's why there's some...hesitation... internally to either get locked into too many immovable contracts, or why there's been some hesitation to further explore the Nylander talks that they've had off and on for a while.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Also I'd love to have Athanasiou on this team

I mentioned him a few months ago, but he's a target I would be pleased with

 

[FIRE DRURY]

You know Kupo I don’t think anyone sitting here debating in favor of re-signing Kreider are without concerns. There are certainly concerns, just like there were with Panarin’s deal which will continue to have the TBD tag as we move forward here.

But there has to be an understanding, and i think @haveandare hit it right on the bullseye, is you have to tread carefully with going too deep into the constant rebuild and monetize assets mindset. That in some instances you have to re-sign guys. Guys you think will be important to the roster that you are trying to build to compete in the next 2-3 years. I think Gorton and JD want to be seriously competing in 2 years. And i strongly feel Kreider will be just as effective. And to make him fit, you identify other pieces that you think are redundant or not part of the solution. To me thats Buchnevich and to a degree Skjei.

You have expiring contracts. You have a new TV deal coming. There is risk with anything you decide to do. There is just as much risk in trading for a draft pick that doesn’t pan out, or doesnt come close to their ceiling (Lias), or takes longer to develop when you needed him at a certain point when the window was open, etc., as there is to re-signing Kreider.

To me this just is not black and white. And if Kreider was willing to take a 5 year deal @ $7.25 million then I move other pieces to make him work and not them.

A 5 year deal for a 29 year old is a lot easier to swallow than a 7 year deal. Ask yourself though, why would Kreider short change himself by doing that?

Is it possible? Sure. Backstrom signed a 5 year deal to stay in Washington. I simply don’t see CK doing the same, but I could be wrong.

In addition to the term, I also don’t feel comfortable with the price. I don’t see CK as a 7m player.

 

[Edge]

But there has to be an understanding, and i think @haveandare hit it right on the bullseye, is you have to tread carefully with going too deep into the constant rebuild and monetize assets mindset. That in some instances you have to re-sign guys. Guys you think will be important to the roster that you are trying to build to compete in the next 2-3 years. I think Gorton and JD want to be seriously competing in 2 years. And i strongly feel Kreider will be just as effective. And to make him fit, you identify other pieces that you think are redundant or not part of the solution. To me thats Buchnevich and to a degree Skjei.

But we're kind of arguing it both ways at times, no?

We don't want to be in a perpetual rebuild, and yet we're wondering why we can't just move guys like Buch for picks and prospects.

 

[NYRangers0723]

And Kreider only has 6 more points than Buch despite the surge he’s been on over the last few weeks.

Again, you’re hellbent in our lineup this and next season and that is mind boggling considering we’re in year 2 of our rebuild.

This is why I made the Chess analogy. Look beyond this year and next year

.

to be honest I don’t think the rangers FO consider us rebuilding anymore. Once they signed Panarin and Trouba to massive deals I felt like that was them telling us that they want to win now