Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLVIII - “Into the Heartland”

[UAGoalieGuy]

And just reinforces why I was lukewarm on signing Hayes.



I don't know who these guys are talking to, but I've encountered a grand total of zero people who thought a reunion with Hayes was happening and/or had the Rangers in on Karlsson.

At this point, I think anyone whom the Rangers don't flat out say "no" to is going to be considered someone they are "interested" in.

You want to know names the Rangers were/are monitoring? Trouba (obviously), Panarin, Nylander, Marner. They're curious to see how the Tkachuk contract talks go. They're seeing if they can get a high pick and a prospect they like for Kreider. They're seeing how much Buffalo like Vesey, and if that team is interested in an expanded deal. They're checking in with Arizona now that Kessel is supposedly off the market. They're trying to see if there's any last ditch hope to trade Smith or Shatty, even with 50 percent retentions.

There, I just saved some of you about 30 mins of reading multiple articles that aren't even focused on what's actually going on. It's like 1997 all over again.

Edgy Edge I like it! Sick of the BS out there in the media.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

And just reinforces why I was lukewarm on signing Hayes.



I don't know who these guys are talking to, but I've encountered a grand total of zero people who thought a reunion with Hayes was happening and/or had the Rangers in on Karlsson.

At this point, I think anyone whom the Rangers don't flat out say "no" to is going to be considered someone they are "interested" in.

You want to know names the Rangers were/are monitoring? Trouba (obviously), Panarin, Nylander, Marner. They're curious to see how the Tkachuk contract talks go. They're seeing if they can get a high pick and a prospect they like for Kreider. They're seeing how much Buffalo like Vesey, and if that team is interested in an expanded deal. They're checking in with Arizona now that Kessel is supposedly off the market. They're trying to see if there's any last ditch hope to trade Smith or Shatty, even with 50 percent retentions.

There, I just saved some of you about 30 mins of reading multiple articles that aren't even focused on what's actually going on. It's like 1997 all over again.

The Karlsson and Hayes stuff feels like the work of agents using other teams to pump up their clients

 

[TheBPA]

And just reinforces why I was lukewarm on signing Hayes.



I don't know who these guys are talking to, but I've encountered a grand total of zero people who thought a reunion with Hayes was happening and/or had the Rangers in on Karlsson.

At this point, I think anyone whom the Rangers don't flat out say "no" to is going to be considered someone they are "interested" in.

You want to know names the Rangers were/are monitoring? Trouba (obviously), Panarin, Nylander, Marner. They're curious to see how the Tkachuk contract talks go. They're seeing if they can get a high pick and a prospect they like for Kreider. They're seeing how much Buffalo like Vesey, and if that team is interested in an expanded deal. They're checking in with Arizona now that Kessel is supposedly off the market. They're trying to see if there's any last ditch hope to trade Smith or Shatty, even with 50 percent retentions.

There, I just saved some of you about 30 mins of reading multiple articles that aren't even focused on what's actually going on. It's like 1997 all over again.

All of those things make logical sense. Some of these national writers just instinctively throw the Rangers’ name out there for every big time UFA, RFA and/or player available in a trade, when Gorton hasn’t given any indication that he’s interested in those types of moves unless it fits in with his rebuilding plan.

 

[Ola]

NYR have always been mentioned in relation to Karlsson here in Sweden too, Tampa and NYR.

Karlsson told Swedish media after the signing that he never had any intentions to sign anywhere else than with SJ. He is a bit foxy, negotiated well keeping the door open for others...

 

[eco's bones]

And just reinforces why I was lukewarm on signing Hayes.



I don't know who these guys are talking to, but I've encountered a grand total of zero people who thought a reunion with Hayes was happening and/or had the Rangers in on Karlsson.

At this point, I think anyone whom the Rangers don't flat out say "no" to is going to be considered someone they are "interested" in.

You want to know names the Rangers were/are monitoring? Trouba (obviously), Panarin, Nylander, Marner. They're curious to see how the Tkachuk contract talks go. They're seeing if they can get a high pick and a prospect they like for Kreider. They're seeing how much Buffalo like Vesey, and if that team is interested in an expanded deal. They're checking in with Arizona now that Kessel is supposedly off the market. They're trying to see if there's any last ditch hope to trade Smith or Shatty, even with 50 percent retentions.

There, I just saved some of you about 30 mins of reading multiple articles that aren't even focused on what's actually going on. It's like 1997 all over again.

I think Marner and Tkachuk are out of reach. Each would require multiple major assets--kind of like say goodbye to Shesterkin, Kravtsov +. Then you have the issue of signing them. I love both Tkachuk's. Not just great players but horrible to play against.

Panarin or a deal around Nylander are possibilities. I think we would do better than at least some people expect moving Vesey to Buffalo. Other teams have different ways of valuing players. Vesey comes in to play on his buddy Eichel's wing and all of a sudden he's a 25 goal 55/60 point player--or at least that's what the Buffalo GM might be thinking.

If we can find a new home for Shattenkirk we need to move on from him. If we can't move Smith I'd buy him out. Otherwise he's either going to block somebody younger and better or if we send him to the minors close to $3.5 of his cap is still going to be on our books. If we have other moves in mind that's a problem--we'll have a lot more room a couple years from now.

 

[Dijock94]

And just reinforces why I was lukewarm on signing Hayes.



I don't know who these guys are talking to, but I've encountered a grand total of zero people who thought a reunion with Hayes was happening and/or had the Rangers in on Karlsson.

At this point, I think anyone whom the Rangers don't flat out say "no" to is going to be considered someone they are "interested" in.

You want to know names the Rangers were/are monitoring? Trouba (obviously), Panarin, Nylander, Marner. They're curious to see how the Tkachuk contract talks go. They're seeing if they can get a high pick and a prospect they like for Kreider. They're seeing how much Buffalo like Vesey, and if that team is interested in an expanded deal. They're checking in with Arizona now that Kessel is supposedly off the market. They're trying to see if there's any last ditch hope to trade Smith or Shatty, even with 50 percent retentions.

There, I just saved some of you about 30 mins of reading multiple articles that aren't even focused on what's actually going on. It's like 1997 all over again.

When you say last ditch effort to trade Shattenkirk and Smith, if they fail to move them are we getting stuck with more buyouts?

Also one side note I just read an interview with Shattenkirk and he mentioned working out with Adam Fox at Prentiss, he looked like he had lost a significant amount of weight just in his face alone in the attached photo.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Really thinking we might be able to rake TOR over the coals in a Nylander trade.

Kreider + warm AHL body
for
Nylander + Brown

TOR saves about $4.4M on the cap this season, without downgrading too much from Nylander to Kreider. The get rid of Brown's contract, freeing up a roster spot for a vet min contract or ELC. Marleau is off the cap next offseason, so maybe they can re-sign Kreider if they like him.

Or maybe something with TBL...

warm bodies + TBL 2nd
for
Callahan + Volkov/Raddysh + TBL 1st

 

[Ola]

I am getting a bit excited about the market for Kreider. Its a bit odd since I felt that it was natural that Winnipeg didn't get much for Trouba, one difference is maybe that Kreider could consider more locations.

I am a bit hooked on Newhook at the moment. That speedy playmaking type is just not something we have at all in the system.

 

[Edge]

Edgy Edge I like it! Sick of the BS out there in the media.

That's one of the reasons I started doing this back in the day. The amount of misinformation and flat out nonsense was insane. Not just with stuff concerning the big club, but reports on junior players, etc.

The Karlsson and Hayes stuff feels like the work of agents using other teams to pump up their clients

Totally. And the fact is, these guys know that and should know better. Now, in their defense, one of the advantages I have is that I'm not doing this for a living. I'm not on the clock to produce content or topics where none exist. I can go a week or a month and say, "nothing doing" and no one is going to get on my ass. But still, it's reached the point where the Ranger insights are beyond silly.

All of those things make logical sense. Some of these national writers just instinctively throw the Rangers’ name out there for every big time UFA, RFA and/or player available in a trade, when Gorton hasn’t given any indication that he’s interested in those types of moves unless it fits in with his rebuilding plan.

Sometimes they cling to a kernel of truth and turn it into a story. Rangers were always monitoring Trouba. They weren't going to chase the price into insane territory. The Rangers like Hayes, but they weren't keen on going high and long with him, or giving a movement clause. The Rangers monitored Karlsson, but he wasn't a guy that they viewed as a must have. In fact, he wasn't even the top RHD they've been keeping tabs on. They just traded for one, and we just hired a president who is familiar with the other.

The Rangers will monitor 80 percent of the situations in the league, because most of those deals, at the right price and at the right time, have value to them. But these guys need to stop acting like the Rangers are heroin addicts trying to score their next fix.

 

[LORDE]

And just reinforces why I was lukewarm on signing Hayes.



I don't know who these guys are talking to, but I've encountered a grand total of zero people who thought a reunion with Hayes was happening and/or had the Rangers in on Karlsson.

At this point, I think anyone whom the Rangers don't flat out say "no" to is going to be considered someone they are "interested" in.

You want to know names the Rangers were/are monitoring? Trouba (obviously), Panarin, Nylander, Marner. They're curious to see how the Tkachuk contract talks go. They're seeing if they can get a high pick and a prospect they like for Kreider. They're seeing how much Buffalo like Vesey, and if that team is interested in an expanded deal. They're checking in with Arizona now that Kessel is supposedly off the market. They're trying to see if there's any last ditch hope to trade Smith or Shatty, even with 50 percent retentions.

There, I just saved some of you about 30 mins of reading multiple articles that aren't even focused on what's actually going on. It's like 1997 all over again.

Somehow, oddly enough... ALL of this actually makes sense.

Unlike, a Karlsson who is too old and expensive or a massive offer sheet where we go back to losing 4 1st rd picks. Even if we ‘could’ backfill them by other trades.

Would make much more sense to trade Kreider and select our own C this year and/or wait to make our selection next yr

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Sometimes they cling to a kernel of truth and turn it into a story. Rangers were always monitoring Trouba. They weren't going to chase the price into insane territory. The Rangers like Hayes, but they weren't keen on going high and long with him, or giving a movement clause. The Rangers monitored Karlsson, but he wasn't a guy that they viewed as a must have. In fact, he wasn't even the top RHD they've been keeping tabs on. They just traded for one, and we just hired a president who is familiar with the other.

May I ask who this player is?

 

[Edge]

When you say last ditch effort to trade Shattenkirk and Smith, if they fail to move them are we getting stuck with more buyouts?

Also one side note I just read an interview with Shattenkirk and he mentioned working out with Adam Fox at Prentiss, he looked like he had lost a significant amount of weight just in his face alone in the attached photo.

Thus far, the word is that the Rangers have found no takers for Smith or Shatty. Not even at 50% retention. That's why I don't want to debate all these proposals where Shattenkirk is included as some kind of "value added" proposition.

The Rangers are, for the most part, trying to see if there is a forward or similar contract they can flip for either Smith or Shatty. Barring any unforeseen developments, that's the only way those guys are getting traded. Of course now that I've typed that here, some GM will have a panic attack and agree to take one of them in an expanded deal. But, as of right now, I don't see that on the horizon.

Concerning buyouts, both are possible. If I had to guess, I think Shattenkirk is higher probability.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

What do you mean the cap would be set at 81.5m for ‘two years’?

Has the cap ever not risen in a calendar year?

There has been numerous speculation among pundits that the NHL and the NHLPA will agree to a flat cap for the next two years until the new TV deal is set in place, in order to ease the escrow burden on players.

 

[Ghost of jas]

In what way? Hayes was always getting 7 million. Just as Kreider is going to get 7+ million. That's what second line center gets. Duchene is going to get 9+ and always was. Panarin is going to get 11+ and always was.

I really think people have a very poor understanding in general of where the cap stands today. We should really be talking in percentages.

We were debating whether or not to re-sign him for $6 million per at six years when he had yet to reach 50 points in his career. The numbers being thrown around regarding Duchene are $10 million plus, which Dreger pretty much confirmed, and likely in no doubt due to this deal.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

That's one of the reasons I started doing this back in the day. The amount of misinformation and flat out nonsense was insane. Not just with stuff concerning the big club, but reports on junior players, etc.



Totally. And the fact is, these guys know that and should know better. Now, in their defense, one of the advantages I have is that I'm not doing this for a living. I'm not on the clock to produce content or topics where none exist. I can go a week or a month and say, "nothing doing" and no one is going to get on my ass. But still, it's reached the point where the Ranger insights are beyond silly.



Sometimes they cling to a kernel of truth and turn it into a story. Rangers were always monitoring Trouba. They weren't going to chase the price into insane territory. The Rangers like Hayes, but they weren't keen on going high and long with him, or giving a movement clause. The Rangers monitored Karlsson, but he wasn't a guy that they viewed as a must have. In fact, he wasn't even the top RHD they've been keeping tabs on. They just traded for one, and we just hired a president who is familiar with the other.

The Rangers will monitor 80 percent of the situations in the league, because most of those deals, at the right price and at the right time, have value to them. But these guys need to stop acting like the Rangers are heroin addicts trying to score their next fix.

It really feels like the Rangers are the only team that doesn’t ever get the caveat of ‘these GMs make calls and talk about everyone on the roster’ from the insiders

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

May I ask who this player is?

Seth Jones would be my guess

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

May I ask who this player is?

My first thought is Seth Jones

 

[Edge]

May I ask who this player is?

Jones.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

My first thought is Seth Jones

Adam Clendening

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Jones.

Wow. For trade or for down the line purposes?

 

[Leetch3]

May I ask who this player is?

seems pretty clear that is Seth Jones

 

[Edge]

I am getting a bit excited about the market for Kreider. Its a bit odd since I felt that it was natural that Winnipeg didn't get much for Trouba, one difference is maybe that Kreider could consider more locations.

I am a bit hooked on Newhook at the moment. That speedy playmaking type is just not something we have at all in the system.

I have Newhook 8th and right in the mix with the centers that are higher on a lot of lists.

If you're looking for the guy most likely to fall into that sweet spot between upside and value, he's a prime candidate.

Having said that, he's my sleeper for a team like Edmonton.

 

[Dijock94]

Thus far, the word is that the Rangers have found no takers for Smith or Shatty. Not even at 50% retention. That's why I don't want to debate all these proposals where Shattenkirk is included as some kind of "value added" proposition.

The Rangers are, for the most part, trying to see if there is a forward or similar contract they can flip for either Smith or Shatty. Barring any unforeseen developments, that's the only way those guys are getting traded. Of course now that I've typed that here, some GM will have a panic attack and agree to take one of them in an expanded deal. But, as of right now, I don't see that on the horizon.

Concerning buyouts, both are possible. If I had to guess, I think Shattenkirk is higher probability.

I hope it works out trying to move them, I’m cringing at the thought of compounding multiple buyouts on top of Girardis.

 

[mas0764]

I think Marner and Tkachuk are out of reach. Each would require multiple major assets--kind of like say goodbye to Shesterkin, Kravtsov +. Then you have the issue of signing them. I love both Tkachuk's. Not just great players but horrible to play against.

Panarin or a deal around Nylander are possibilities. I think we would do better than at least some people expect moving Vesey to Buffalo. Other teams have different ways of valuing players. Vesey comes in to play on his buddy Eichel's wing and all of a sudden he's a 25 goal 55/60 point player--or at least that's what the Buffalo GM might be thinking.

If we can find a new home for Shattenkirk we need to move on from him. If we can't move Smith I'd buy him out. Otherwise he's either going to block somebody younger and better or if we send him to the minors close to $3.5 of his cap is still going to be on our books. If we have other moves in mind that's a problem--we'll have a lot more room a couple years from now.

I wonder if the deal around Buffalo's 7th pick might include Vesey, Kreider, and Georgiev.

 

[Edge]

Wow. For trade or for down the line purposes?

With some of these guys, be it Jones, Tkachuk, etc., they monitor how contracts talks go --- length, terms, etc. Maybe there isn't an opportunity today, but maybe something changes in a year or two.

Gorton and company are thinking aren't thinking about 2020, they're thinking about the 2020s.