Speculation: Roster Building Thread VII (2019/2020)

[GoAwayPanarin]

Maybe, maybe not. But it better work with what they already have here and in the pipeline. Because even drafting a stud D in 2020, he's going to be a long way off.

there are d who get drafted and are very good in this league within 2 years.

they have a shot load of assets. If they have a need, they will have the ammunition to trade for it.

 

[Tawnos]

Still not seeing any good math showing that we could have Kreider here next season at a 7 mil cap hit and make it work, whilst keeping Lemieux and DeAngelo, without making Henrik or Staal mysteriously vanish without retention. The math just doesn't add up.

The lineup below leaves us with $1.5m on an $83.5m cap. I depends on how much we can get Georgiev under contract for... or maybe we trade him.

Panarin $11,642,857	Zibanejad $5,350,000	Buchnevich $3,250,000
Kreider $7,000,000	Chytil $894,166	Kakko $925,000
Lemieux $2,250,000	Andersson $894,166	Kravtsov $925,000
Smith $4,350,000	Howden $863,333	Gettinger $730,000
Elmer $809,166

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Staal $5,700,000	Trouba $8,000,000	Lundqvist $8,500,000
Skjei $5,250,000	Deangelo $3,500,000	Shesterkin $925,000
Hájek $833,333	Fox $925,000
Rykov $925,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Buyouts

• Kevin Shattenkirk: $6,083,333
• Dan Girardi: $1,111,111
• Ryan Spooner: $300,000

(Gettinger and Elmer are placeholders)

 

[Gardner McKay]

Plenty of people have said he has skill with no proof whatsoever. Where were you then to ask them to prove it? It's just my opinion and one that others share. But what does he excel at? Skating? no. Monster,accurate shot? no Stretch passes? no carrying through the neutral zone? nope Why hasn't he done those things if he has high end skill.

That is an interesting point considering you have only been around since Tuesday.

 

[Tawnos]

Maybe, maybe not. But it better work with what they already have here and in the pipeline. Because even drafting a stud D in 2020, he's going to be a long way off.

Likely, that's the case. I'm pretty comfortable with the D pipeline we have, but it's a few years away from being good.

 

[rangersfansince08]

That is an interesting point considering you have only been around since Tuesday.

Does that mean I only saw this forum since Tuesday? I've been reading it for months as well as posting on blueshirtbanter , the rangers reddit and bigblueinteractive about the Rangers.

 

[Leetch3]

I think the overall defense coming together is going to take longer than some believe.

We talk about young forwards and giving them time, but we also have a lot of young defenseman --- and they tend to take a bit longer to find their stride.

If Miller makes the team next season, you're looking at a defense with potentially 4 members who are 24 or younger, including 3 members with less than 100 games of experience. That's a really young corps, even with Trouba and Skjei.

The defensive timeline is a subject we don't really focus on around here.

I think the ideal scenario for the blueline is to have a couple kids establish themselves over the next 2 years as contracts expire...than 20-21 you've got the foundation in place to add kids like miller to round things out. and that was one of the big risk of signing panarin, you could 'waste' the first 2-3 years of his contract waiting for the blueline to be good enough...

 

[B17 Apricots]

Plenty of people have said he has skill with no proof whatsoever. Where were you then to ask them to prove it? It's just my opinion and one that others share. But what does he excel at? Skating? no. Monster,accurate shot? no Stretch passes? no carrying through the neutral zone? nope Why hasn't he done those things if he has high end skill.

It's the same things that made Backlund, Horvat and Stepan great players... No elite shot, no elite skating, no crazy stick handling, just high hockey iq, great work ethic, good vision and soft hands....

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Likely, that's the case. I'm pretty comfortable with the D pipeline we have, but it's a few years away from being good.

My thinking is, there's no perfect team. Tampa were world beaters last year and got bounced in the first round. They all have warts, to some degree. I don't think there will ever be a time when we're like, ok, all of our prospects are ready and we're golden at every position. If you wait for the D to fully bake then guys like Panarin and Zib are all that much older. I'd like to see them keep and build upon the strengths they already have. If we could have a kick ass top 6 for the next five years, they should try to make that work, within reason. Which will also take pressure off a youngish defensive group. Take Kreider out and that's another guy they spend the next five years trying to replace. Out of all the kids, how many are really going to get that huge payday in two-three years? Kakko. That's probably it. The rest will get bridged.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The lineup below leaves us with $1.5m on an $83.5m cap. I depends on how much we can get Georgiev under contract for... or maybe we trade him.

Panarin $11,642,857	Zibanejad $5,350,000	Buchnevich $3,250,000
Kreider $7,000,000	Chytil $894,166	Kakko $925,000
Lemieux $2,250,000	Andersson $894,166	Kravtsov $925,000
Smith $4,350,000	Howden $863,333	Gettinger $730,000
Elmer $809,166

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Staal $5,700,000	Trouba $8,000,000	Lundqvist $8,500,000
Skjei $5,250,000	Deangelo $3,500,000	Shesterkin $925,000
Hájek $833,333	Fox $925,000
Rykov $925,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Buyouts

• Kevin Shattenkirk: $6,083,333
• Dan Girardi: $1,111,111
• Ryan Spooner: $300,000

(Gettinger and Elmer are placeholders)

The guy to move is Buch. He's just a placeholder for Kakko and then Kravtsov takes that spot on the 2nd line. I think you could get a lot for Buch. And he's kind of redundant with Kakko and Kravtsov here.

 

[Tawnos]

My thinking is, there's no perfect team. Tampa were world beaters last year and got bounced in the first round. They all have warts, to some degree. I don't think there will ever be a time when we're like, ok, all of our prospects are ready and we're golden at every position. If you wait for the D to fully bake then guys like Panarin and Zib are all that much older. I'd like to see them keep and build upon the strengths they already have. If we could have a kick ass top 6 for the next five years, they should try to make that work, within reason. Which will also take pressure off a youngish defensive group. Take Kreider out and that's another guy they spend the next five years trying to replace. Out of all the kids, how many are really going to get that huge payday in two-three years? Kakko. That's probably it. The rest will get bridged.

Yeah, every team is flawed.

Literally my only thing about Kreider is not signing him for more than 4-5 years. Otherwise, I have no problem keeping him around. It could happen. It could also depend highly on what offer we see for him towards the deadline. I mean, if we see a prospect like Suzuki (comparing to the Pacioretty trade) being offered, then you have to assess it. Such a trade probably involves a Kreider extension, but still.

 

[Tawnos]

The guy to move is Buch. He's just a placeholder for Kakko and then Kravtsov takes that spot on the 2nd line. I think you could get a lot for Buch. And he's kind of redundant with Kakko and Kravtsov here.

I think the thing to do on that roster, if you need to add space, is to buyout one of Staal or Smith. You're going to save $2m or $1.5m on the cap next year and the 2nd year hit is ~$1m or ~$800k.

 

[Fitzy]

The lineup below leaves us with $1.5m on an $83.5m cap. I depends on how much we can get Georgiev under contract for... or maybe we trade him.

Panarin $11,642,857	Zibanejad $5,350,000	Buchnevich $3,250,000
Kreider $7,000,000	Chytil $894,166	Kakko $925,000
Lemieux $2,250,000	Andersson $894,166	Kravtsov $925,000
Smith $4,350,000	Howden $863,333	Gettinger $730,000
Elmer $809,166

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Staal $5,700,000	Trouba $8,000,000	Lundqvist $8,500,000
Skjei $5,250,000	Deangelo $3,500,000	Shesterkin $925,000
Hájek $833,333	Fox $925,000
Rykov $925,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Buyouts

• Kevin Shattenkirk: $6,083,333
• Dan Girardi: $1,111,111
• Ryan Spooner: $300,000

(Gettinger and Elmer are placeholders)

Interesting, good work.

I guess the issue for that group becomes Georgiev and rookie bonus overages. Also its hard to predict how much DeAngelo will get. No way would I deal Georgy if he has another great year.

Also one point, if we do in fact have that cap space, is if it wouldn't be better asset management to trade Kreider for a nice deadline return and then look into a 2nd line center in free agency, like Granlund.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I think the thing to do on that roster, if you need to add space, is to buyout one of Staal or Smith. You're going to save $2m or $1.5m on the cap next year and the 2nd year hit is ~$1m or ~$800k.

You guys are much better at the cap stuff than I am but I thought Staal, Smith and Lundqvist all come off the books after next season which frees up a ton of cash? Maybe Buch gets you a that 2C everyone is freaking out about or tweenish 2nd/3rd line guy who plays physical but has some skill. And I agree with you, I don't go any longer than 5 years on a Kreider deal.

 

[Tawnos]

Interesting, good work.

I guess the issue for that group becomes Georgiev and rookie bonus overages. Also its hard to predict how much DeAngelo will get. No way would I deal Georgy if he has another great year.

Also one point, if we do in fact have that cap space, is if it wouldn't be better asset management to trade Kreider for a nice deadline return and then look into a 2nd line center in free agency, like Granlund.

I saw Granlund there too. It really depends on where things stand regarding our centers by the time we get to that point. There's nothing to say by the 20-, 40- or 60-game mark that one of our guys doesn't establish himself.

Lots of variables going forward. I thought about that thing with DeAngelo too... that it's not out of the realm of possibility that he deserves a $5m+ contract.

 

[Fitzy]

I saw Granlund there too. It really depends on where things stand regarding our centers by the time we get to that point. There's nothing to say by the 20-, 40- or 60-game mark that one of our guys doesn't establish himself.

Lots of variables going forward. I thought about that thing with DeAngelo too... that it's not out of the realm of possibility that he deserves a $5m+ contract.

Especially considering 3.25 would likely be a bridge- when if he really shines you have an opportunity to get him locked up long term on a beneficial RFA aided deal.

You could imagine if he gets 45+ this year that they might see 8 x 5 as preferable to 2 x 3.25. That would take him through his prime to age 32. I know people on here have really hated NYRs propensity for bridge deals.

 

[charliemurphy]

But you're moving him, without a replacement, as the team is gearing up to make a run. I wouldn't sign him to a 7 year deal. I'd do everything I could to get him to sign a 5 year deal. With the way he trains, I have no concerns about him falling off a cliff in the next 5.5 years.

How much do you think that costs per season?... while knowing he will eventually become a 3rd liner.

 

[Tawnos]

You guys are much better at the cap stuff than I am but I thought Staal, Smith and Lundqvist all come off the books after next season which frees up a ton of cash? Maybe Buch gets you a that 2C everyone is freaking out about or tweenish 2nd/3rd line guy who plays physical but has some skill. And I agree with you, I don't go any longer than 5 years on a Kreider deal.

Those guys have one more year on their deals AFTER this one. And just as an example... if you buy out Staal, you save $2.13m on the cap next year. The second year of the buyout costs $1.07m. The whole thing can be looked at as trading savings for next year in exchange for reducing your savings the year after. Basically, if you don't buy out Staal, his contract expiring opens up $5.7m on the 21-22 cap. If you do buy him out, that amount is $4.63m instead.

A similar thought process applies to Smith.

 

[Edge]

The lineup below leaves us with $1.5m on an $83.5m cap. I depends on how much we can get Georgiev under contract for... or maybe we trade him.

Panarin $11,642,857	Zibanejad $5,350,000	Buchnevich $3,250,000
Kreider $7,000,000	Chytil $894,166	Kakko $925,000
Lemieux $2,250,000	Andersson $894,166	Kravtsov $925,000
Smith $4,350,000	Howden $863,333	Gettinger $730,000
Elmer $809,166

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Staal $5,700,000	Trouba $8,000,000	Lundqvist $8,500,000
Skjei $5,250,000	Deangelo $3,500,000	Shesterkin $925,000
Hájek $833,333	Fox $925,000
Rykov $925,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Buyouts

• Kevin Shattenkirk: $6,083,333
• Dan Girardi: $1,111,111
• Ryan Spooner: $300,000

(Gettinger and Elmer are placeholders)

Eh, I have some concerns with that lineup, especially the closer to the bottom we get. I feel like we're going to need more from that fourth line in 2020-21, and that lineup also depends on several guys taking a big enough leap to assume regular roles at center --- which means raises in 2021-22. Contacts coming off will help with that, but you find yourself right back in the same scenario with flexibility. And that's a lot of hoping that everything falls into place, which is usually where they don't, and without factoring in movement clauses or that the timeline would then put us into negotiations with other guys on that roster.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

How much do you think that costs per season?... while knowing he will eventually become a 3rd liner.

6.5/7 per. Who's pushing him down to the 3rd line? Kakko, Kravtsov and Buch are all RWs.

 

[Tawnos]

Eh, I have some concerns with that lineup, especially the closer to the bottom we get. I feel like we're going to need more from that fourth line in 2020-21, and that lineup also depends on several guys taking a big enough leap to assume regular roles at center --- which means raises in 2021-22. And that's a lot of hoping that everything falls into place, which is usually where they don't.

Man, how many times are you going to mention "not everything is going to fall into place"? You seemingly missed the point of that post, anyway.

Like I said, Gettinger and Elmer were placeholders there. We can get better quality players for those cap hits.

I'm not concerned in the slightest about giving out raises in 21-22. If that roster is a thing, we have nearly $20m coming off the books the next year.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I think the thing to do on that roster, if you need to add space, is to buyout one of Staal or Smith. You're going to save $2m or $1.5m on the cap next year and the 2nd year hit is ~$1m or ~$800k.

Attaching an asset to trade one of them, Smith moreso than Staal shouldn't be out of the question, especially after Smith's bonus gets paid. Probably wouldn't be a terrible cost.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Eh, I have some concerns with that lineup, especially the closer to the bottom we get. I feel like we're going to need more from that fourth line in 2020-21, and that lineup also depends on several guys taking a big enough leap to assume regular roles at center --- which means raises in 2021-22. And that's a lot of hoping that everything falls into place, which is usually where they don't.

So the alternative is to trade a top 6 wing for a late first round pick or prospect who you hope will turn into him in 3-5 years or overpaying through free agency. Is there a LW in our system who could replace him? This is my point, I understand patience but I feel like a lot of people here are waiting for the stars to magically align, which they almost never do.

 

[Tawnos]

Attaching an asset to trade one of them, Smith moreso than Staal shouldn't be out of the question, especially after Smith's bonus gets paid. Probably wouldn't be a terrible cost.

That would be preferable, but as we've seen... it's not always possible.

 

[East Coast Bias]

That is an interesting point considering you have only been around since Tuesday.

Rangersfansince10/08

 

[TheTakedown]

Offer Kreider the Pacioretty contract and see what happens. We should have the space for him with that cap hit for the 4 years, but if they would need to make a move they could based on term.

Otherwise, I'm not committing more than the 4 years to him. Move him at the deadline or near it for a similar package that Hayes got us. Could use that money in FA if we are looking for a 2C still. Shift Chytil to be a winger at that point. Some center options out there to fill in that role come 7/1. Haula and Granlund would be the targets at that point.

$7M * 5Y is the most I can see. That would be the JVR Contract